$25,000 EV?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions $25,000 EV?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions $25,000 EV?

  • $25,000 EV?

     seth feldman updated 3 weeks, 6 days ago 22 Members · 47 Posts
  • Dustin Hieb

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 2:59 pm

    July 1 2022 Chevy offering 2023 Chevy Bolt EV For $26,595 starting. Does that change anyone’s mind on getting that Aptera? Being able to hold passengers. Rated 259 miles.

    I believe it is coming down to crunch time for Aptera to get vehicles on the road. What does everyone else think?

  • Cameron Eisner

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    It definitely put it back on my list, but it charges so slow… id still prefer aptera, but seeing prices come down is excellent progress

    • Dustin Hieb

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 9:06 am

      Just to play devils advocate Chevy bolt dc charges at 50kwh and by looks of the battery set up the Aptera my be set at the limit of 50kwh as well. The big difference in saying that Aperta is more efficient.

  • Michael Root

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 3:35 pm

    I own a 2018 Bolt I bought for 26k with a brand new battery due to the recall and with low mileage. So the prospect of a 2023 for about the same price gives me some buyers remorse even though my 2018 is just like a brand new car. All the dealers I talked to didn’t have any Bolts for less than 35k and one dealer added in blatant markup to make the out the door price of an LT 40k and wanted 50k for an EUV.

    On a full charge, I get 293 miles to runout. Of course, you shouldn’t do that. I limit the charge to about 87% and we have yet to run it down to 20%. Chevy says the battery should last 300-400 thousand miles if treated this way.

    It seats 5, doesn’t look weird and delivers most of the electric driving pleasure and fuel savings of a Model 3, which costs twice as much.

    We drive 100-150 miles a day and topping off with a level 2 charger takes a couple hours. I would not buy the car without the DC fast charge feature which will provide a 100% charge in about 90 minutes. I drove the car cross country from Nebraska to southern Florida and found fast charging stations all along the way.

    So yeah – you have to wonder about the viability of this strange, but wonderful car compared to an everyday, practical workhorse like the Bolt.

  • Markus Schmid

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 4:25 pm

    No, a less efficiend vehicle for the same price as the Aptera wouldn’t change my mind, because:

    • it would be more expensive to power it (even without electricity prices going up, which they will in the next years),
    • I only need 1 or max. 2 seats anyway, and last but not least because
    • I absolutely love the Aptera’s aerodynamic shape (I most likely already would have bought it 30 years ago if it had been available – for that price that is).
  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    June 4, 2022 at 4:25 pm

    No one vehicles fits all needs…

    I need the anxiety free 600 miles range or at a minimum the 400 mi Aptera range

    Yeah…I am one that likes the Aptera look

    Didn’t Chevy exceed their sales allowance for the full $7500 credit “ if you qualify”?

    I trust the Aptera will be “ our go to first choice EV” in “ our” EV household ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    They say when you go electric with your vehicle… there is no going back:)

    Enjoy your choice!

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 6:02 am

      Yes, I believe the tax credit was limited to the first 250,000 production vehicles, so due to Chevy’s ability to meet demand, that has now expired.

      Yes, after experiencing the quiet, smooth 0-60 in 6 seconds torque of an EV, you’ll not like a gas vehicle anymore. Not as much, anyway.

      We love our Bolt and are not in the least concerned about safety issues, which were way overblown, or strange conspiracy theories about automakers.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 6:15 am

      You will be just as range anxious at 600 miles as you would be at 300.

      The source of EV range anxiety is charger availability and charge time, not miles.

  • Dustin Hieb

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 6:10 pm

    I myself have reserved the 400 mile with full solar, three wheel drive, autopilot, and tent.

    Just wanted to see what people’s ideas are hearing this.

    To me looks better chances prices won’t go up to be competitive with the market.

