FWD and AWD comparison and info

[daniel-crotty]

Recent posts raised another point that I keep forgetting to ask.

Say you want to drive on the interstate at 70mpg. 2wd is going to be an X energy drain. Throw on another motor and that goes up. But now you are driving with 3 instead of two, so one would think that all 3 have to work less.

So, are you actually taking that big energy hit? I am guessing that there is more drain, but it may not be as big as people are thinking. Ignore the “more weight” or address it. There has also some talk about having 3wd and having the 3d turned off.

Anyone know? humm… may be a new post for this. People may never see this or replies.

[Mike-Mars]

I presume that the efficiency hit is mainly due to the friction of the motor. I don’t think there a way around that other than installing a clutch between the wheel and the motor, which a) would be expensive and add to maintenance costs, and b) make it impossible to use in-wheel motors.

[raymond-nettleton]

1.) With the weight distribution and torque vectoring the 2WD should be pretty good for ice and an inch or 2 of snow. Adding the 3rd drive motor won’t improve performance by 33%. Maybe 15%

2.) Deep snow is going to suck for either. The wheel pants are going to take a beating with ice chunks and lane build up. The center wheel will be ploughing snow regardless.

3.) The tesla semi actually has a clutch to prevent the unused motors from spinning. This is even more energy saving than free wheeling.

4.) I suspect any range it is 90% due to additional clearance, not AWD.

[TxAg82]

With all of the discussion of right to repair would it also be possible to change to AWD with a parts kit or salvage from a damaged car?

[george-hughes]

I’m hoping someone associated with Aptera will figure out that if you have to do things differently with services including insurance and especially recycling if you have a multi-generational vehicle.

Knowing the modular nature of Aptera (and encouraging it as well), recycling and recertification of components captured from the waste-stream would ease the availability of parts.

That said, this might be a way for an ad-hoc Aptera related business to blossom. The idea is that folks with an interest in being parts/recyclers of Aptera establish and join an Aptera parts clearinghouse. The great news is that Aptera, while it will likely take off quickly, has the advantage of a clean slate meaning there are zero wrecked Aptera in any junk yard anywhere. Statistically, the attrition rate (vehicles that are removed from service) will follow distribution.

This suggests the development of Aptera EV recycling and repair centers that if they somehow gain official status of recyclers for the brand, would also seek to recertify and reuse the various components

…Or is the insurance company auction model the best way to handle this particular waste stream?

[paul-hackett]

Let me pose the question again. Is it possible and cost efficient and therefore “really” possible to design the Aptera “AWD”/3wd” version to select “2wd or AWD”? And if it is possible would it be possible to electronically accomplish the same affect as locking differentials when in AWD/3wd? Someone early in this post mentioned living in Colorado, as I do, where my 12% grade driveway at 7,100′ at least 6 times a year gets hammered and I mean beyond a foot of snow. I plow it with a F250 with front and rear differential lockers, and I’ve plowed through more than 24″ up hill with only the rear differential locked. But my question goes to the following point: even after I plow I typically have to wait a day or two before I can drive my front wheel drive Prius on my driveway or the roads. I just think it would be great if I could drive my Aptera up the driveway after I’ve plowed it but there’s still snow falling and there’s an inch or two on the roads between the county plows, and it would seam to me that if there was an electronic “selector” that would allow me to tell the electric wheel motors to continue to turn and in effect turn off “traction control” that would be huge and allow the ability to drive on “plowed” snowy road and judiciously get me up my driveway. And I should add as I’m sure many on this forum know, even in a 23 year old F250, I have the ability to electronically switch on the fly from 2wd to 4wd; as long as I have the front hubs manually locked. 🙂

• This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by  Paul Hackett.

[joshua-rosen]

The only way to disconnect a permanent magnet motor is with a clutch. How would you implement a clutch with an in wheel motor? It sounds complicated assuming it’s possible at all. They chose permanent magnet motors because they are more efficient than induction motors, the standard motor arrangement is 2WD so those motors have to be permanent magnet. There is only one motor in back, replacing it with an induction motor is theoretically possible but then you would add supply chain complexities by having two different motors. Better to keep manufacturing as simple as possible and pay the efficiency penalty for having a third motor in AWD.

