A Breath of Fresh Air

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions A Breath of Fresh Air

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions A Breath of Fresh Air

  • A Breath of Fresh Air

     kerbe2705 updated 4 weeks, 1 day ago 9 Members · 32 Posts
  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    May 25, 2022 at 2:17 pm

    I haven’t seen anything about how cabin ventilation happens, other than the obvious “roll the movable portion of the side windows down” feature and the entry (see attached JPEG) from the FAQ spreadsheet that promises air conditioning and heating

    I know about the belly pan cooling of the battery pack and I appreciate the aerodynamic advantage of not having a flow-through radiator for cooling. However, I have yet to see how occupants will enjoy a breath of fresh air when the windows are up. I mean the good old open up the dash vents and get a bit of fresh air blowing on me and my passenger. Is this something that in the “wait until the production models are produced” category or has anyone noticed something in one of the test drive videos about this?

    • This discussion was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Ray Holan.
  • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

    Member
    May 25, 2022 at 2:24 pm

    The implication that I am aware of, is that there will be a lipped area for the wiper behind the hood/hood solar array as on most vehicles, and that incoming air would be vented in thru there and out via the exhausts at the rear on either side of the license plate.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      May 25, 2022 at 3:22 pm

      Yep. Sounds right. I think always implied but never explicitly stated.

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      May 25, 2022 at 3:49 pm

      Thanks, guys. It was one of those things that had me wondering.

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    May 29, 2022 at 12:21 pm

    Came across Ben Sullins video posting of April 2022. This screenshot is a closeup of the Alpha and shows air outlets at base of windshield. Assuming this configuration will make it into the final production design, they could well be cabin fresh air outlets I was wondering about.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      May 29, 2022 at 2:58 pm

      Perhaps defroster vents as well for our cold climate owners.

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  John Malcom. Reason: corrected spelling
  • kerbe2705

    Member
    May 29, 2022 at 3:29 pm

    I believe we’re looking at an interior vent (red) and the exterior air intake (green)

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  kerbe2705.
    • Vernon Michael Gardner

      Member
      May 29, 2022 at 8:59 pm

      Kerbe is absolutely correct. The fresh air intake is that the gap between the hood and the windshield and the exhaust vent it’s at the license plate. This completes a flow through ventilation system and can have an cabin air filter system built in. The vents just inside the front windshield are for dehumidifying the windshield commonly called defrosters.

  • Kevin Bradbury

    Member
    May 29, 2022 at 5:54 pm

    But does fresh air venting count as “a full climate control system!”? Those of us at or near the Gulf of Mexico (Oklahoma here) experience “air you can wear” in the summer with the humidity pumped in on southerly breezes.πŸ˜“

    I’m hopin fer some jenyooine arr condishunnin.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      May 29, 2022 at 10:10 pm

      @Kevin Bradbury Next to “does it have windows”, “does it have AC” has been the most commonly-asked question about Aptera – from Day #1. Yes, Aptera will have AC. Yes, Aptera will have heat. Yes, Aptera will have windows and air bags and seatbelts and windshield wipers and all the other accoutrements one would find in most any modern automobile: The founders have stated time and again that they are building the vehicle to automotive (not motorcycle) standards and that they fully expect it to pass automotive safety and crash worthiness testing.

      In addition to all of the above, Aptera ALSO has a solar-powered ventilation system (even with the “basic” solar package) that will keep the interior from overheating when the vehicle is parked in the sun in hot weather. The system will maintain the interior at the ambient temperature – so if it’s 100Β°F outside, it will be 100Β°F inside, instead of 130Β°F.

      • Ray Holan

        Moderator
        May 30, 2022 at 5:36 am

        Many thanks. Glad to have access to such skilled detectives here on the forum! LOL

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          May 31, 2022 at 3:21 pm

          Just doin’ what an Ambassador is s’posed to do!

      • Kevin Bradbury

        Member
        May 30, 2022 at 9:04 am

        @kerbe2705 Thanks. True I haven’t done a deep dive into the FAQ, other than finding the one quoted above or the search function of the discussions. But paddling in the shallow end caused me concern with how Aptera would be able to incorporate active air cooling with the methods I am aware of and the design of the Aptera. While yes, it has been stated that Aptera will have air conditioning, what hasn’t been stated is how they are going to do it. I can’t see enough space or air intake for traditional, compressor AC or a heat pump. I don’t know that Peltier modules would be able to do the job, but I am ignorant on their energy requirements and performance. Lastly, using a “swamp cooler”, a “hobo AC” or a spray bottle and fan might be a deal breaker for me😜.

