Aptera charging info

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aptera charging info

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aptera charging info

  • Aptera charging info

  • BRUCE MENGLER

    Member
    August 1, 2022 at 7:44 am

    IMO, the 100% charging problem is overhyped & I’ll explain why.

    I bought my 2018 Chevy Volt in December 2017, so it is rapidly approaching its 5th birthday. I have a Clipper Creek 40A EVSE in my garage that I use to nightly charge the Volt. Because the VOLT software has no ability to specify the charging limit, the VOLT gets charged to 100% NIGHTLY. As background details, I drive almost exclusively on Electric battery power & 94% of the total miles driven have been electric miles. When I bought the Volt, after its nightly charge it would report 54 miles of available electric range. Today & for the whole month of July 2022 it report 52 mile range. So in 4.5 years of NIGHLY charging to 100% the battery pack has degraded by about 4%. The Volt has a wimpy 3kWh inverter so not a whole lot of heat get generated during charging.

    I believe the battery degradation results from the HEAT generation during the charging operation, so the slow trickle charge from the onboard PV cells won’t be harmful to Aptera’s battery even charging to 100%.

    One of my goals for my Aptera is to drive it a full YEAR & never plug it into any EVSE.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      August 1, 2022 at 8:28 am

      The Volt has the buffers hardwired in. The Gen2 Volt had an 18.4 KWh battery of which only 14KWh was available. Because it’s an EREV not a BEV it had to be designed to run the battery from 100% to 0% each day because that’s the only practical to operate an EREV. BEVs are different. BEVs have no gas backup, the range is dependent solely on what you can put into the battery. Many manufacturers allow you to access most of the battery, which maximizes the range, then tell you not to do that except in unusual circumstances. That isn’t a universal rule, Audi maintains large hidden buffers. I believe the Ford Mach E only uses 88KWh out of it’s 100KWh battery. Tesla gives you access to almost all of the battery, they rely on their owners to follow the guidelines.

  • Michael Marsden

    Member
    August 1, 2022 at 8:03 am

    Very slow charging is said to be much safer for batteries than normal charging or super charging. So I suspect that the battery will last a very long time if it is mainly charged via solar.

    I have no idea what options (if any) the vehicle will give us in terms of adjustable charging limits. But if you can change the limit then maybe set it to 80%, until you need to do a long trip.

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    August 1, 2022 at 8:05 am

    I think there is ample credible technical evidence that charging to 100% and discharging to near 0% harms some battery chemistries more than others. There is also a lot of anecdotal evidence as well. The battery chemistry determines the number of full charging cycles before degradation occurs and how rapidly the batteries lose their capacity.

    I will stick with the guidance of charge to 80% and discharge to no lower than 20%. I am sure Aptera will have charging controls to allow you to set the maximum and minimum charge you want.

    If Aptera would switch to LFP batteries as Curtis Cibinel keeps encouraging them t o do, we would get more charging cycles for our batteries.

  • Lane Costilow

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 2:20 pm

    For those of you who are current or previous EV users, do I need to carry a non-metal brush to clean charging contacts on my vehicle or the charging station cables?

    • William Cook

      Member
      October 2, 2022 at 6:43 pm

      I would say no. The contact are generally big enough and have enough surface area to handle imperfections. If you are worried, then you can use a paper napkin to clean off any grease, water, etc off the coupler. Power isn’t applied to the coupler until it the charger and the vehicle communicates with each other so you should be able to clean it before use. I’ve never had to do this in over four years of experience.

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    September 6, 2022 at 2:45 pm

    Look forward to read answers to your query…

    For what this is worth…

    I can share a solution that could partially apply.

    I use a plug on my ICE cap-less fuel port, as I travel dusty primitive roads..

    I used a simple silicone plug in that port and..

    That resolved the dust accumulation problem I had.