  • Dennis Swaney

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 8:03 pm

    I have refused to buy any North American built vehicles for the last 40 years – all cars since then have been built in either Germany or Japan. The Aptera has caused me the make an exception, but if it was being made by GM, Ford, Chrysler, or any US plant of a non-US manufacturer, I would not have looked at it. I wouldn’t take a Bolt if they were handing them out for free.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 4, 2022 at 8:13 pm

      And what country might you be from?

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 1:07 pm

        These United States! Over the last 50 years, I’ve bought: a new Ford (Mercury) Capri built in Germany, no problems; a new Datsun B210 built in Japan, no problems; a new Ford Mustang built in USA, so many build problems it took the dealer 6 weeks to correct them all; a new VW Jetta built in Germany, no problems; a new VW Rabbit built in USA, many problems such as bolts falling out of the shock mounts; a new VW Jetta built in Germany, no problems; a new Mazda Miata built in Japan, no problems; a new Toyota Prius built in Japan, no problems. We sold the Prius last month after 18 years of happy ownership, and I still have the Miata 33 years after I bought it. Actually, it seems the main problem with the USA built cars was UAW workers.

    • Philip Sandiford

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:34 am

      The forgotten factor: the American automobile manufacturer model is consumer hostile. Tesla caught my eye 12 years ago because it looked like a way to move away from dealerships, markups, and 100-years of tacking solutions onto one’s Jenga tower.

      Tesla seemed to offer a clean slate. Direct sales. Simplified design. Less maintenance. Three years ago Tesla offered updates to the original Roadster battery design, a vehicle they hadn’t sold in nearly 10 years. Teslas seemed ready to move the personal transportation industry out of the “Big Three” stagnant mess. These designs have moved the puck down the ice toward the goal of personal transportation with minimum environmental impact. But large companies are still slow, ponderous, and wasteful polluters.

      But Tesla (or Bolt) is still a car. I do not wish to buy into the service center model and planned obsolescence of the Big Three. Nor do I wish to reward the antics Tesla have performed of late. I welcome something different and hope it takes root. Anyway, I favor the Aptera over Tesla for my own reasons – including that it seems more friendly for the owner wrench.

      While Aptera still requires the resources used in manufacturing, there is a plug for a backup source of power; not primary. It is both closer to a clean slate and also closer to the goal.

      • Joel Smith

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 10:01 am

        Well said Philip!

        Current best tech should not have to mean non-existent or arcane maintenance, design for obsolescence and all the other ways modem unfettered capitalism maximizes consumption and profitability at the expense of everything that should be important. Aptera’s stated aspirations contrary to that more typical paradigm is refreshing, needful and to be vigorously encouraged.

        On the other hand, the current two seat, love-it-or-hate it body style is unambiguously a niche vehicle well suited to a limited group of buyers. Folks still need (or think they need) family cars, SUVs and pickups. Since it is going to be years before Aptera offers vehicles more appealing to those needs, those folks gotta find what pushes enough of the right buttons for their current needs. Easy to see how a remarkably inexpensive Bolt might do that for a lot of people. If that gets more folks into an EV (and doesn’t ultimately degrade their opinion of EVs via further fiascos) then that’s a good bit of progress in the right direction.

        • Michael Root

          Member
          June 5, 2022 at 11:36 am

          I sincerely hope that Aptera and every other small and large EV manufacturer achieves every one of the goals and avoids all the pitfalls you just outlined, especially unfettered capitalism.

          While we are on the leading edge of the EV revolution, we are also about to face the gross environmental consequences of lithium-ion batteries and PV panels. There is no practical recycling method I know of for either. Both spent devices are going to be piled a mile high in a few years or we will develop new science. I hope it’s the latter.

          • Philip Sandiford

            Member
            June 5, 2022 at 12:40 pm

            True that, Michael. Unfortunately reality seems to dictate there are no free lunches. But reducing consumption and decentralized impact is always good.