        • Ray Holan

          Moderator
          May 30, 2022 at 10:28 am

          Hi, Kevin. For the record, we know that the initial production run of Apterae will not have a heat pump. Chris A. has indicated in one of the many videos that they have not been able to procure one that meets their specs. So they’re planning to hook up with a supplier that can provide a resistance heater for a time, then a suitable heat pump later. No notion of what “later” will turn out to be.

          When you mentioned “swamp cooler” in your post, it reminded me of a dear departed uncle of mine who drive a little Nash Metropolitan and was a total gadget freak. He bought a contraption from the J.C. Whitney catalogue that consisted of a metal tube that had a bracket that let you hang it out a partially-opened car window. You poured water into a reservoir in the tube and evaporative cooling would wash over you as air was forced into the front facing opening of the tube as you drove. I thought it was right up there with cold fusion, geek-wise.

  • Tim Dean

    Member
    May 29, 2022 at 6:42 pm

    Cabin air must come through a replaceable therefore accessible cabin filter before entering into a distribution plenum which includes one or more multi speed blowers. Most cars intake their cabin air below the front windshield under the wipers. This is all included if the dash assembly most likely supplied by Chery. I doubt that the exhaust will be powered but the intake fan will be controlled by cabin temperatures.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Tim Dean.
  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    May 31, 2022 at 5:11 am

    Unbelievable. Yep, that illustration on the eBay listing looks pretty darn close to what I remember. Re: the cousin in Ohio question β€” I have several.

    Re: number of Apterae in first production run. That’s anyone’s guess. I’ve heard 200-250 bandied about. I suppose there is a firm number for the number of Paradigm models for which Aptera has reservations, but what they’ll actually make, like many other Aptera questions, is in the “we’ll see when we see” category.

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      May 31, 2022 at 5:33 am

      Ray, I’ve done a bit of looking at what so many have said about production runs (Myself included.). I’m not sure that we are all on the same page as to what it even means, and more importantly what Aptera means by it. Since there has been no indication so far of different year models, etc. I would think that production on the vehicle will continue until an upgraded model is introduced.

      When Aptera says that the 100kWh versions will be the fourth “production run” they may just be indicating that it will be the fourth to begin production. CA responded to a question on a webinar that each range model would go into production in the order 400/250/600/1,000, at which point all four would be in assembly at the same time. So probably with no particular cap on the number to be produced to complete a “run”.

      • Ray Holan

        Moderator
        May 31, 2022 at 10:20 am

        Thanks for the reminder and data points, Oz. Now that you mention it, I recall the 400,250,600,1000 model production order. How many of each and when they’ll be produced is where we need the Tarot cards. Personally, I seem to be getting more patient as time goes on. Go figure. Hope to stay in “whatever will be, will be” mode.

        • Jonah Jorgenson

          Member
          June 1, 2022 at 6:26 pm

          I don’t think tarot cards are needed.

          400s will be produced first (After Paradigms) at the production capacity available at that time. As production goes on, 25s will be added to the 400s. Production of both variants will continue simultaneously at the capacity available at that time against the finalized scheme for priority whatever that will be. (Announcement needed). As production goes on, 600s will be added to the production of 400s, and 250s. And production of all three will proceed simultaneously at the production rate available at that time. And finally, 1,000a will be added to the production line and all four variants will be manufactured at the production capacity at that time (Hopefully a lot)

          the production capacity will depend on a lot of factors with the 1,000lb gorilla in the room the supply chain.

          Now, a target for tarot cards….distribution!!!

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        May 31, 2022 at 11:54 am

        This is what is confusing: my order is for the 400 mile range model which supposedly has the 100kW drive system, so it will either be first or last. Aptera needs to specify which range & drive system will go into production first, then which will be second, third, and finally last. They may decide based on which gets them the most income earlier.

        • Ray Holan

          Moderator
          May 31, 2022 at 1:50 pm

          Hi, Denis. Confused by your confusion. Chris Anthony has been clear that the 400kW models will be produced first. How is it that you say “either be first or last?” Perhaps you’re thinking of the 150kW 3 motor 400kW?

