$50 million dollars or bust !

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions $50 million dollars or bust !

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions $50 million dollars or bust !

  • $50 million dollars or bust !

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 9:19 am

    This is the latest video from Aptera Owners Club. He says Aptera Motors need $50 Million dollars to go into production. If they make the production intent vehicle by December 31, but do not get the $50 Million for production, does that mean Dec 1 is the end of Aptera?

    I hope tech savvy and manufacturing savvy people will comment.

    https://youtu.be/MHIp0Gezpkkhttps://youtu.be/MHIp0Gezpkk

  • Ron Glossin

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 10:06 am

    A couple of thousand from each reservation holder and they have it. I’m in.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  Ron Glossin.
    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 10:51 am

      Perhaps you can be in with my “couple of thousand too”?😁

    • John Voules

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 10:58 am

      A couple $ks from each res holder would definitely do the job. I don’t believe that most people have the means to open their wallets and find they have extra cash waiting to be invested.

      If this latest offering for individual investors reopens the incentive to throw more money at APTERA will need to add a sweetener to the table. I know I’ll get a negative response from most on this forum. Maybe have an investors threshold that will give the investors either added complimentary options or possibly a quicker delivery date. Maybe tie it with the amount of shares needed to be reached for the threshold (perhaps 10,000 shares). Include all the investors that already have shares so it would be easier to reach that threshold. At the same time put a deadline of September date prior to San Diego’s Electronic show.

      Note…I will not be one of those investors, as I am tapped out of my investment funds.

      • DIRK WRIGHT

        Member
        August 17, 2022 at 11:09 am

        I don’t quite understand investing but what are class B shares? Isn’t this directed at qualified investors only? I’m confused about that. I didn’t get an email about this, so I guess I’m not able to invest.

        • John Voules

          Member
          August 17, 2022 at 11:47 am

          Investopedia defines series B investing

          • Series B funding can come from private equity investors, venture capitalists, crowdfunded equity, and credit investments.

          • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  John Voules.
          • DIRK WRIGHT

            Member
            August 17, 2022 at 12:07 pm

            Thanks. I still don’t understand if this new offering is limited to qualified investors.

            • Dan Stevens

              Member
              September 7, 2022 at 12:39 pm

              New offering is open to anyone. No need to be a qualified investor right now.

              What that really means, I think…

              If you make less than $100,000, you can invest up to the lower of $2,000 or 5% of your income.
              If you make over $100,000 (and don’t qualify for accredited), you can invest up to 10%, capped at $100,000 per year.

              On top of that, there are a LOT of rules on how the offering is done, which is why if you read the offering flyer, you will see lots of CYA references to make sure you understand that this is a HUGE gamble, though, in my view, that gamble now is much lower than it was back at the $3 offering and that was less than when it was originally done.

              Only way to think about this type of investment (again, my opinion) is the investment is GONE, worth nothing, consider it wiped out immediately, then, maybe one day, you’ll be very happy. Simply put, the odds are not in your favor, but usually if it pays off, it pays off well.

            • John Voules

              Member
              September 8, 2022 at 9:52 am

              With the gama coming out in 2 days. A preview of the factory floor that hopefully shows some progress towards manufacturing, this to me will show where we are as to the risk of further investing.

              Honestly for me it would have shown more confidence if it was showing share price a bit more than the $10.50 that is now being offered. Maybe 13-$15 would actually make those who already own shares, feel they have made substantially more gains(even though they are technically not there). I do know it is tied with company valuation, so there are limits there, individual investors should look at $10.50 as a pretty good bargain, as long as Sep 10 reveal and factory tour shows that APTERA is making great strides for a timely commitment towards manufacturing. I know that already many have already reinvested, hopefully after the show, money will flow heavily to reach the 50 million mark.

            • Dan Stevens

              Member
              September 8, 2022 at 5:05 pm

              I actually expected $13-$15, but then, the equity markets are harder now, a bit of reality perhaps.