[paul-hackett]

Thanks Josh, I was just curious if it was feasible at this time. I’m happy to stick with AWDx3 and a relatively small loss in overall efficiency with the AWD option.

[craig-graber]

Is there an advantage selecting All wheel Drive over just front wheel drive if one motor fails, will the vehicle be able to limp home on either just the front or just the rear motor(s)?

[robert-wakeman]

I have ordered a 250ml AWD in black no rear solar panel. I rarely take trips more than 150ml and I like stopping every 2 hours or so. The 250ml is the most efficient. No amount of not wanting to have to stop for charging will change that. I think the black looks great very dark green I would like even more.not willing to wait for that. I Want to see out the back. And I do think that the 3 motor has the potential to be as efficient and maybe even more efficient Than the 2 motor.

[ROMAD]

Out of curiosity, what are they giving you as a projected delivery year?

[harry-parker]

My understanding is that they are not currently displaying a delivery time for any variant of Aptera except for the Launch Edition. Delivery time is “TBD”, totally dependent on funding and success of their IPO.

[robert-wakeman]

Was just updated to 2025 with the off road package I can only hope I would think very late 25.

[wingsounds13]

My delivery date recently changed from TBD to 2025. I strongly suspect that this delivery date estimate is base solely on the reservation number with no consideration for options chosen, other than prioritizing Launch Edition reservations. I am saying this because I have reserved a 600 mile, 2WD, full solar vehicle. I would be surprised if the 600 mile goes into production less than a year after initial production begins. My reservation is also in the 32,000 range, and I would not expect that number to be reached until well into the second year of production.

I am curious as to why my estimated delivery date has changed from TBD to 2025. Does this mean that they now have a much better idea of start of production, initial rate and rate of ramp up? Have they recently gotten a large investor? I have seen no word from them in this yet.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  J.P. Morere.

[Mike-Mars]

That’s interesting. Maybe they think they can introduce the 600 mile battery relatively early in the production plan.

[ROMAD]

Well, since they have stated many times (most recently at the end of February 2024) that it would be a minimum of 9 months AFTER they acquire the funding needed for production to start, the earliest date now would seem to be in January 2025. But that assumes they receive said funding within the next 21 days. Back when production was estimated to start in mid-2024, my LE delivery date was slipped to 2025. With them not being able to start production in the next 3 – 4 months, I expect my LE delivery date to be slipped to 2026 soon.

[david-marlow]

That requirement is for high volume production, not low volume production, that they have said could start in the third quarter.

[ROMAD]

Isn’t that just for the accelerator vehicles? Even then, it’ll take them between 104 and 207 production days, so figure at 5 production days/week that is 21 to 42 weeks or 5 to 10 months. Q3 is 1 July to 30 Sep so depending on the start date, the accelerator vehicle deliveries could finish in November 2024 at the earliest or July 2025 at the latest.

My corrected queue number is between 16,000 and 17,000 but will hopefully be much sooner as I changed to the LE over a year ago. Unfortunately Aptera refuses to tell me my LE queue position so all I know is there are at least 2,000 Accelerators ahead of me.

[JRWiley]

From our hovering little Chat Bot, Luna: “The 2-wheel drive is more efficient than the 3-wheel drive due to the weight difference caused by the extra motor in the 3-wheel drive configuration.” I think I might be remembering CA stating it was a 10% hit on efficiency.

[robert-wakeman]

This is true. But three motor drive is new and they are developing the control for them right now from what I understand. The ability to power one, two, or three. motors is exciting. I think what they are doing is going to surprise everyone even themselves. Oh the possibility’s! I’m excited.

[Mike-Mars]

ChrisA has said that the 2WD is more efficient than the 3WD, for the reasons already mentioned in this thread.