    The fuel door ( no gasket )assures the plug stays in place

    Let’s see it the sliding license plate cover carries over to the Delta ( production intent ) version and how that covers the charge port ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    ( I could blow the dust off my vehicle after every use!)😔

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 5:11 pm
    • Lane Costilow

      Member
      September 6, 2022 at 6:08 pm

      Thank you. I’ve seen a Tesla owner complaint that he had occasional charging level reductions and locking/unlocking/(repeat) failures but then would clean the contacts to fix that. I take it I would use the DeoxIT and similar products if I see corrosion on the contacts? Or is this to be added to the maintenance schedule?

      The little jar of 50 wipes might be the simplest way to use the DeoxIT for both vehicle contact points and to clean charging cable points. Is that even safe for me to do?

      • Vernon Michael Gardner

        Member
        September 6, 2022 at 8:18 pm

        Lane, a very little goes a very long way. I use the Professional version call “Stabiline”. Very expensive (about $10.00 1.0ml.)

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 7:17 am

    I’ve never cleaned the contacts in my charge port and I’ve never heard of anyone doing it. It’s not necessary.

  • John Voules

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 8:33 am

    6+ years with my BMW I3 never had an issue with connecting to full charging.

    5+ years with my 2 Zero motorcycles also no issue.

    Every outlet in my home regardless of component also with out issues.

    I hope I didn’t jinx myself.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 11:40 am

    Joshua and John, you sound like you take goof care of you vehicles. My job was fixing vehicles that were poorly maintained, came from harsh environments or just had bad luck. Very common as computers were being used more and more that a very small amount of resistance could change an important value or confuse a computer.

  • Konijnerd the Great

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 12:12 am

    I would really appriciate a higher then 50kwh charging speed. On the 40kwh model i preordered it would require a ~40min stop to recharge to 80% again and those breaks are too long. 50kwh almost does not exist in EV’s anymore, its 100kwh or faster.

    The excuse that due to more efficiency you get more miles doesn’t count, because you’re only fast charging on the highway during a longer journey. More realisticly people drive between 60 and 85 miles per hour and this would make charging stops more common. In our planning we need to hold account with slower driving to get somewhere because a full charge will take a very long time.

    Please Aptera, don’t let the vehicle be stuck on the EV’s absolute early days, budget and lowest charging rate there is, and give us at least 75kwh or 100kwh would be appriciated. A 20min charging stop is good, healthy, short and not a pain.

  • Joseph Wall

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 12:24 am

    I understand that everyone is different, I personally am fine with about 45 minutes to charge on long road trips. That’s just enough time for me to enjoy myself at a restaurant and maybe walk around a little and see a new place. I’ve never really had any time off work to go on a vacation or anything, but I’d assume that if I were to be on vacation, like a road trip or whatever, you’re just hanging out, right? What’s an extra 20 minutes at the half way point? Depending on the parking lot where the chargers are and whatever cool stuff is around, 45 minutes might not be enough.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 2:14 am

      I never found a fast charger at a place i want to explore. It’s all placed at highways, where you do not have a great scenery to enjoy, but rather look at trucks, can go into the small shop or go to a restaurant. Going to the restaurant will take at least the 40mins charging time, sure. But I’m probably not the only person who would not visit a restaurant at literary every charging stop. 20 minutes is fine. you can play on your phone, walk around. But 40 minutes? No excuses, it’s long. Too long. If it’s not possible to make it shorter, then that’s sad and a unfortunate sacrifice of the Aptera. Know that even the lowest budget ev’s already offer 100kwh charging.

      • Joseph Wall

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 2:18 am

        That’s for 400 miles, though, that’s five or six hours of driving at highway speeds. I’d want a break and a stretch of my legs by then, and I’d only be able to handle two of those drives in one day anyway, so that’s just one 45 minute stop per day for me on a road trip with destination charging at the hotel, and never having to use a public charger ever for my daily use. If you’re in one of those other EVs you’re going to have to stop every 200 miles or so, so it’d add up to the same amount of time anyway. A 20 minute stop every 2.5 hours vs a 45 minute stop every 5 hours. I’d say it’s a wash.

