Aptera Headlight info

[peter-jorgensen]

Probably not on the basis of cost and complexity.

[robert-klasson]

There are many great and some not so great adaptive headlights out there. The fact that there are some bad implementations out there leads me to believe its a lot of work to get them functioning properly, so perhaps it would be better if Aptera skips it for now as too not risk delaying the car.

I have no personal experience, since my cars are too old or too budget to have them, but the adaptive headlights are one of my dads favourite new features on his new car. When they have customer cars on the road, I would seriously consider developing adaptive headlights if it was up to me.

[Sam]

Similarly to daytime running lights, I’d prefer making that call. Automated wipers would be good.

[len]

As a registered motorcycle I suppose it has to comply with a morocycle’s single mounted headlight!

At least the continuing adjacent lights seem to complete the Aptera Smile. I suppose the upcoming Gamma will show us a more production intent Aptera

(I have seen this single headlight on other autocycles too, where the lights that are “ in the position of headlights are more like running/body lights)

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Len Nowak.
• This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[george-hughes]

Headlights are not the only lighting options for establishing the size of the vehicle. The lighted flares on the edges of the wheel pants, for instance, will give on-coming drivers a good view of the width of the Aptera.

If, as you suggest, Aptera is limited to a single ‘headlight’ and that headlight is allowed ‘movement’ like a motorcycle, I would anticipate the headlight will move to follow the road like the ‘articulated central headlight’ on the Tucker.

[kerbe2705]

@George Hughes – articulated (moving) headlights are illegal in the US. Heck, adaptive matrix headlights are only just starting to be legal and they don’t actually move!

[jonah-jorgenson]

As of this year they are legal. Go figure, articulated headlight legal but not cameras in place of mirrors.

[Tom]

Hmmm… Our 2018 Subaru Outback has articulating headlights (enabled only at low speeds). Have we been illegal all these years? 🤔

[Shawgrin]

Tom, Most new vehicle have articulating head lights now. (or the option for them)

[kerbe2705]

@Jonah Jorgenson @Thomas Bushaw @Vernon Michael Gardner Note that I wrote “articulating” – meaning “physically moves with the steering”: The lights that are now legal in the US are known as “smart”, “adaptive” or “matrix”. These lights do not steer with the wheels: They are capable of shifting and/or adjusting their beam pattern through electronic means.

[S Patterson]

Literally this isn’t true; my 2013 Mazda 3 has mechanical adaptive headlights.

The limit is they need to operate differently at different speeds.

[jonah-jorgenson]

Adaptive headlight(s) perhaps on next version of Aptera, but not on the current version production model. No time for the reengineering and activating a supply chain for this feature intime to include it, and as Peter Jorgensen says, to complex and expensive. Also additional unneeded weight.

[norman-roberts]

I believe the center light is only to meet regs, same as the mirrors. I think there will be left & right lights as well. One center light would not be safe for night driving . Solo 3 wheel vehicle has 3 lights 1 in center too meet the regs

[kerbe2705]

@Norman Roberts – it depends upon the makeup of the headlight: Some have very wide, focused spreads from multiple internal reflecting surfaces and lenses. The current body renderings show only the one, single light – all the rest is lightbar and DRL lamps.

[norman-roberts]

In the webinar Jason indicated that they would have some reveal of the headlights and logo light soon. Hope that will confirm the lighting

[OZ.]

The requirement doesn’t seem to be for a single headlight, but probably a certain placement requirement. Arcimoto’s headlights were originally where the amber turn signals are, but regulatory requirements forced their movement inward into the current position for the production vehicle.

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  OZ (It's OZ, Just OZ).

[len]

Yes the Red autocycle I attached is a Solo, registered as s motorcycle, like Aptera

And just more , by state “about the lights”

https://www.motorcyclelegalfoundation.com/state-by-state-guide-to-motorcycle-laws/

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Len Nowak.

[Sam]

Been digging around but can’t find that video, it was Chris Anthony himself who said he had to change to a single headlight per requirements.

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

Is it truly a single headlight ? Looks brighter on the sides and just illuminated in the middle

How many headlights do you see on the Polaris slingshot ? Seems like more than 1 is perfectly legal

[len]

That is Aptera’s First alpha vehicle “ Noir” We only have renderings if the Gamma

I also attached in my old thread the production model of Electrameccanica’s “ Solo “ A autocycle so single center mounted headlight and their front running it body lights “look like headlights “ only

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Len Nowak.

[Sam]

That bank of horizontal LEDs making up the present headlamp is much better than the round cyclops I thought I saw before.

Hopefully in the next reveal we’ll see the addition of vertical LEDs on the wheel covers that perhaps turn on or brighten when a turn signal is activated.

[ellen-tamura]

I agree. The lights on the wheel covers could be larger and brighter for better visibility at night, so other drivers can see where the car actually ends, to reduce the chances of collision.

[jonah-jorgenson]

There should be nothing on the wheel pants that would perturb their aero efficiency. Larger lights in the front of the wheel pants will do that. I believe there will be no problem seeing and Aptera coming toward you in an opposite lane without large lights on the wheel pants.
If the vehicle passes safety testing and meets state requirements for its class it will be safe to drive.