              In addition, they had to set the price BEFORE they were awarded the grant (which technically still hasn’t happened). With the grant and the reopening of being able to apply for the ATVM loans, the overall risk has diminished significantly.

              At the same time, people seem hung up on the $50M number but miss the fact that it actually says more like MORE THAN $50M, and this line has been in everyone of these filings, including those from about $100M ago.

              The $50M is a number on a paper to make a point that with the investment alone, they likely will not succeed, that they will need to continue to raise some additional capital of a significant nature. This should not be surprising to anyone and if the gamma reveal goes well, they lock down a lot of the bigger questions of the design, they put out a believable schedule, they shouldn’t have to much trouble getting the funds they need.

              At the same time, if they don’t have answers for simple things like charging tech choices, service commitments and a good schedule (and how a driver can actually put a cup in the cupholder at 50MPH) with the reveal then I see some headwinds in their future.

              And yes, I know all schedules are optimistic, but they need to show they have made significant progress on the supply chain to make a believer out of a large investor to get them over the finish line. If they haven’t done this, they don’t have a valid schedule.

    • IA -1

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 1:28 pm

      If they offer additional incentives I am in as well. One of the reasons I invested $10,000 is the 5% discount on the Aptera. If they offer an additional 5% I will (and I assume more investors will) invest another $10,000.

  • DIRK WRIGHT

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 11:08 am

    Yeah, it could be. They need massive amounts of money to make all of these vehicles.

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 12:17 pm

    Investopedia also says:

    What Is Series B Funding?

    Series B rounds are all about taking businesses to the next level, past the development stage. Investors help startups get there by expanding market reach. Companies that have gone through seed and Series A funding rounds have already developed substantial user bases and have proven to investors that they are prepared for success on a larger scale. Series B funding is used to grow the company so that it can meet these levels of demand.

    Building a winning product and growing a team requires quality talent acquisition. Bulking up on business development, sales, advertising, tech, support, and employees costs a firm a few pennies.

    How Series B Funding Works

    Companies undergoing a Series B funding round are well-established, and their valuations tend to reflect that; most Series B companies have valuations between around $30 million and $60 million.1

    Series B appears similar to Series A in terms of the processes and key players. Series B is often led by many of the same characters as the earlier round, including a key anchor investor that helps to draw in other investors. The difference with Series B is the addition of a new wave of other venture capital firms that specialize in later-stage investing.What Is Series B Funding?
    Series B rounds are all about taking businesses to the next level, past the development stage. Investors help startups get there by expanding market reach. Companies that have gone through seed and Series A funding rounds have already developed substantial user bases and have proven to investors that they are prepared for success on a larger scale. Series B funding is used to grow the company so that it can meet these levels of demand.

    Building a winning product and growing a team requires quality talent acquisition. Bulking up on business development, sales, advertising, tech, support, and employees costs a firm a few pennies.

    How Series B Funding Works
    Companies undergoing a Series B funding round are well-established, and their valuations tend to reflect that; most Series B companies have valuations between around $30 million and $60 million.
    1

    Series B appears similar to Series A in terms of the processes and key players. Series B is often led by many of the same characters as the earlier round, including a key anchor investor that helps to draw in other investors. The difference with Series B is the addition of a new wave of other venture capital firms that specialize in later-stage investing.

    I find it interesting they say :

    Series B is often led by many of the same characters as the earlier round, including a key anchor investor that helps to draw in other investors. The difference with Series B is the addition of a new wave of other venture capital firms that specialize in later-stage investing.Series B is often led by many of the same characters as the earlier round, including a key anchor investor that helps to draw in other investors. The difference with Series B is the addition of a new wave of other venture capital firms that specialize in later-stage investing.

    Perhaps we are worrying needlessly. Perhaps they already have the investors lined up and only have to go through this filing anyway.

    • Mark Salyzyn

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 1:01 pm

      Class B (or C or D) shares != Series B funding round.

  • Mark Salyzyn

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 2:46 pm

    A more pragmatic viewpoint.