        • Konijnerd the Great

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 2:24 am

          I’m not doubting the stretching the legs. I understand 3-4 hours is much and people want a break then. But not be stuck for 40 minutes. If you have two people you could also switch driving. Stretching legs, taking a pause also for toilets doesn’t last longer then 10 minutes. Lot’s of people drive to a vacation destination that’s further away then normal trips, and then definitely at least 2 stops on the way. one for dinner could be 40 minutes. the other 40min stop would for at least 90+% of cases be annoying for the people driving it. I’m pretty certain I can’t be convinced otherwise.

          • Joseph Wall

            Member
            September 13, 2022 at 2:36 am

            I can’t convince you personally to not be annoyed by an extra 15 or 20 minutes added to what sounds like 12+ hours of driving (remember all other EVs for this price don’t have the same range so you’re stopping less in Aptera), but I can tell you that most people buying this car because of the hyper efficiency are probably already putting up with or willing to put up with lots of annoying inconveniences in exchange for that efficiency. As an example, I drive a gas car currently, and I try my best to hypermile, driving only within the eco curve, burning and coasting, etc. It makes me a few minutes slower on every drive and annoys everyone around me so it’s actually more stressful than going fast, but when I put in the effort and deal with the compromise, I can get 44mpg in a 10 year old regular gas car while I wait for Aptera to be delivered.

            • This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by  Joseph Wall.
    • John Hermann

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 10:46 am

      If EV wishes to supplant ICE then it is going to have to offer (within reason) a comparable experience for extending range during trips that exceed the range of the vehicle. When my gas tank gets low it’s a 5-10 minute stop at a gas station which will happen 1-2 times to top off the tank in a vehicle that gets about 500 miles to the tank. That’s a typical real-world use case of mine where I travel for work up to about 800 miles one way on occasion, typically around 9.5-10 hours of travel time door to door. Adding 1-1.5 or more hours to that trip (assuming my choice of the 600-mile Aptera) is not particularly appealing.

      The tech isn’t there yet for EV charging to match ICE refueling, but those stops need to be a lot closer to 10 minutes than 45 for it to be practical for extended travel.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 12:50 am

    So you would like to add an extra battery cooler to charge faster?

    Or maybe you would not mined if the battery life was reduced by 50%?

    Or may be just wait a few more years until more efficient charging batteries are available?

    In hot weather the belly pan cooling will only do so much.

    There are other EV’s that can charge faster, when you can find a working/available charging station that will.

    Considering the range/KW that the Aptera can get would you actually be much better off with one of those faster charging EV’s?. If so, buy one.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 2:10 am

      David, 50kwh barely exists in the EV industry anymore. Only the lowest of budget EV’s have 50kwh. 100kwh is relative common now on budget models, but often going higher.

      If you think those are all sacrificing the time they last over the years, think again, as they almost all give 7 years battery warrenty with a minimum capacity level.

      Maybe it is not possible, but that would be a letdown and a unfortunate sacrifice of the Aptera.

  • Urban Košale

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 2:27 am

    Ethos of Aptera is efficiency, for faster charging you would need better <heavier> cooling -> unefficient. You should look at kilometers/hour charging speeds and not just raw speed in kW (a lot of manufacturers state absurd charging numbers that are true for short period of time but than average out quite a lot lower after charging is done). Aptera will get about 640 km of range per hour with 50kW charger (Tesla model 3 performance gets around 750 km/h with 250kW charger). A lot of ulta fast chargers are daisy chained together and allow faster speeds only when there is one user if there are two cars connected to the same station you will get just a half of a power.

