Aesop’s Fables: The Tortoise & the Hare

[cga]

Pretty funny that you lump Rivian in with the big guys (legacy auto) and leave Tesla out. Your point is good that Aptera is not in competition with full-size vehicles, but creating a new transportation mode. If you consider Rivian successful (they just produced their 25,000th vehicle today) even though they are not making money yet, then there are lessons to be learned. One, and the important one I think Aptera is following, is to get it right before releasing the vehicle.

[ray-holan]

Hi, Charles. You’re right. My list of Big Guys is not dead nuts accurate. I was thinking of “big” in the sense of big capitalization. That’s why Rivian came to mind.. Leaving Telsa out was an inadvertent omission on my part.

[craig-merrow]

The ethos of Aptera is, for me, what makes it worth the wait, although I think we’re all like kids at Christmas waiting for it🙃

[christopher-barrett]

Christmas might be soon; Bruce Nelson says the ATVM loan will most likely be granted! Santa is coming to Carlsbad!

[old-boot]

Who is Bruce Nelson?

[john-malcom]

He is a long time ambassador with a close relationship to Aptera. Background is thermal dynamics. he was ill recently. Good to see him back!

[len]

I understood “”Iowa Nice” after meeting Bruce too!

[Greek]

Can anybody clue me in as to why his videos reflect Bruce as Iowa APTERA while he lives in Arizona?

[len]

He is in Iowa. He lived elsewhere!

[jesthorbjorn]

I try to moderate my recurring disappointments with the delays and doubts in Aptera production with the bigger picture notion that what we really need to see is movements like Aptera, even if Aptera itself flounders. Specifically modern technologies in the service of efficiency, reduced consumption, etc. rather than just easing and adding new fangled flair to the same old, ever increasing consumption.

That’s why I have invested in Aptera. And also why I reckon those investments are money well spent, rather than an assured means acquiring still more money in the future. The investment is in the future I want to see, not just the car. Money where my mouth is.

Obviously I would be most happy if Aptera succeeds and definitely want to find myself behind the yoke of my own. All sorts of emotions bound up in that and the roller coaster ride that we have been on so far. But a bigger picture too.

[john-malcom]

👍Good points at a bigger picture level. Glad to see a poster think that way.

[Markus]

As long as the tortoise doesn’t starve to death on its way to the goal I’m just fine.

Considering that the solar version of the Aptera started in 2019 we are complaining on a very high level regarding waiting time. Most if not all other EV startups (including Tesla) took longer to get into serial production than Aptera is heating to, and some are in way more serious danger to fold up than Aptera is. We probably are a bit spoiled by Aptera’s relatively open communication about their progress, no legacy automaker, and only few startups are so frank with their pre-order holders. But yes, I’m “suffering” too!

I’m just hoping that the global economy sentiment will open bigger investor’s wallets rather sooner than later as Aptera can’t hibernate indefinitely.

[BigSky]

I have been trying to internalize these last 2 days and while I generally agree with Steve and Chris’ arguments, there is one thing that really bothered me.

First, I think we should still applaud progress because this company really needs to move toward production urgently. Picking 1 variation is prudent to allow them to work through manufacturing kinks. It is also wise to simplify the first edition to enable this. Lightyear got through production at tremendous cost to first adopters. Aptera is doing this through feature tradeoffs. And based on the chatter it looks like there are plenty early adopters willing to forego some features to get their hands on one. If that is the case, it is not bad news to leapfrog into the market for those people while buying the company time to further their development.

Now what I found unnerving is how the messaging is being handled on DCFC and the confusion it generates. Steve first indicated that they don’t think we really need it. Then, he explained the cooling issues with it. Then, I am hearing they will bring DCFC as an upgrade in the future. I am assuming they have known this for quite some time. Why spring this on us now when they could have told us many months ago and given us time to absorb it. If they feel we don’t need it, are they even working on it right now? If skin cooling is a limitation, is the efficiency of skin cooling prioritized over DCFC capability? I am left actually wondering what their thinking is right now.