        • Philip Sandiford

          Member
          June 5, 2022 at 12:30 pm

          Thank you, Joel. I agree this isn’t a solution for most people. It is exactly what I am looking for and have been for a long time. I have my ICE on ice in the garage for the odd 1000 mile trip, but the Aptera is perfect for my 95% driving needs.

          It is a direction I’d like to see become viable in the marketplace.

  • Qiang Fu

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 8:37 pm

    I reserved a 60kwh version, of which a direct competitor is a sub $40k EV capable of 500+ miles, not the Bolt.

    This will be my road trip car. I usually drive no more than 500 miles per day, therefore I don’t have to worry about planning trips around DC chargers. The only consideration is whether destination/hotel charger is available.

  • Jeffrey Renz

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 11:48 pm

    259 mile range, according to Kelly BB; 247 mile range according to Chevrolet. The MSRP is $28,195. Aptera will be far more competitive but we may risk losing buyers to Chevy as production ramps up. Marketing needs to emphasize that Aptera is worth the wait.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 6:10 am

      Those are the EPA range figures, but my 64kwh battery delivers 293 miles anytime I want it, and I have done just that several times

      I assume the Aptera range figures will be EPA reduced the same way.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 4:52 am

    For me it’s a matter of trust. How consistently the big three have put substandard cars in the hands of the people that they rather do pay outs for fatalities than build their cars safe. I’ve bought the M3 and look forward to my Aptera Basic car with maybe a solar upgrade (still deciding)

    You couldn’t give me a Chevy anything. I’d be afraid of fires, ignitions or some other hidden mistake before my car would be the death of me.

    Aptera suits my current needs. I like their openness, their design, the right to repair, style, safety minded, efficiency and willingness to save the resources or at least limit them even though it’s not my cup of tea. I haven’t seen the Bolts crash testing but I’ll stick with the composite body either way.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 6:39 am

    At that price it might be worth leasing a Bolt until my Aptera is ready. Thanks for the updated info, I haven’t looked at a Bolt in quite a while.

  • Joshua Caldwell

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 6:39 am

    This doesn’t change my mind on the Aptera as I strongly prefer it and it will be several more years before I ACTUALLY need another vehicle. However, being able to support my 100mi/day commute and allowing the battery to become 50% degraded over the years + never charging over 80% makes 250mi the minimum rated vehicle I would ever consider. As for it being cheap, I only buy cheap. Why waste money when it can be otherwise invested and make for a good retirement when I expect Social Security to go the way of the dodo by the time I reach an age to depend on it like my grandparents and parents currently do?

  • Che McKittrick

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 6:41 am

    If it were really starting at $25k then I’d give it serious consideration but Chevy’s promotional material says it will start over $28k.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 6:43 am

    For someone looking for a commuter car that they plan to own for a very long time the new pricing makes the Bolt a viable choice. The reputational damage to the Bolt is irrepairable, it will always be known as the electric Pinto, so you should expect resale prices to be terrible. However if your plan is to drive it for 100,000 miles then that would be less important. The other problem with the Bolt is it’s awful DC charging speeds. The Bolt has enough range that that it ought to be capable of road tripping, unfortunately it’s charging speeds would make roadtrips painful. As a local area car it would be just fine and at the new price it’s has a lot of advantages over the 250 mile Aptera which has a similar price and range. The Bolt has a back seat, Android Auto and Apple Car Play and a massive dealer network for service. I’ve reserved the 600 mile Aptera because almost all of my driving are road trips and which the 600 mile Aptera can do without charging but the Bolt would be terrible at. But if you are looking for a commuter car a $26K Bolt is a hell of a deal. BTW don’t expect these to be around for long. GM must be losing their shirt at that price, just as soon as the Equinox becomes available I’d expect that they’ll kill the Bolt.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:40 am

      I would disagree with those assertions. For better or worse, Chevy stepped up and replaced every single battery they produced for the Bolt, 2016 through 2021. I doubt you’d see a tiny Aptera-like company able to do that. If GM can make such a production blunder, Aptera is even more likely to do the same and is probably not equipped financially to deal with it if it happens. So I’m unconcerned about any comments about the Bolts reputation. My 2018 has the same manufacture’s warranty as a brand new car, as well as the newer LG 64kwh chemistry and updated active cooling.