  • Henry Abendanio

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 5:02 am

    I’ve ordered the 400 mile version so I just don’t anticipate having to charge from near empty to at least 80% often. Charging at a faster rate just ends up hurting the batteries anyway and probably would end up with a heavier and less efficient system. If you feel that 400 miles is not enough then maybe the 1000 mile range version is what your looking for. And a higher capacity battery probably will charge faster with less degradation anyways.

  • Henry Abendanio

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 5:17 am

    Is it going to be possible to have the charging system setup so the end user can set a limit to the charge at se 90% and anything above that go towards cooling. I travel sometimes for work and can see it being parked for months in sunny northern cali.

  • Vernon Sinnott

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 5:43 am

    I read that the Tesla chargers are soon going to be able to charge @ 350kw/h. With Aptera @ 50kw/h would we even be able to use those chargers? Is charging rate selectable or does the system intelligently adapt?

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 8:25 am

      The peak rating of a charger is mostly irrelevant. It’s a continuous negotiation between the charger and the car, the car tells the charger what voltage and current it can take, the charger tries to supply that amount if it can, if not it supplies what it can. NMC battery’s voltage is low at a low state of charge and gets higher as the battery is charged as a result the voltage will rise during the charging session. The current that batteries can take is dependent on their temperature and also on their state of charge, if the batteries are too cold or too hot then they can’t take as much current. As the state of charge increases the amount of current they can take also drops.

      On a typical charging session the initial charge rate will rise to a peak at the beginning, which is generally much lower than the charger can deliver unless you pull in with a very low charge level, and then start to drop off as the session goes on, at around 80% the charging rate generally drops precipitously.

      The fact that the Aptera can only charge at 50KW isn’t a problem from a technical standpoint, but it is from an economic point of view. While a Tesla, which can charge at up to 250KW, will typically be at the station for 15 minutes or so the Aptera will be tying it up for an hour. Tesla won’t be happy about that and it’s a reason why they might deny Aptera a license to use the Tesla plug and Supercharger network.

      • Russell Fauver

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 10:07 am

        @joshua I thought 50 Kw charging would deliver 500 miles of range in an hour. Am I wrong about that? I typically stop for a break in my gas car every 2-3 hours on the highway, 200ish miles. I reserved a 600 mile version and was I was counting on replenishing those 200 miles in 30 minutes or less during my normal break times. Do you think that’s possible? If it’s going to take an hour like you’re suggesting then I may need to do something different.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 11:08 am

          We don’t know anything about the charging curve for the Aptera. If they can maintain 50KW for an hour then yes you could get 500 miles of range in that time but that’s highly doubtful. For every other EV out there they only charge at their peak rate for a few minutes before dropping off. Because Aptera’s rate is so low it’s theoretically possible that they can maintain a fairly flat curve. At 80% my Tesla is still charging at over 60KW, I don’t think I’ve ever seen it drop to 50KW even when it’s approaching 90% so I believe that you could in theory maintain a flat 50KW rate. However the Aptera will have much weaker cooling than a Tesla so it’s still possible that the rate will drop just as it does for every other EV.

          However from Tesla’s point of view they would make about 1/3rd much money per minute as they do from a Tesla because the charging rate is so slow. They might make up for this by raising the price for slow charging cars, Elon said as much last year. It’s possible that the variable pricing would be regional. Where I live in New England I’ve only encountered a full Supercharger once, and that was on the 4th of July in Rhode Island when they only had one Supercharger for the whole state, now they have many. Around here any additional business is a bonus for them because most of the chargers are idle. But in California it’s a different story, the Superchargers are packed. A slow charging car would cost them money because it’s preventing a faster charging car from using the charger.

        • Harry Parker

          Moderator
          September 13, 2022 at 12:43 pm

          Russell and Joshua,

          Quoting from the Aptera FAQ page, “At roadside charging stations you’d likely get about 100 miles in 10 minutes.” So 200 miles in 20 minutes.

          Because Aptera is drawing less power into its battery than Tesla, it won’t be heating its battery as much and thus have such a need to slow charging down.