    As purchasers, or rather reservation holders, of a promised deliverable from a company, there is no reason or urge to invest in the company if you do not have the expendable cash and the fiscal (or emotional) reasoning. In other words, it is not our problem.

    If Aptera Motors fails to convince future or current $$ investors that they can viably deliver a product on time, as promised, and can in turn deliver on the promise of future profits worthy of their investment, that is on their heads. And if it fails, then in some measure it was destined not to happen. This is a hard and cold fact.

    I could invest $2M at the accredited rate, but I am not convinced that I will see profit exceeding my current investments. So I chose to be a reservation holder, I chose to pray and hope for their success, and I hope that some angel out there believes stronger than I that they want to put their money where their mouth is. I feel privaleged my tiny refundable deposit allows me to be a small part of the SEV dream I have had since 1967. I have been provided hope for humanities future for such a cheap price, and been delivered unmatched entertainment.

    On FB Aptera Motors only exudes excitement for the forthcoming deliveries. They show no signs of blinking, this vehicle will happen. I chose this positive view of the future, and hope you all will have smiles on your faces in no time at all.

    Nothing, NOTHING, will generate more excitement than the first production SEV on the planet wheeling off the assembly line. That is my dream.

  • Qiang Fu

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 2:59 pm

    I think Aptera can leverage its subscription base to make the production happen, even if equity infusion is not sufficient. It’s just a matter of finding a scheme that protects the financial interests of the parties involved. In one of Steve’s earlier video, I posted a comment and suggested a scheme where we/buyers buy and own the parts via Apetra, and contract the Apetra to assemble. I copied my comments below for your entertainment.😀 I bet there can be other arrangements that make financial sense for both parties, get the car built, and help the company to accumulate working capital.


    “one suggestion I have for Aptera is to use the business model of a contract manufacturer, where the customers contract the company to build the Aptera by paying for parts and materials upfront. My understanding is that Aptera’s manufacturing process is more an assembly of the parts sourced from vendors, which means most of the production costs consist of the parts it purchases instead of the high cost of setting up the factory and assembly lines like Tesla. This unique “manufacturing” process makes this arrangement possible.

    For example, 1000 customers can collectively contract Aptera for a batch to be built in certain month, and each customer will put $25k or whatever cost of the materials in an escrow account, where the company draws from to buy the parts and materials on customers’ behalf. After the car is assembled, the customer will pay remaining $x to take delivery. Should the company fail, the ownership of the parts and materials sourced with funds from escrow remain with the customer and customer will have to DIY or find a local bodyshop to put the car together, which is possible given the nature of the Apetra’s production process. After the first batch of 1000 cars are built and delivered, a second 1000 batch is open up for customer to sign up, and so on… The risk to Aptera is low since the sale is certain before the production process and most of the costs are paid for upfront. The risk to the customer is also limited with a careful setup of the escrow agreement. I will be the first to sign up should Aptera goes that route. This arrangement should at least get Aptera’s production going if it can’t secure additional funding or additional funding comes at an unreasonably high cost. Assuming 20% net profit margin and 10k volume, Aptera can potentially build up roughly $60m capital via this process in the first year and can gradually change back to more traditional business model once it has a solid financial footing.”

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 3:47 pm

      A little too complex for practical implementation and requires the customer to have a large amount of disposable capital available to allocate to an escrow account. People who need to finance will not be able to do that since a bank or other financing organization takes ownership at time of sale and will not advance the funds for a future production. Also ungainly to administer for Aptera and they effectively lose control of the company/production.

      Lastly, some legal organization separate from Aptera would be required to act in behalf of The production contracting customers. Expensive overhead and complex to administer.

    • Qiang Fu

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 4:08 pm

      You are right, Jonah. Upfront capital cost for the buyers is high and can’t be financed, therefore this will only be applicable for some customers. This will probably only be applicable in the first few thousands deliveries until company accumulate enough working capital and start the “normal” production/sale process. No doubt there will be added overhead cost.