[kerbe2705]

@ellen-tamura The issue with “larger and brighter” lighting on the wheel pants is that the light would distract the driver at night: Note that any lights on vehicles in the driver’s line of sight at night are facing away from the driver… There’s a good chance that some of the “lights” shown on the wheel pants in the rendering are actually reflectors.

[ellen-tamura]

That’s a good point. Still, the driver wouldn’t be distracted by lights on the wheel covers’ front sides that face oncoming cars, and possibly on the outer sides as well. If reflectors are up to the job, then fine. Visibility is key to making the wheels less vulnerable to collision. Of course, I trust that the engineers at Aptera are on this.

[jonah-jorgenson]

I think there will be a center headlight in the front to satisfy some state requirements for motor cycles. That may be the cyclops eye you saw before.

[thomas-moore]

Motorcycles are required to have at least one running light and be visible from a certain distance.. Mine has a running light on the left and a high-beam on the right for two lights. I was once pulled over for a light being out; the officer didn’t know motorcycle requirements. Let me go when I showed them it was a high-beam.

[Sam]

Recessed lights is a given.

If CA doesn’t require it to be centered, please get rid of it, especially if it’s that cyclops, it totally ruins the smile and makes it look dorky.

CA requires lights to be on when riding (night or day), let it be only the centered four horizontal LEDs, lit only with the minimum required lumens for running lights. Then, when turned on, let the rest of the smile light with the same minimal lumens but full power to the wheel covers.

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Sam Adams.

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

How many headlights do you count on the vanderhall ?

I’m not buying the “it had to have 1 headlamp to be legal “ I’ve seen actual motorcycles with 2 headlights Not a single center lamp

[ROMAD]

The question was: “Is a single headlight safe?” And the answer is:

Yes, as long as it was like the “headlight” my father gave me for my bicycle. It was a landing light from a B-52!

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

Now that’s a light !!!!

The bow lamp on my sailboat is brighter than most vehicles on the road. Lmao. But I don’t hit crab traps or floating logs in the bay 🙂

[Sam]

Lol, “here comes the sun”.

This vehicle’s nearly as wide as a 40′ school bus. I can’t see a single centered light being adequate, not to see or be seen, especially on narrow 2-lane highways. Even indicator/reflector lights were to remain lit won’t be sufficient. High-beams only let you see 350′ ahead. At high-speed, that distance narrows rather quickly, for both vehicles.

[len]

My two cents…

Re

Width

It is wide at 88” to outside of front wheel covers only.

I am in a huge ranch area so we have lots of trailers and Dually trucks in our counties.

Dually trucks are usually at least 8 feet ( 96” ) can be up to 10 feet wide. ( side view mirror not included! )

Even my mid size truck, which I will sell when I get my Aptera, is 91” to outside of side view mirrors

So my Aptera will fit a little easier in my garage.

Mid mounted headlight

We don’t know the details around this yet. Because it is registered as a motorcycle, so it has to be center mounted. “We see” that there are other lights. too!

The attached picture of the Noir was the old front light design. We only have the center mount “ renderings” of the upcoming Gamma

They say what they have planned is compliant

My present ICEs are both 2017 and they have “some lights on” full time. Some of our state’s highways require that our headlights are on all the time through our “Safety Corridors”. So “if” Aptera’s lights are on full time.. Great!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯

I really must be getting old… I can’t remember the last time I drove at night🤔

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

I drive at night every single day , through horse farms … that have more deer than horses. If a single is to be safe for night driving , it has to have a wide illumination area. And not a pencil beam , or I’ll be hitting more deer than I ever shot while hunting

[Biker]

How do bikes get by with a single headlight at night?

[Sam]

Well, I just hope they realize the need to have them further apart, like on the Noir, at the very least. If you must, add a center light, surely there’s no maximum law.

We need to see the full path ahead, not just the center. And oncoming traffic needs to know we are very wide, those expensive motors are out there under those wheel covers.

Sometimes merely being compliant isn’t enough.

CA requires motorcycles to have their lights on when rolling down the road, night and day.

[steven-g-bueche]

I understand the center light for compliance. It’s the motorcycle classification and we can’t get around it. But, knowing what we know from previous models there will be additional lights left and right to complete the Apteras image.

Don’t sweat this little feature, we’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Remember, our renders aren’t always very accurate.

The lights on the wheel pants follow the design and will be more than enough to show the width and length of the car. These will be the same as those blinking turn signal lights on your mirrors.

• This reply was modified 8 months, 2 weeks ago by  Steven G. Bueche.

[ROMAD]

And I’m sure there is some way to disable the center light leaving the side ones working.

[steven-g-bueche]

As this is classified as an Autocycle you would be in violation and opening yourself up to tickets with any cop who knows what you are (3 wheels alone would give you away)

So what’s the big deal, you’ll have three lights out front instead of two?

I’m more concerned about that cup holder. lol Already have a place to make my own insert.