          Watching a video from the Gamma reveal Saturday, I heard an Aptera employee teasingly say they will have some good news about Aptera charging rates at the next, pre-production prototype reveal near the end of this year. He also mentioned Aptera now has a secondary battery cooling system that is only used while Aptera is stationary and plugged into a charger.

          • Forest Linden

            Member
            September 13, 2022 at 12:59 pm

            This is great news to hear about an additional cooling system that will be used while parked and charging. Without a cooling system, the heat while fast charging would be crazy and would degrade the battery quickly, I would think.

            200 miles of charge in 20 minutes is almost exactly what I get in my model 3 on road trips and it’s very acceptable on long trips. I want to stop every couple of hours anyway…bathroom, food, coffee for me and those I’m traveling with, walk the dog and feed him.

            All that takes 20 minutes even if you have a gas powered car anyway.

            20 to 30 minutes of charging for 200 miles of travel doesn’t seem to bother anyone I know who currently does that with teslas, and I doubt it would keep people from buying an Aptera.

          • Steve Wanamaker

            Member
            September 17, 2022 at 8:09 pm

            I have seen a video from Fully Charged of Chris talking about fast charging which doesn’t make complete sense. He said that the Aptera will not charge at faster than 1c so the 400 charges at 50 kW and the 600 charges at 60 kW. There is possible good news in there at breaking the 50 kW limit on larger battery sizes. The 400 charging at 50 doesn’t make sense as the 45 kWh battery should charge at 45 kW, and the 250’s 19 kWh battery should FAST charge at 19 kW not 50. This as usual is interesting and puzzling. I think patience is called for. Delta…

            • Curtis Cibinel

              Member
              September 17, 2022 at 11:26 pm

              The 250 is 23kwh. 50kw charging for the 45kwh may be some rounding up or charging at 1.1c instead of 1c.

  • J.P. Morere

    Member
    September 27, 2022 at 9:17 pm

    As I understand it the Level 2 charge rate for Aptera is 3.3KW. Why is it this low? Are there others here who are concerned that 3.3KW is too low?

    Let me say right here tha I accept this low rate is adequate most of the time for the relatively small battery packs in Aptera. Many, if not most Aptera owners will use external charging intermittently and possibly rarely. Still, when AC charging IS needed, I would think that greater than 3.3KW would be desirable and sometimes important.

    My example for higher rates would be for travel. If one were to stop at a hotel during a trip I would anticipate that the battery charge state would likely be below 20%. If you were to connect to a destination charger you would expect to leave with a fully charged battery the next morning. Given about 10 hours of charging time you will receive just over 30KWH or just over 300 mi. charging (<100% charging efficiency). On a 400 mi. pack starting below 20% that would be roughly 80-90% charged at the beginning of the next day of travel. If you have a 600 mi. pack you would be truly shortchanged, starting the next day at about 65% charge or about 400 mi. This means that you would have to stop at a DC fast charger either just before stopping at the hotel for the night or on the road the next day earlier than you would if starting with a fully charged pack.

    The above is just one, the one that I would anticipate encountering. Certainly there are other situations that would come from the low Level 2 charge rate. Another might be being caught at a low charge state and only being able to find or access a Level 2 charger.

    What are your thoughts on this? Personally I would like to see a Level 2 charge rate of 6.6-7KW as is common with many other EVs.

    • BigSky Country

      Member
      September 28, 2022 at 4:31 am

      I would very much doubt L2 charging will be limited to 3.3KW. While it is common and fine for home, I would expect to be able to charge at 6.6 outside the home.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        September 28, 2022 at 7:12 am

        The charge limit of 3.3KW is based on the selection of a 3.3KW charger for the Aptera vs. a more powerful charger to support “Efficiency” due weight and space considerations. I believe Aptera is considering using a charge controller with a higher charging capacity. We won’t know the answer until delta features are known and specs published.

