A new kind of range anxiety, unique only to Aptera

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions A new kind of range anxiety, unique only to Aptera

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions A new kind of range anxiety, unique only to Aptera

  • A new kind of range anxiety, unique only to Aptera

     Noddy Gay updated 1 week ago 15 Members · 16 Posts
  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    September 22, 2022 at 9:14 pm

    Traditional range anxiety is worry over not having enough range. With Aptera, a new type of range anxiety has emerged: anxiety over having too much range.

    I see several times, individuals trying to justify why people should not get the 1,000 mile range version of Aptera. They will try to explain why they are not getting it.

    It is a non-issue. No justification is needed. They sound like they actually want the 1,000 mile range, but are afraid to do so. I was originally going to get the 600 mile range and decided I would forever be rationalizing of why the 600 range is sufficient and there was no need to get the 1,000 mile range.

    If you find yourself in this mode of rationalization, go ahead and get the 1,000 mile range. (And don’t feel guilty about it!) Only then will you be satisfied. Don’t spend money on something you are not fully satisfied with.

  • John Voules

    Member
    September 22, 2022 at 10:11 pm

    Nope…no guilt here. I had several on the forum try to convince me to get 600 range. Americans love freedom…400 extra miles of freedom. When I drive alone, my stops are brief and my drives are long 12hr are typical. Overnight somewhere and get fully charged by next day. My trip should be faster than ice vehicle. Definitely cheaper!

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      September 23, 2022 at 9:58 am

      Ditto, except I could not afford either the cost or the extra long wait for either the 600 or 10000 models. I went for the 400 with complete solar.

      On my transcontinental and other long trips, I make a 5 minute stop for a bio-break every 2 hours. At around noon, I’ll add in maybe 5 – 10 minutes to pickup lunch at a drive through. After about 600 miles, I stop for the night. In the morning, I fill the tank and head out again. With the Aptera, I may see if my bio-breaks need to be extended to allow a quick 10 minute charge and maybe do a 20 minute charge at the lunch bio-break. When I stop at night, maybe a 1 hour charge while I have dinner will be sufficient.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    September 22, 2022 at 10:59 pm

    With how quickly the batteries charge, and the smallish size of the Aptera batteries are, my original choice was the 250 miles range with AWD. That was going to be my HOTROD for close to home driving, autocrossing and maybe so track time trials. The adult me ordered the 400 mile range, FWD and autopilot. I still may buy the HOTROD if I do not have to wait to long.

    I did buy a Tesla Model 3 SR in Blue with autopilot and the aero wheel covers for my wife and we are just waiting on the delivery.

  • Llewellyn Evans

    Member
    September 23, 2022 at 12:16 am

    People who have a reason to get the 1000Mile version will get it.

    Zero angst.

  • Hee-Choon Lee

    Member
    September 23, 2022 at 5:34 am

    I have driven across this beautiful country several times in my Prius during COVID-19 times, camping in it and only stopping to refuel. Once I get to my destination, I have to recover for a whole day. Now with my EV, I am forced to stop every couple of hours. Thankfully, my EV’s DCFCing is faster than my bathroom/coffee breaks so my EV waits for me 🙂 With such forced breaks, I am much less tired at the end of the trip. So, my initial attraction for the 1000 mile version back in Dec 2020 has changed to 400 mile version with this realization at significant weight and cost savings. As long as the DCFC network continues to grow and improve in reliability, I see no need for the 1000 mile version in my use case. One more Aptera can be made with the battery that I don’t lug around unnecessarily.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    September 23, 2022 at 8:00 am

    Everything involves tradeoffs, basic engineering involves choosing the optimal tradeoffs for a particular use case. If you want to kill a fly you don’t use an elephant gun, the elephant gun will kill the fly but it will also blow away the table that the fly is sitting on, you use a fly swatter which is simpler, cheaper and safer than a gun. You use an elephant gun when you want to kill an elephant, a fly swatter would be useless in that application. The right tool for the job.

    With battery size there are the obvious tradeoffs of cost, weight and size. Larger will give you more range but will cost more, weigh more (which effects handling and efficiency) and reduce your cargo space. When picking a battery you need to first determine what range will satisfy your needs 98% of the time, that’s going to be different for everybody. For the 2% of the time that it’s not big enough there is always DC charging, and by the way if you don’t mind stopping to charge then a battery that covers 90% of your needs would be fine.

    Buying a battery that’s oversized for your needs is not only a waste of money but it will get you a vehicle with lower efficiency, less cargo room and worse handling. That’s not “rationalization” as you put it, it’s just applying tradeoffs to make an optimal choice.