[ROMAD]

Because unlike a narrow motorcycle, the Aptera is wide enough to require two separate headlights near the widest part of the vehicle just like a normal car. Make the lights at the side of the body the headlights for nighttime driving and the center light a lower power DRL for the daytime. If I have to have an extremely bright single light, I should probably see if I can source another B-52 landing light! 😁

[Riley]

I will be installing fog lights at the front of the wheel pants to give a bright and obvious indication of how wide the vehicle is at night. I’m not convinced the top mounted marker light will be adequate for oncoming traffic to properly see and have time to adjust before passing. My plan is to mold low power LED lights into the removable bumpers at the lower front of the wheel pants and power them with the existing power being sent to the marker lights.

[steven-g-bueche]

Are you assuming they don’t have their lights on as well?

I’m sure that light strip will have bright LED’s inside. Most new cars have them and they provide more than adequate brightness. The amount of space you’re talking is like 6″ from the strip to the outer wheel pant at the most.

I like your idea of molded lights in those removable front and rear wheel pant pieces though. More bling to bling. Might as well look into the Back wheel covering for additional accent lighting. It would pop for sure. How do you plan to supply power to them?

[Riley]

Try gaugging the size of an oncoming car at midnight on a dark country road with their headlights pointing right at you while passing at a combined speed of 110mph.

The amount of available power depends on if the Aptera will have 12v being sent to the lights already on the wheel pants. If its not a suitable power source than I will have to run additional wires.

[steven-g-bueche]

I like the look in your photo.

Based on the latest webinar talking with the wheel pant designer there appears to be enough room for this, With an impression of the removable front wheel pant, I can see molding/3D printing a base and then clear lens to mimic the original shape. This way you keep the airflow while adding the lighting. Sweet idea all the way around.

[Pistonboy]

Motorcycles are required by law to have their headlight on “all the time”. On my early bikes, the headlight would be on whenever the ignition key was turned on. On later bikes, the engine had to be running. I don’t know what the Boolean equation for headlights looks like today. All of this is in the name of making the motorcycle more visible to motorist on the road. There was even a period when the headlight pulsed and sparkled like a Christmas tree ornament. (Thank goodness that period is over.)

Since the Aptera is a motorcycle, it too must adhere to that requirement. Earlier versions had a “vertical” row of lights on each side of the hood. The latest gamma version has a single headlight in the center. I guess the earlier version counted as multiple lights to the department of motor vehicle gods who said “NO! They must be grouped as one!” Since it is useless to argue with authorities, Aptera Motors complied, and made one big light in the center. However they did extend “running” lights curving upwards, creating a smiley face where the old headlights formerly were. Perhaps this smiley face is intended to match the smiley face of the yoke.

What lights will be on when the vehicle is operating and when? There are headlight, smiley lights, wheel shroud lights, tail lights, glogo lights, and probably others I have missed.

What about interior lights? Overhead lights, lights that shine down on the ground from the door when entering or exiting, others?

(Too bad there is no antenna to attach a racoon tail to. But there always are fuzzy dice for the rear view mirror, er, I mean screen.)

[vernon-sinnott]

As of September 2021 the <cite>Canadian Vehicle Lighting Regulation</cite> will require that all new vehicles sold in Canada have one of the following:

• tail lights that come on automatically with daytime running lights
• headlights, tail lights, and side marker lights that turn on automatically in the dark
• a dashboard that stays dark to alert the driver to turn on the lights

This standard will apply to all new vehicles (cars, trucks, SUVs, 3-wheeled vehicles, motorcycles and heavy trucks).As of September 2021 the Canadian Vehicle Lighting Regulation will require that all new vehicles sold in Canada have one of the following:

tail lights that come on automatically with daytime running lights
headlights, tail lights, and side marker lights that turn on automatically in the dark
a dashboard that stays dark to alert the driver to turn on the lights
This standard will apply to all new vehicles (cars, trucks, SUVs, 3-wheeled vehicles, motorcycles and heavy trucks).

[Pistonboy]

What is going to be the turn signal lights in front?

[Riley]

Lights on wheel pants is my assumption.

[Riley]

If there is a light that is on when I don’t want it to be I will install toggle switches or just leave them permanently unplugged such as glowgos and the smiley parts of the headlight.

[kevin-queen]

In Ray Holan’s nicely transcribed meeting with Jason Hill (https://aptera.us/community/discussion/jason-hill-speaks/), Jason mentioned the following regarding their headlight efficiency over most auto headlights:

There will be a center headlight cluster. Jason: “Central headlight is a legal requirement (for motorcycles and autocycles); all elements need to be around the centerline of the vehicle; our headlight efficiency is north of 50% while most auto headlights are 25-35%…(on avoiding placement of headlights on the angled surfaces on the far left and right of the Aptera body) pushing through angled surfaces, performance goes way down.”

Do we have any more information on this yet? Do they plan to use a less-bright headlight to accomplish the same illumination as standard headlights due to the efficiency, or can we expect the headlight to light the road that much better than what we’re use to in most cars we drive today?

• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Kevin Queen.
• This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

Jason C Hill Speaks…