        I believe the Aptera engineering team will do a good job of tradeoff analysis and will select the right charger base on the efficiency of the whole system. Given the Aptera’s efficiency, a 3.3KW charger is not undersized.

      • J.P. Morere

        Member
        September 30, 2022 at 9:49 pm

        I too would expect 6.6-7KW Level 2 charging as is common with many other EVs. My concern comes from Chris Anthony stating 3.3KW as the Level 2 charge rate. I hold out hope that this is changed by the time I take delivery, perhaps even from day one.

        • Michael Marsden

          Member
          October 1, 2022 at 8:37 am

          In terms of ‘miles charged per hour’ spent charging, a 3.3kW L2 charger on the Aptera would be significantly better than a 7.5kWh L2 charger on a different vehicle since the miles/kWh is so high on the Aptera. Having said that, a higher rate would still be nice while out-and-about. When you are charging overnight, you should use a lower rate of charging where possible (for battery longevity), e.g., if you need to top up by 20kWh, and you will be plugged in for 10 hours, set the vehicle to charge at 2kW rather than the default 3.3 / 7.5 / whatever.

          At the time I seem to recall that they said it was due to a combination of weight, efficiency, and cooling. The cooling may be less relevant now, since at the time they were planning to passively cool it, but now they are using liquid cooling. So that’s one constraint that might be lifted.

          • Jonah Jorgenson

            Member
            October 1, 2022 at 8:59 am

            Some good thought here, especially on conserving battery life with lower home charging rate. It will be enlightening when delta is announced and we find out what the production charger will be.

          • J.P. Morere

            Member
            October 2, 2022 at 11:33 pm

            Saying that Aptera’s Miles charged per Hour is equivalent to or better than some other vehicle is irrelevant. Other vehicles don’t have the working range of Aptera. What I want is a full charge in the morning when connected overnight overnight to a (frequently free) Destination Charger at a hotel. 3.3 KW / 30+ MPH will leave a trip depleted 66KWH / 600 mile battery far from fully charged, making the start of the day less fruitful.

            • This reply was modified 1 day, 19 hours ago by  J.P. Morere. Reason: Dang typos
            • Jonah Jorgenson

              Member
              October 3, 2022 at 8:49 am

              This is true! The size of the battery needs to be taken into consideration. Posts up to this point have not included this variable.

  • Raj Giandeep

    Member
    September 27, 2022 at 9:23 pm

    I’m hoping for Level 2 6.6 KW or 7KW myself. I makes more sense overall.
    3.3KW is a bit slow for long distance travel like you mentioned.
    We haven’t heard for sure yet what the Level 2 rate will be.

  • Ab Reitsma

    Member
    September 28, 2022 at 3:25 am

    I think this is too low for everything but the smallest battery pack. In this Tesla owners club youtube

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=vQS1XDTPCrM&feature=share&utm_source=EKLEiJECCKjOmKnC5IiRIQhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=vQS1XDTPCrM&feature=share&utm_source=EKLEiJECCKjOmKnC5IiRIQ

    the DC AC inverters for the in wheel motors are being discussed. I wonder if it is possible to also use these to AC charge the vehicle, they should be powerful enough to process more than 3.3 kW and should also be able to process multiple phases (e.g. for EU 3 phase AC chargers).

  • Tim Aspinall

    Member
    September 28, 2022 at 4:17 am

    For charging from a home roof solar output it would be good to limit the amps to charge in the car just like Tesla do.

