600 mile to 1000 mile price jump

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions 600 mile to 1000 mile price jump

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions 600 mile to 1000 mile price jump

  • 600 mile to 1000 mile price jump

  • Ronald Travisano

    Member
    June 28, 2022 at 8:58 pm

    Why such a steep price jump from 600 mile range to 1000 mile range? It’s twice as much compared to 400 to 600 mile range upgrade.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    June 28, 2022 at 9:31 pm

    @Ron Travisano – 400 to 600 adds 200 while 600 to 1000 adds 400 – that’s twice the amount, hence, twice the price.

    • Ronald Travisano

      Member
      June 28, 2022 at 9:41 pm

      Fine, you want to use logical math? ha haha. Would be great if the promise of 1000 mile range didn’t have a price point up near $50k (all wheel option as well) but I guess the performance and range are pretty amazing… Okay, I just ordered one.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        June 29, 2022 at 12:24 am

        Aptera seems to be making little or no extra profit by selling larger packs. Batteries are an expensive comodity and even assuming linear scaling (unrealistic) the 1000 mile will need 15 modules with 416 cells (400 mile used 6); I suspect they will need as many as 18 to offset losses in efficiency with weight. Even at wholesale this is likely $20,000-$25,000 just in batteries. More packs to offset lost range due to weight brings this even higher.

        All costs are going up with inflation and I’m concerned they will struggle to make a profit. Aptera is likely the best $ per khw as they are currently priced (in addition to the obvious $ per mile)

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    June 29, 2022 at 1:30 am

    Ron, many of us who reserved one have wondered the same, but it is driven by the price of the extra battery packs. I waivered on the 600 and 1000 watt versions myself and decided to go with the 600 watt version. I usually drive no more that 500 miles on any vacation and the Aptera charges overnight, to full or nearly full battery in the morning. I won’t shame anyone who wants the 1000 version, but for me, 600 works fine and is a bit more efficient due to less weight, not to mention it costs a lot less.

    • Ronald Travisano

      Member
      June 29, 2022 at 11:57 am

      Yes, I’ve gone back and forth on 600 and 1000. It’s a big price jump and 600 is extremely capable. My thoughts are for really long road trips in cold weather having that extra power might be amazing so at the moment I’m going the full monty! AWD and 1000. But you can change your reservation down the line so who knows if I switch back.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    June 29, 2022 at 6:29 am

    When final pricing comes out I’d speculate that the price difference will increase, it doesn’t make sense to just account for the battery costs. There are significant engineering costs associated with the 1000 mile variant, it’s going to need a different suspension. The Aptera’s payload is only 500lbs, the bigger pack will account for nearly all of that, there might be room left over for a cat but not for a human, they’ll have to redesign the suspension to account for the bigger battery. That engineering cost will have to spread across a fairly small number of cars, the 1000 mile version will be the least popular variant.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      June 29, 2022 at 6:45 am

      Agreed!

      The engineering costs and price for essentially designing, testing, and producing a new vehicle will be high. And, as Joshua points out, certainly amortized over a quite small number of production even to just cover the engineering and logistics cost.

      There will be an opportunity cost as well. The 1,000mi variant will use batteries that could be larger numbers of 600, 400, or 250 variants that could be sold at a higher volume to generate revenue.

      But, Aptera will do it or lose credibility and to satisfy those that have a use case for the 1,000 mile variant

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        June 29, 2022 at 7:00 am

        There is also an engineering opportunity cost. Do you spend effort on the 1000 mile version or do you spend it on the four wheel version (they might be able to combine the two, have a four passenger four wheel model and or a two passenger 1000 mile model where the back seats are replaced with the bigger battery).

        • Steven G. Bueche

          Member
          June 29, 2022 at 9:40 am

          They’ve got to spend the money for the 1000 mile version or they’ll lose face. They’re whole advertising is the car that goes a 1000 miles on a single charge. I think the damage will be extremely costly if they don’t build and prove this. I can see it now, “They said it would do 1000 miles. so far they’ve only managed to do 400 or 600 so far. Was it all a scam to get preorders or more value in the IP?” The FCC isn’t commenting.