      I do plan to drive the wheels off it and I believe it will give a 300-400 thousand mile lifespan.

      What slow charging? I drove this car cross country from western Nebraska to southern Florida stopping every 250-290 miles to DC charge to 100% in about an hour average.

      As for resale value, I shopped the hell out of this car for two months and found no evidence of any decline in ordinary depreciation. It is actually hard to even find one at a decent price.

      I like the Aptera. I think it’s got a lot of good ideas, but it is an early adopter proposition.

      Just by the way, I didn’t start this topic, but the truth about the only $25k EV worth buying should be known.

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 8:02 am

    There is no question that a $26,000 EV with 250 mi range that seats five is a bargain, especially for families, if you can get one for that price through a dealer. Probably not so as the dealer will put a premium on it to get to around 40K. My guess, the Bolt is being sold at this price to increase the GM EV market share and sales stats which are pretty poor.

    I have driven a friends volt shortly after he purchased it about a year ago before they stoped production. He has two younger children. Its range and charging time are not an issue with his family at all. I enjoyed it, especially the one pedal driving. (I drive a Tesla Model 3 as most of my family do) I would not trade my Model 3 for one but would not find it objectionable for a daily driver and for short trips.

    More and more of these lower priced, family oriented EVs will come on the market as this is the growth segment. The luxury and upper middle tier market will be more than saturated in 2023/4 with new SUV type EVs. These lower cost EVs will become competitors for the current version of Aptera and the coming four wheel 4/5 passenger version is released.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 8:23 am

      The new price figure is not the real bargain. The real bargain is to buy the Bolt used with the new battery and warranty at the right price, which seems to be around $25k. This bargain will not be around for long because the batteries will become used and I believe resale prices will go up from here due to the strong demand that will occur once customers figure the Bolt out.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 8:26 am

        So….A guy in my combo complex in FL just bought a used 2018 Bolt with the new battery and the cost after the dealer markup, $40,500. Once again, no research to back assertion.

        • Michael Root

          Member
          June 5, 2022 at 9:41 am

          Your guy is an idiot. He could have bought a brand new Premier for that. As for research, I actually bought my 2018 for $26,090. How’s that for research?

          • Jonah Jorgenson

            Member
            June 5, 2022 at 12:06 pm

            Is this a case of you have to be one to recognize one? Seems so! He certainly is not an idiot.

            You are so superficial and reactive, much like the behavior of a young person without much life experience. Rather than display your immaturity, I would suggest you monitor the posts on this forum and learn meaningful information from others with background and experience in the issues posted here, and the correct way for a mature and thoughtful person to post AFTER doing some thorough and deep research.

            Your reactive and opinionated posts are quite frankly irritating to me. There are many social media opportunities other than the Aptera forum for you to rant on.

            • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: removed format markings
            • Michael Root

              Member
              June 5, 2022 at 12:35 pm

              If he paid $40k for a 2018 Bolt, then he is a gullible fool, using kinder terms than idiot.

              I guess you are insulting me eloquently, I can respect that, but won’t waste my time responding to it.

              If I am pressing your buttons then I claim success and deem you an easy target lol.

    • Dustin Hieb

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 9:13 am
  • Nolan Parsons

    Member
    June 6, 2022 at 8:14 am

    <div>Aptera has some time before the bolt gets to that price, its supposed to be that way for 2023 unless I’m mistaken and dealerships will first want to be pushing out the 32K+ inventory to the customer that either don’t know about the coming price reduction or don’t want to wait in these times rising gas prices.</div><div>

    I’d rather hold out for the aptera with a full solar pack. I live in the SE U.S. and my commute is low enough that I could potentially never need to plug it into a charger, just give it a weekly day or two off and give my mazda some exercise.

