Lightyear EV

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News Lightyear EV

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News Lightyear EV

  • Lightyear EV

  • John Malcom

    Member
    August 12, 2021 at 7:30 am

    2022 competitor to Aptera at $175,000 per vehicle. Claims 40 mi from onboard solar charging.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/175-000-sedan-uses-solar-120900347.html

    Can get 6+ Apteras for the price of one of these!

  • Eric Rucker

    Member
    August 13, 2021 at 8:05 pm

    My take is that there’s plenty of room for both in the market.

    Lightyear One has a more conventional layout and shape, five seats instead of two, about as much cargo space with the rear seat up and ~2.4x the cargo space with the rear seat down, and is narrower (extremely important for some markets, unimportant for others).

    Aptera has higher efficiency and therefore longer range on the same battery or the same range on a smaller battery, a larger battery option (Lightyear One is 60 kWh only, Aptera has a 100 kWh option), lower cost, but with the downside of only 2 seats, more controversial styling, and the “if you don’t hit it with the outer wheel, you hit it with the inner wheel” problem with hitting bumps inherent to a three-wheeler.

  • Dean McManis

    Member
    August 14, 2021 at 1:07 am

    Check out my article about the Aptera, Lightyear One and Sono Sion solar EVs.

    https://www.torquenews.com/5474/aptera-solar-plug-ev-breakthrough

  • Joshua Vance Vance

    Member
    August 17, 2021 at 7:44 pm

    Can the Lightyear even be called a competitor at that price range?

    • Gabriel Kemeny

      Moderator
      August 18, 2021 at 6:39 am

      Only in the sense that it’s an sEV.

    • Dean McManis

      Member
      August 18, 2021 at 8:49 am

      Yeah, it’s really only in comparison because there are so few EVs that are efficient enough for the addition of solar power to make any real difference in usable driving range.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    August 18, 2021 at 8:15 am

    I don’t see how there can be any market for the Lightyear. $175K is more than a fully tricked out EQS and if were in the mood to spend that kind of money on a car it would be an EQS not a Lightyear. Solar panels on a car are just a gimmick, they serve no useful purpose. Aptera is using that gimmick also but it’s real appeal is it’s efficiency which translates to very long range at a reasonable cost. Solar panels belong on the roofs of houses not on the roofs of cars. A house roof has much more area, weight doesn’t matter and it never goes through a car wash. More importantly you know how much sun it’s going to get. A car parked in a garage gets no sunlight, under a tree very little and even in the best of circumstances in most of the country there just isn’t enough sun to make it worthwhile. Aptera’s 40 mile number is at their home base of San Diego, in Massachusetts where I live the best case scenario is only 20 miles and that assumes you can park it out in the open, we have lots of trees which greatly reduces the sun available to the roof of a car.

    • Dean McManis

      Member
      August 18, 2021 at 9:10 am

      VW sold 200 of their $150K XL1 diesel plug in hybrids before the Dieselgate scandal. Solar power in general is not a working solution for many areas. But in areas like mine (Northern CA) the Aptera’s solar power assist could add up to being an actual, usable benefit over time. It is especially appealing to have the Aptera recharge itself just sitting in the sunny parking lot all day while I’m at work.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        August 18, 2021 at 10:37 am

        A 600 mile AWD Aptera is $40K vs $175K for the Lightyear. For that you can do virtually all day trips without charging. In California you could very well get a usable amount of electricity for the car’s solar cells but it won’t be saving you much money. My electricity rates are now up to 25 cents/KWh so it will cost me 2.5 cents per mile to power it from the wall. You have off peak rates in CA, which we don’t have, that will allow you to spend even less. Solar panels on your house are also a pretty good option where you live, you not only get twice the annual sunlight as I do but you don’t have to deal with snow covering them in the winter. Solar panels on your house will last much longer than the car and they will be able to power your house as well as your car.

        • Dean McManis

          Member
          August 18, 2021 at 12:06 pm

          All good points Joshua. Aptera’s solar capability is definitely not a huge monetary benefit. It’s more of a feel-good thing. However I couldn’t justify spending $175K for ANY car, so the Lightyear One is more of an interesting show car/exercise than a realistic car choice. The Aptera’s design, features, capabilities and price are realistic for me, and are a good fit for my driving needs, and fit my ideal of what I want my next car to be and to do.

  • Fanfare 100

    Member
    August 18, 2021 at 12:28 pm

    $175K is nearing the objective price for the $250K round trip to Mars Elon has been talking about.

    I truly would not call this car a “competitor” as these two are in entirely distinct markets with hardly any overlap whatsoever. I don;t believe neither car manufacturer has to worry about the other cutting into their respective markets. ????

  • Addonis Ryan

    Member
    August 25, 2021 at 1:47 pm

    So true, I’d rather own an Aptera in each color and trim than spend $175.000 on one vehicle. The lightyear looks like a wanna-be Tesla also, while the Aptera paradigm has its own identity.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      August 26, 2021 at 1:08 pm

      Ok the Light Year is only shown as a competitor is it validates Aptera’s approach/claim that 40+ miles of range can be achieved by onboard solar.