          • Dennis Swaney

            Member
            June 29, 2022 at 11:10 am

            Why would the Federal Communications Commission be commenting? šŸ˜•

            I think you meant the FTC. šŸ™‚

            • Jonah Jorgenson

              Member
              June 29, 2022 at 11:34 am

              SEC as well as it would be a misrepresentation to investors similar to Lords Town and Nicola

          • Jonah Jorgenson

            Member
            June 29, 2022 at 11:32 am

            šŸ‘šŸ‘

          • Joshua Rosen

            Member
            June 29, 2022 at 11:50 am

            I think it will be like the Tesla Roadster. Tesla promised the Roadster five years ago, it’s still coming at some point but who knows when.

            Aptera has said the 1000 mile version will take longer to ship than other variants. They’ve said that the 400 mile version is first, the 250 mile version is nothing more than depopulating the batteries so it will come quickly after the 400, the 600 is a little more work but not that bad and the 1000 requires significant engineering.

            A four passenger version, especially a four wheel version, will be a much higher volume vehicle. Two adult men weigh about the same as the extra batteries required for the 1000 mile car. They can kill two birds by combining the development of the four passenger variant with the 1000 miler. That won’t require special engineering for the 1000 mile car, just take out the back seat and replace it with batteries.

          • John Voules

            Member
            June 29, 2022 at 12:06 pm

            Iā€™m sure that the percentage of orders for the 1000 mile version is on the low side compared to the mainstream 400 mile version. Iā€™m not to comfortable agreeing with you about Aptera loosing cred. I ordered both 400+1000 versions. It maybe that at the end of it all, it maybe quite a bit more efficient to offer an 850 mile version, based on battery packaging and weight disadvantages for a vehicle that can do 1,000 miles. Either way, remember if and when the 1k version hits the market, probably 10s of thousands of these vehicles will be on the roads where the public will have a chance to fall in love with, just as we did. My instinct is that there will be a supply and demand issue for at least 3 years + based on future orders and the yet to be completed factories to keep up with demand.

            Also I believe there would be minimal repercussions if they decided not to develop it at all. Possibly next generation of batteries would make it easily viable. In reality not many people can drive straight through 1,000 miles without a break of some kind.

  • francois kilchoer

    Member
    June 29, 2022 at 1:46 pm

    @John Voules:

    “Also I believe there would be minimal repercussions if they decided not
    to develop it at all. Possibly next generation of batteries would make
    it easily viable. In reality not many people can drive straight through
    1,000 miles without a break of some kind.”

    Personally, for the “daily” driving that I do, the 250 mile version would be perfect. And yet, I’m ordering the 1000 mile version. Why ?

    • My idea is to “charge once, drive forever”. I live in Switzerland, and we’ll possibly get 30 miles of charge thanks to the sun in the best of conditions, not 40. There might be some Januarys where we’ll get 40 miles of charging for the entire month. I’m hoping that the batteries will be good enough to tide me over those trying times.
    • Inside Europe, there will be no more new ICE vehicles by 2035 (IIRC). In Switzerland, we’ll probably go along, but there is talk to attempt to do that sooner. I’m not convinced that the availability of charging stations will improve enough for such an increase of electrical vehicles (at least not initially). And running an extension cord from your typical 4th floor (or higher) apartment to your car on the other side of the street isn’t really an option.
    • One can always dream…šŸ˜‰ there is a company called Amprius Technologies in Fresno, California (https://amprius.com/) who claims to have the highest energy density lithium-ion batteries available. By the time Aptera is ready to produce the 1000 miler, these batteries will be reasonably priced to make the weight issues moot ?
    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 29, 2022 at 2:04 pm

      The 1000 mile Aptera is currently cheaper than the most basic model 3 ($44,900 vs $48,490) they have aggressively made the 1000 mile a practical rather than halo model. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ~15% of the 300 people that said they reserved the 1000 mile in my poll on the facebook group is fairly accurate overall (400 had ~50% and 250 had ~7%). They have committed to making this happen even if many people (myself included) feel it is not needed. The cells alone could be $20,000 – $25,000 and given material costs the prices are unfortunately not likely to stay still.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    June 29, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    Apropos of driving 1000 miles, I just read an article about Hampton’s surgery. I swear I’m not making this up. New Yorker’s who have summer places in The Hampton’s are getting surgery so that they can make the ride without having to urinate. For men they ream out the prostate, for women they inject botox into their bladders. Sounds horrible.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      June 29, 2022 at 5:31 pm

      Ha that is a hoot! Certainly more money than brains and fits the NY stereotype.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: corrected spelling
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