    </div>

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 6, 2022 at 9:00 am

      Given ev demand dealers will slap on huge “Becuase they can” fees anyway. A true $25000 ev isn’t really possible unless it can be made in enough numbers to actually meet demand or is direct sales.

      • M T

        Member
        June 6, 2022 at 9:30 am

        I have not seen it mentioned, but I believe Bolt prices will tank (are tanking) given the new Ulthium battery vehicles in the pipe. Difference being better battery tech and much faster charging IIRC. Bolts left on the line will have to be heavily discounted. The new ulthium based Equinox is supposed to start at 30k. I would not be surprised to see brand new Bolt EUVs at 22k or less once they are out.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          June 6, 2022 at 9:51 am

          They’ll discontinue the Bolt when the Equinox starts to ship. They are already losing their shirts at $26K, at $22K they’ll be losing their pants as well. With the Equinox they’ll have a competitive EV that they won’t have to pay people to take.

          • M T

            Member
            June 7, 2022 at 10:34 am

            Agreed, and the 22k guestimate figure was for “existing vehicles on lots”, if those still exist anywhere.

  • Michael Kahlow

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 11:17 am

    Doesn’t change my mind. I’ve already got a 2022 Chevy Bolt, and I’m really happy with it. My experience with that is one of the reasons that I’ve reserved an Aptera. I’m hoping that in two years my garage has an Aptera parked next to the Bolt.

    Why the Aptera? I’d like a car with a little longer range, and/or which charges a little faster. (Solar isn’t an issue for me, my driveway is heavily shaded and I live in the not-so-sunny-North.) The Bolt only charges at 55 kW, which means I’ve got 2-1/2 hours of driving, one hour of charging. Not great for road trips.

    We’d considered the Tesla Model 3, but in the end decided that we really didn’t want to encourage Elon Musk. 😉

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      June 7, 2022 at 1:42 pm

      Didn’t GM recently say to NOT park the BOLT inside?

      • Michael Root

        Member
        June 7, 2022 at 2:48 pm

        Only if your battery hasn’t been replaced.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 7, 2022 at 2:52 pm

      Correct if I’m wrong, but I think the Aptera charges at the same rate as the Bolt.

      • This reply was modified 4 weeks, 1 day ago by  Michael Root.
      • Cameron Eisner

        Member
        June 7, 2022 at 5:42 pm

        The answer is we don’t technically know yet. We’re assuming the aptera will charge at a peak of 50kw, which is less than the bolts 55kw. But 50kw on the aptera is equivalent to 500mi/hr, where in the bolt it’s much less than that. Probably more like 150mi/hr.

      • Michael Kahlow

        Member
        June 8, 2022 at 12:49 pm

        What Cameron says above, assuming Aptera charges at 50kW. The Bolt charges at 55kW, which would be more like 200 miles (total battery capacity of 60 kW). So, yes, the same rate given what we know, in kW. But in miles per minute charged (as opposed to joules per second), the Aptera would be a little more than 2x faster.

        Put another way – the 600 mile Aptera and the 240 mile 2022 Bolt both have the same battery size – 60 kW-hr. The same charge time will get 600 mi vs. 240 mi.

  • Fanfare 100

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    I have rented the Chevy Bolt several times from a rental company called “Turo” , and each time I enjoyed it very much.

    But what put me off about any Chevy is the fact that, for a couple of years, Chevy Bolt customers were being ghosted by GM about their problems. That left a very bad taste in my mouth and I would hate for that to repeat itself again after they set that horrible reputation before they decided to make good, it only after the customers became very publicly irate about how they were being treated.

  • seth feldman

    Member
    June 9, 2022 at 9:12 pm

    If price was the only concern something like the Kandi k cars below $10k before rebates would be my first choice.

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