          • Dennis Swaney

            Member
            June 1, 2022 at 7:59 pm

            No, in Oz’s post above he mentioned Aptera said the 100kW power version would be in the fourth “production run”. So that sounded like Aptera plans on producing three other kW power versions before they produce the 100kW power version. Yet Aptera has also said the 400 mile range model will be the first in production, so there is an apparent disconnect in what Aptera reps are saying. If the 100kW versions are fourth in line to be produced, and the 400 mile range model will be a 100kW powered version, how could it be both first and fourth in line for production? However, Oz’s post below clarified it.

        • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

          Member
          May 31, 2022 at 2:17 pm

          Hey Dennis,

          Based on what I said above being likely, it matches what Aptera has said in the videos. Production will begin with the 400 mile range vehicles, They will add to that in order the 250 mile, the 600 mile and then the 1,000 mile, all in FWD 100kW power draws, at which point all four variations would be in production together. At the time they first mentioned this, they added that the AWD 150 kW draw drive would follow that, as would the Off Road version. They could change the order, but nothing concrete has been said. That being so however, they originally indicated that the time between the first 400’s beginning production, to all variations being made, would only be a few months.

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          May 31, 2022 at 3:27 pm

          @Dennis Swaney The production plan is based upon which battery capacity has the greatest number of pre-orders. The most popular capacity is the 400 mile version: I sense that it won’t matter if you want FWD or AWD or the options you select – if you ordered a 400 mile version, your vehicle will be in the first production run (following the Paradigm models).

          • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

            Member
            May 31, 2022 at 4:03 pm

            So tell me Kerbe, what is a production run?

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              June 1, 2022 at 7:17 pm

              @Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz) Sorry, I thought most people understood that a production run is a quantity of units that are produced contiguously by a production line. Factories usually produce one type of item until they’ve reached their production goal for that item.

              In Aptera terms, then, the first production run will be the Paradigm models. The second run will be the 400-mile variant to fill the pre-orders for that model. Following that, the third run will be the 250-mile variant, etc. Once they fulfill the preorders they will probably build whatever version is ordered as they will have established the protocols necessary to build all four range variants.

              We don’t know if they intend to build vehicles on spec and stockpile them for later sale but that is also a common practice.

            • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

              Member
              June 1, 2022 at 8:07 pm

              Kerbe, I feel you miss my point. Aptera has only loosely posted as to what the production process will be, so I was asking the question to say we don’t really have all the info. (Aside from the fact there are several different definitions as to what a production run can be.) Chris Anthony stated in the Q&A portion of a recent investment webinar, that the idea is to start with the 400’s and add each of the other range variants, so that after some time, all four variants will be being assembled at the same time.)

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              June 1, 2022 at 10:02 pm

              @Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz) I responded to the question you asked, not to what you may or may not have been implying.

              Perhaps plans have changed – Chris seems to say things to investors that he doesn’t say to ambassadors – but I’m still working from information that we were given months ago.

              What we do know is that they’re not going to start with four concurrent production tracks in that one facility: At the beginning they’ll have one set of assembly stations and X number of AGV’s scooting around between them. If the plan is still to reach 10K units per year, that’s 5 per hour over an 8-hour workday and a 5-day week over 50 weeks. Running at full capacity, it would take 110 weeks of production to fulfill the current pre-orders.

              I think what I was told – as I described, above – is the most efficient and most likely scenario.

            • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

              Member
              June 2, 2022 at 2:29 am

              Kerbe, for clarity, are you saying that Aptera will start production with the 400 mile version and continue production until all of the preorders for those are complete, and then begin the 250s and so forth?

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              June 2, 2022 at 6:50 am

              @Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz) No, I’m saying that my understanding is that they will begin production with the Paradigm models and THEN build-out the required number of 400’s before moving on to the 250s. Once they have successfully constructed each of the four models, their production system will have been trained to produce them as needed, in no specific order.

              I use the term, “required number,” because we don’t know if there’s a cut-off point: It might be “of the first 10K orders” or it might be “when we’re proficient enough at making these to move on.”

        • Jonah Jorgenson

          Member
          June 1, 2022 at 6:14 pm

          Dennis, Aptera has announced the order many times with 400 mi, two wheel drive being right after the paradigm models. No confusion on the part of Aptera for many months

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