      <font face=”inherit”>Obviously in the hopefully unlikely event of Aptera going under during the process, there will be added cost and </font>hassle to the buyers<font face=”inherit”>. But, at least they get the necessary parts to turn this into an DIY project.😀 </font>

      • Mark Salyzyn

        Member
        August 17, 2022 at 4:30 pm

        Aptera has a financing company involved already to permit some of the reservation holders a bridge. I expect they could be convinced to provide bridge financing for a batch?

        • Qiang Fu

          Member
          August 17, 2022 at 5:47 pm

          @Mark Salyzyn financial firms would probably hesitate because in this scheme the collaterals are auto parts which has limited resell value. Unless, they can be convinced that someone in the reservation pool is willing to take over the position should the borrower defaults.

        • John Malcom

          Member
          August 17, 2022 at 6:37 pm

          This is not a thing Tesla would do. Counter to their culture or rather Leon’s nature.

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            August 17, 2022 at 7:30 pm

            I’m concerned this concept would be to stop/go on assembly lines to be practical. Assembly staff and processes take time to hit an efficient stride.

            • Qiang Fu

              Member
              August 17, 2022 at 8:37 pm

              @Curtis Cibinel right, smooth operation depends on how many reservation holders have the resource to put down a large upfront payment for the parts. Not ideal but it’s better than dead-in-the-water. My thinking is this is to get production started and eventually the company will revert back to normal production process once they gain solid financial footing. Furthermore, nothing attract investors more than seeing flowing production lines and cashflow.

    • Jonathan Jansson

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 7:07 pm

      I like the idea. You don’t need all reservation holders to sign up for it, just 1000 initially. Out of a pool of 30k+, I’d think you could pull in such a number that have the capital available. The level of assembly may be a hurdle, though. I understand the main factory floor will put the 6 subassemblies together, but this may not be the labor intensive part. The subassembly manufacturing site may be where the real work gets done and specialized tooling may be needed.

      • Qiang Fu

        Member
        August 17, 2022 at 8:29 pm

        @Jonathan Jansson Yes, I also think the first 1000 out of 30k reservation holders would be quite easy. Assuming each spend $20k to buy the parts, that’s $20 million to get production started. You did remind me that there’s a sub-assembly step, which make DIY more difficult should the buyers end up with the parts. I was originally thinking how hard it can be to put 6 parts together. 😀

        And, this can be run parallel with the normal production process to supplement capital needs if stock sale does not meet the target.

        Anyhow, I just want to illustrate that there can be other creative ways to get the production going, without relying solely on the equity raising. They should hopefully have Plan A/B/C lining up and work on them simultaneously.

        For me, Plan A is if Aptera can get government funding without diluting our initial investments…

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    August 18, 2022 at 12:35 am

    It is possible government loans or another big investor could come along but getting to scale is complicated and expensive. Hopefully Gamma will be 95+% production ready and generate buzz that attracts big investors they need. If Aptera can secure solid funding and reach ~40 units per day then they can sell themselves effectively in an IPO and reproduce the pattern with similar micro factories. Rivian has a staff of over 5000 and barely makes 50 units per day with a valuation of 33 billion. Investor confidence in IPO for EV companies not shipping units is not what it was a few year ago.

    Unless Aptera is well funded I wouldn’t be surprised to see a reduction in some of the existing non-senior engineers as they could sideline the 4 wheel sedan development to save money and focus on scaling production. Obviously ideally they keep all the good engineers they have, develop new products, hire production teams and secure new locations all simultaneously but to minimize cash burn it wouldn’t surprise me to see hard decisions made. I could also see major localization efforts (ie Right Hand Drive / European market) or features (AWD / options / battery sizes) also being sidelined if cash is tight; KISS principles. This is obviously speculation but I genuinely believe Chris/Steve and the management team are smart enough to be planning for possible contingencies now.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 6:15 am

      I concur with your prognostications.

      Cutting expenses saves a dollar for a dollar vs. a dollar of revenue is not a dollar saved but something less after taking out operating and administrative costs.