      This vehicle will have a market and is relatively cheap as a show or status veicle. Down the street from me is a neighborhood who’s residents pay millions for their status cars. These are cars they drive only occasionally. They are Rolls, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Mclarens, and of course Bugatti’s.

      The Lightyear would just be the “Ford” of this car buying group to show how humble and environmentally aware they are and to discriminate them from their neighbors.

      Lucid is in the same category competing against Tesla

  • Berri Jam

    Member
    August 29, 2021 at 3:18 am

    I have high doubts about LightSpeed’s 45 mile solar recharge claim. You can’t overcome basic math. There’s not that much more panel space they have compared to Aptera, for a $175,000 EV it must weigh a lot lot more than Aptera’s. Good solar panels are yielding about 23%. No way LightSpeed’s panels will produce 45 miles for their heavier cars. I predict it’s a false claim they can’t deliver on.

    • Eric Rucker

      Member
      August 29, 2021 at 5:57 am

      Looks like estimates are 1300 kg – compare to Aptera’s target of 816 kg for the same size 60 kWh pack. However, weight is less important with an EV’s efficiency, as you get some of that energy back under regenerative braking.

      Aerodynamics are what’s far more important, and there, drag coefficient is higher – “under 0.20” versus 0.13 for Aptera. (I’m not about to compare frontal area – I suspect it’s not actually that different, due to Aptera’s being much wider and taller, but the wheels being podded and away from the body.)

      Lightyear One’s charging speed versus efficiency estimates imply about 1000 W of panel, versus 700 W for Aptera. (There may actually be more – I’ve seen some estimates that imply over 1200 W of cells based on their 5 m^2 of area, so it’s quite possible that the curvature of the panels limits insolation and means that you’ll never actually hit a 1200 W peak, and 1000 W is a realistic limit. If that’s the case, Aptera may also be somewhat lower realistic peak.)

      One big thing that accounts for differences in claims, though: Lightyear One is using the WLTP cycle for their claims – the standard in Europe – which typically is easier than the EPA test cycles that I believe Aptera’s claims are based on (I think there are a couple exceptions, where Tesla actually has shorter range on some models WLTP than EPA, but the vast majority of cars have shorter range on EPA than WLTP). It’s fair – and in fact necessary – to use WLTP for a product meant for the European market, but it means their range claims aren’t directly comparable (and WLTP ranges tend to be optimistic).

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    December 16, 2021 at 7:33 am

    Lightyear announces a new solar EV for sale around 2025. So this is a great option similar to the future 4-seat aptera. Probably doesn’t have 600-1000 miles of range though.

    https://electrek.co/2021/12/16/lightyear-announces-34000-solar-electric-car/

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    December 16, 2021 at 9:23 am

    <div>https://insideevs.com/news/555076/lightyear-two-solar-ev-2025/</div><div&gt;

    It’s going to have a small battery. The Lightyear One has a 60KWh battery, the Two will have a “much smaller” battery although the size wasn’t mentioned. So Peter is correct it’s not going to be a 600 mile car but it could be a 300-400 mile vehicle. A 300 mile car in Europe is probably as much as anyone needs given how short their distances are.

    </div>

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    December 16, 2021 at 10:51 am

    Good. Competition validates the general concept of efficiency and solar. With the general EV industry supply constrained for the next ~5-10 years we are in a weird situation were anything remotely reasonable will sell and its about how well a company can take profits and expand to establish its initial market share by 2030. The massive jump from $170k to $35k will be really difficult to achieve for Lightyear while being profitable – perhaps it will just be a rebadged EV primarily made in china. I’d expect them to be 150-200 mile range which is just fine in europe for most.

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      December 16, 2021 at 10:54 am

      True. I guess I shouldn’t feel threatened by it. It’s fantastic for those people who need something that isn’t “too wide for europe”.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    December 16, 2021 at 10:39 pm

    The light year one in the pictures is $170,000. Will be nice if they can bring that price down to $35,000 in 4 years.

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    December 17, 2021 at 12:22 am

    I think the Lightyear Two will be very attractive to those looking for a more normal looking, 4 wheeled solar vehicle and will probably be ok with half the range of an Aptera. The 4 wheeled Aptera will probably be 2025 or later, so for now it looks like Lightyear has an advantage over Aptera for this segment, if only for timing of delivery.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    December 17, 2021 at 9:21 am

    They won’t be head to head for a while. Lightyear is in Europe, if the Two doesn’t come out until 2025 we won’t see it in the US for a couple of years after that if at all. It’s also unlikely that Aptera will make it to Europe before that. The width of the three wheeler is supposedly a problem in Europe and it’s unlikely that Aptera will have a second vehicle before 2025.

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      December 17, 2021 at 11:52 am

      I think it makes great sense for the Aptera to sell here in the US and the Lightyear 2 to sell in Europe. Hopefully they both do great and relieve some of the demand.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    December 17, 2021 at 7:25 pm

    To little to late for a manufacturer that leads with a 170K vehicle. Europe will be flooded with price competitive competitors from Euro and Chinese manufacturers by the time they have a vehicle to release.

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