    One final note, the 99KWh car is not going to have 1000 miles of range, it will be 900 or less. Now that they’ve published the real battery sizes you can see that they’ve added about 10% to the battery sizes for the 400 and 600 mile variants, the batteries are large enough so that the usable battery capacities are 40 and 60KWh plus about 10% for the buffers. Even if you assume the “1000 mile” version was just as efficient as the shorter range cars, it can’t be because it’s much heavier but for the sake of argument we’ll assume it is, there is no added capacity to accommodate the buffer, the usable capacity is 90KWh. That’s 900 miles at best.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      September 23, 2022 at 11:08 am

      Maybe 99 KWH will do 1000 miles with the assumption the NHTSA rules will change and the mirrors can be taken off by the time it releases. We don’t know how much the mirrors are costing in terms of Cd now but this might be enough. Bonus is that could also mean the 400 mile would be more like 450 and all models will get a similar bump when the mirrors can be removed.

  • Kevin Molloy

    Member
    September 23, 2022 at 8:39 am

    I’m going for the 1000 mile range…

    As we say in aviation, there are three things that are useless once you takeoff.

    1. The air in you fuel tanks

    2. The runway behind you.

    3.And the altitude above you…

  • John Trotter

    Moderator
    September 23, 2022 at 10:06 am

    Everybody is right for themselves and wrong for others. The beauty of the Aptera approach is that there ARE four ranges to choose from. Think. Choose. End.

  • J.P. Morere

    Member
    September 23, 2022 at 2:49 pm

    And I’m still dithering… I want the 600 mile range. Most of my trips are one long day ~ 600-700mi. While I make frequent short Bio Breaks (thanks for that term Dennis) I find the idea of one longer mid-afternoon charging/dining stop reasonable. With the 600 mi. range the first leg could be 480 mi. (90% to 10%) and the second leg could be up to 420 mi. (80% to 10%). That would cover my usual one day limit with one stop. However… I could fairly easily make do with the 400 mi. pack. That would be up to 320 mi. (90% to 10%) first leg and 280 mi. (80% to 10%) second leg. This is short of my ~700 mi. family visit trip, requiring a second charging stop to get up to a 280 mi. third leg. I’ll admit that I get a bit impatient on road trips. This second charging stop would be survivable but add to the irritation factor. On the other hand… the 400 mi. pack is significantly less expensive (a substantial consideration for me), lighter, more nimble, and slightly more efficient. Worthy considerations against the weight and $$ cost of the 600 mi. pack that I would really only use 4-6 times a year. What a (first-world) dilemma. 😮 🙂

  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 24, 2022 at 11:15 am

    There is more to battery range than just miles. If you live in the north, in the winter, trying to keep both the battery warm and the cabin, will significantly reduce range, as well as driving through snow.

    Sense the Aptera range predictions are based on high efficiency. the % of battery used to supply the cold weather requirements may cut the actual range by 1/3 to 1/2, worst case maybe more?

    While I think for me, paying the extra $10K for the 1K mile version is not going to pay off, getting the 600 mile version that should still go hopefully 300 miles under almost worst case conditions will be.

    • Rond Wright

      Member
      September 24, 2022 at 1:26 pm

      I am thinking similar to you David, plus my understanding is that batteries lose a little capacity every year they are in use. I chose the 600 mile version in hopes that after five years of use I will still get 300+ miles in the 10%-80% range in the winter.

      • John Voules

        Member
        September 24, 2022 at 3:55 pm

        Rond, you are way off on your assumption. I have some of the oldest tech batteries on my 2014 BMW i3. After 8 years I have lost 13% of my battery capacity and range. I expect APTERA to at least match or surpass my expectations.

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    September 25, 2022 at 12:10 am

    All opinions and facts here are spot on and make sense not only for the author, but those that agree as well. For me, I’m a bit of a futurist, as in the tech of today will be radically different in the not too distant future. I hold a reservation for a 600 miler, but like many, I was also tempted by and debated in my head the merits of the 1,000 miler and its cost. I do believe swapping a battery pack for another more energy dense one of the same physical size is a real possibility and CA said battery replacement will be possible. I rarely drive over 10 hours, so 600 miles (or slightly less) makes sense for me. Tech is never frozen in time, it’s always evolving.

  • Noddy Gay

    Member
    September 26, 2022 at 5:38 am

    As we say in aviation, there are three things that are useless once you takeoff.

    1. The air in you fuel tanks

    2. The runway behind you.

    3.And the altitude above you…

    You forgot #4

    4. You can never have to much fuel unless you are on fire.

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by  Noddy Gay.
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