      Also agree that there are multiple plans for reducing costs depending on capital acquisition success.

      Makes sense to stop any R&D on future products.

      Let’s hope the combination of cost saving measures and capital acquisition is sufficient to get to production and get a revenue stream to help out.

  • Peter Dezendorf

    Member
    August 18, 2022 at 7:28 pm

    So, Aptera raises $50 MILLION this year or it goes bust. Gee, should I cancel my reservation now, or wait till it goes bust?

    • Riley …

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 7:37 pm

      I don’t think they will dissappear if they don’t make the 50 million. They could reduce the daily production rate, delay the 4 wheel car and reduce the number of options available.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    August 20, 2022 at 3:04 pm

    What if Aptera Motors just changed their reservation requirement from $100 down to something like 5% down? I am no good at math but with the average vehicle priced at somewhere near $34k-$35k that might get them close to what they need without having to find an angel investor.

    • Kevin Bradbury

      Member
      August 20, 2022 at 3:36 pm

      It’s my understanding that the $100 is just a reservation holding and not a down payment. Once it’s time to produce vehicles, reservation holders will be contacted for final option selection and a down payment collected.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        August 20, 2022 at 5:41 pm

        Keven, you are correct. The $100 is a reservation not an order or down payment although you will get a $100 credit against the price of your Aptera. When your turn comes up you will be contacted and will finalize an order and make payment commitments. (down payment, full payment , etc.)

  • seth feldman

    Member
    August 20, 2022 at 5:11 pm

    There’s not much Aptera should need equipment wise besides the robot carts? I’ve seen companies manufacturing new products get basically pay on delivery loans from suppliers (get all of the parts, build the product, and repay suppliers when customers hand over cash) which I’m sure Aptera could work out with some of their better funded larger suppliers. I think worst case scenario is they don’t scale up as fast as we’d like, and it takes a year or more to get near 10k production goals without more investment/loans.

    • Mark Warren

      Member
      August 22, 2022 at 10:36 am

      Aptera doesn’t need to start production with AGV’s if they have a tight budget. Remember, there is a very steep learning curve when developing and scaling a production system. For comparison, look at Tesla’s struggles ramping up their Model S cars, even after building about 1500 Roadsters. In building the first 100 Model S’s, they achieved only 2-3 a day.

      The best options for them would be to sell as many as they can to ‘local’ buyers for the first few hundred cars, so engineering can have rapid feedback. If the learning curve is similar to Tesla’s Roadster, a lot of issues will surface during the assembly process and many more will happen in the first 90 days of use. With their engineering on-site, I expect there will be lots of minor changes in each batch.

      Production reality is far different from simulations and prototypes. With the right skill sets, they should be able to ramp up quickly. Their idea of having distributed assembly locations makes sense and has some historical precedents. When Henry Ford was ramping up production of the Model T, he quickly ran out of assembly capacity in Detroit. He could keep up with building the parts and subassemblies, so they began to ship semi-knocked-down cars to final assembly locations. In a couple of years, he had about 50 plants doing the final assembly of the Model T. This has been taken to a new level with lean and “mini-factory’ concept.

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 6:29 pm

    With the recent announcement, it looks like $22 million of that $50 million are taken care of, thanks to the state grant.

  • Daniel Woodford

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 5:18 am

    Hi, Im not one of those who typically comments online. Just wanted to share that Aptera is a product that I believe has come at the exact right time. There is a biological NEED for Sustainable transportation, plus the idea is fun and just feels right. Sometimes the “sun” shines down and the answers are illuminated.

    Was going through blog posts above. Dirk Wright had posted a question and John Voules replied:Just wanted to clarify that Aptera it seems has opened funding to ACCREDITED and NON-ACCREDITED investors alike so ANYONE can put in for that $1000 investment simply scroll all the way to the bottom on Aptera website click invest link. Just did myself, was more streamlined on a PC than a smartphone.