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 15 hours ago by  Tim Aspinall.
    • This reply was modified 6 days, 15 hours ago by  Tim Aspinall.
  • larry kaiser

    Member
    October 3, 2022 at 10:24 am

    I am very concerned about the slow charging rate at a level 2 charger. I have pointed out that the heat problem would not have to slow charging most of the year in climates other than California or Florida. It is good that Aptera will have liquid cooling and that should solve the heat problem. If a 6 or 7 KWH charging rate is still causing overheating problems the inverter could be shut off until it cooled. If it was shut off for 1/2 the time it would still charge at the same speed as a 3.2KWH. I noticed another problem the other day. There are level 2 chargers that charge by the hour, for example $1 an hour. I am certain that they don’t consider that an Aptera would charge at half the rate of a “normal” vehicle. Some owners live and charge in areas where the the cost of home charging is ~ 30 cents an hour. It is 11 cents in many parts of the country. I can see a lot of pissed off owners who installed a level 2 charger in their home and can only get half the use out of it. I would hope that Aptera would offer a 6 or 7 KWH inverter as a standard feature or at the very least an option. With a 40KWH battery and a normal inverter you could get a significant charge during dinner and a movie, dinner and a walk, or a visit to an interesting museum or what ever. With a subpar non standard crummy inverter not so much.

    • J.P. Morere

      Member
      October 3, 2022 at 9:28 pm

      I think that there will be little difference in heat generated between charging at 3.3 and 7KW, either in the batteries or the charger. I think that the biggest difference between the 3.3KW and 7KW is the size/weight and the cost. We know that both of these are issues for Aptera. Not insurmountable, but issues that they are still issues.

  • BigSky Country

    Member
    October 3, 2022 at 11:00 am

    I’m still scratching my head on why in 2022 Aptera is talking about 50 KW DC fast charging when so many others are working and and achieving faster performance. I’ve reserved the 60 KWh battery, and if I’m charging to 80% it will nearly take me close to an hour during a roadtrip. Is there something about the battery design that the charge rate is a concern? The vehicle is marketed with a “mind open why” identifying freedom as its equity. If that is the case, freedom would be to drive closer and closer to gas filling times. Even if the battery is smaller, we need better fast charging speeds than Nissan Leaf ChadeMo!

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    October 3, 2022 at 1:18 pm

    I believe it may be too early to critique Aptera charging. Only one vehicle, the gamma is on the road in the real world going through testing. The Aptera has done an excellent job engineering the Aptera under the ethos of efficiency. This includes balancing the charging rates with the rest of the vehicle feature architecture. I am willing to reserve judgement on the engineered charging rates until there is some testing data available and perhaps some new owner experience documented as well. With right to repair the Aptera can be updated post purchase if needed to remediate a consistent deficiency in charging.

    • This reply was modified 1 day, 3 hours ago by  Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: corrected spelling
    • This reply was modified 1 day, 2 hours ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    October 3, 2022 at 2:09 pm

    I’m waiting for them to announce the real charging rates before I make a judgement. The 50KW is off of an old FAQ which hasn’t been updated. They’ve improved the cooling mechanism for the battery, hopefully that means that they can charge faster. One more thing, it’s not the peak rate that matters it’s the charging curve. If they can charge at the full rate until a high state of charge then 50KW could be tolerable, as long as you can get 100 miles in 10 minutes or so then road trips can be done without any inconvenience. 100 miles is only 10KWh in the Aptera. One more thing, with the 600 mile version it should be possible to avoid DC charging altogether except on long Interstate only road trips. If you do a mix of highway and back road driving it’s practically impossible to do more than 450 miles in a day. If you are hammering it on Interstates than longer trips are possible but Interstates are covered with chargers, stopping every two hours to charge for 15 minutes and to pee is the healthy way to do a trip like that. Also on multiday trips my plan would be to stay at hotels that have EVSEs, a 6.6KW EVSE can charge the 60KWh battery overnight without a problem.

  • Jeffrey Parker

    Member
    October 3, 2022 at 4:33 pm

    @BigSky Country according to the spec sheet of the assumingly known battery cells the charge rate is 1C @ 4.85A

    So assuming a 96s 26p battery pack, that is a theoretical max charge amperage of 126A.

    126A charging at 400V ~= 50kW

    Also note the max discharge rate is 2C…

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