    We are at a societal tipping point here. The awarded 22M Grant by California energy commission is in hand. Let’s all do our best, pitch in what we are able, tell our friends, make Aptera a success. We will all be driving around proudly in our new vehicles!

    (Dan)

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    September 16, 2022 at 10:47 am

    Any details ? Updates ? Still 28million short ?

    • Peter Mains

      Member
      September 16, 2022 at 10:57 am

      Seems like the Fully Charged event made some waves. The new reservations won’t make much of a dent (if that’s even counted against the $50M), but it would be nice to see more transparency on this.

      • Sam Adams

        Member
        September 16, 2022 at 11:50 am

        $$$ from reservations only go into an escrow. Monies that can’t be touched.

    • James Wolf

      Member
      September 16, 2022 at 11:13 am

      With the new investment round that just opened, that $26 million will be greatly reduced. don’t see any problem there.

      • Sam Adams

        Member
        September 16, 2022 at 11:50 am

        I hope you’re correct!

        • John Voules

          Member
          September 16, 2022 at 3:26 pm

          It would not be the end of the world, they can also do a loan without diminishing the value of the share holders. I have been working diligently enlightening my friends. The interest is there once you educate. It’s best to have investment come from within and I am happy with the response. This vehicle will take off…maybe that’s why it’s wingless flight.

          • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  John Voules.
      • Patrick Liebknecht

        Member
        September 28, 2022 at 11:20 pm

        The problem is fairly simple, if they started out with 26 million from California tax payers, and haven’t moved the needle much past that…the signs would point to:

        The donors are done donating,

        or, 8.5% inflation killed disposable income for many donors who would now rather feed their kids than a dream,

        or maybe once the initial hype was over , the donating is over ?

        either way , if they aren’t transparent ( like my local fire department, that’s trying to raise money to expand ) and has a huge thermometer outside that keeps going up with a clear goal marked.

        Are they hiding something ?

        just asking.

        • John Voules

          Member
          September 29, 2022 at 6:47 am

          I’ve had several friends make sizable investments. For those of us who have followed with passion and believe in what APTERA is trying to produce invested earlier and many of us went all in. Many of us maybe tapped out, those who are investing now are more pragmatic with their $ due to the investors market right now.

          • Jonah Jorgenson

            Member
            September 29, 2022 at 7:24 am

            Availability of capital is the long pole in the tent for Aptera right now in a VERY tight market for investment capital. It will take a large investor to pledge funds to Aptera to provide sufficient capital to fully fund the remainder of development and production into 2023. (Similar to Walmart for Canoo)

            Individual investors do not appear to be making sufficient contributions to achieve the $50-200 million needed.

            • This reply was modified 4 days, 19 hours ago by  Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: correct spelling
  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 17, 2022 at 3:12 am

    While Fully Charged did make some waves, some were not as good as I had hoped, however the pre orders are still coming in at a good rate, I hope the number of investors will also. Aptera is also steadily making improvements, so the investments will pay off. My main reason for investing has been to help the environment, as Aptera is clearly needed. When the stock goes public we know it will have its ups and downs, but the trend will be up as more people realize the need for it.

  • BigSky Country

    Member
    September 17, 2022 at 12:47 pm

    My thinking on this $50M requirement is that it is more important Aptera gets this design wrapped up and declared street legal for sale, than to worry about the top end of their capital requirements. I’ve been involved in numerous high capital decisions for market entry and Aptera doesn’t need to fully automate right away. It could be more expensive in the long run, but lower risk to semi automate in the beginning. A lower entry capital threshold may remove some funding risk. Risk to funding will go down if Aptera is actually selling cars because it becomes a predictable return with calculable cost savings payback at that point. The production ramp would likely be slower, but I don’t see startup risks in this scenario as they may already have the funds for a bare bones startup.

    They are right to seek funding for their automated factory floor design, but I can easily imagine them developing a back up plan with much less funding which they may already have enough money for with the California grant they received.

    The funding for that first car off the lot should be the main focus because that first car costs millions. The second car and beyond are millions less and easier to fund later.

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