I will not be changing to the Limited Edition. I might have considered it if I actually needed a car, but I can wait until I find the vehicle that meets my needs. As of right now, I am waiting ~12,000 in the reservation line for a 600 mile. All I have learned these past 2 days is that I will likely move a little farther back in line while I continue to see how they work to get into production. How they are choosing to startup is not a major empirical change for me and many others.

The real question is are they serious about DCFC? With the confusing messaging, what have they done to date to give us confidence that they are working on it? What problems need to be solved to bring it? Where does this fit in their priorities?

We have been following Aptera’s story and enjoyed their transparency. The DCFC buried in the reveal did not feel transparent and, therefore, left me feeling uncomfortable.

I am really glad for all the people switching to the Limited Edition and I continue to hope for the company’s success.

• This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by  BigSky Country.
• This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[Greek]

If I remember correctly, it takes approximately 2 years to develop a heat pump for a particular vehicle. Last year there was a conversation that a heat pump would help to cool the batteries during charging, heat the interior of the vehicle and in the summer also cool the interior. Should APTERA have waited another 2 years after the Delta reveal to start production?

Let’s not forget that the Delta reveal 3 months after Gamma is not the same build. Last spring is when APTERA started their relationship with CPC. Until the final reveal of Delta, maybe they had an opportunity to work on developing a heat pump during development, how much longer would it have taken for them to get the vehicle to market. We wouldn’t be having this conversation right now because there wouldn’t have been a Delta reveal.

The vehicle isn’t the problem, it’s the inexperience of APTERA’s communication and at the end being more forthcoming. Others have said it and I will repeat it….we need to show a bit more patience. Level 3 charging will eventually be available. Let’s get the Launch Edition out and get this company into a good position for an IPO which will help increase development of future iterations of APTERA. The Launch Edition is just the 1st iteration.

[john-malcom]

👍 I wish you would have made the last paragraph BOLD TEXT

[ray-holan]

BigSky, very useful and well-presented post. I am on the fence about switching to the LE. I don’t really need the DCFC based on my intended use of the Aptera. My wife and I plan to keep her trusty Subaru for longer trips.

One thing that’s being overlooked is the significant range that the LE provides out of the box. For example, I can make the 5 hour trip from Cleveland Ohio to Chicago Illinois on one charge. I’ve heard folks labeling the LE a commuter car due to lack of DCFC. The 345 miles to Chicago is one heck of a commute;)

The lack of DCFC (at least initially) is suspiciously similar to the yoke controversy.

It seems that this obviously polarizing announcement should have been thoroughly thought through and been accompanied with the practical and technical factors that influenced it plus an acknowledgement that missing DCFC was a regretable development. Steve’s comment (i.e. we don’t think most people need it) during the webinar came off as somewhat dismissive — although I’m sure it wasn’t intended that way. I think we have gotten used to a high level of transparency with Aptera and unfortunately, this bump in the road came off as “don’t look here, look over there” marketing-speak.

I continue to be a strong Aptera supporter nonetheless. It will be an interesting year!

[john-malcom]

👍Agree SO MUCH with you specs on what should have been in the official announcement!

[Lou]

Ray,

I appreciate fact that you and perhaps decent number of reservation holders are fine with no DCFC if you have second vehicle for longer trips or if such trips are rarely made. However, I want to remind everyone that a 400 mile LE is not going to get you 400 miles on a trip. It’s been made abundantly clear that it’s best to keep EVs between 10-80% or perhaps 20-80% of full charge. Under ideal conditions, that reduces the LEs effective range to around 240-280 miles – far short of your trip to Chitown! Take that trip on a cold or very hot day and that range will drop considerably more. Likewise, traveling at highway speeds in excess of 60 mph will no doubt reduce actual range as well. Nope, lack of DCFC will be a bigger issue than you might think for any trips over 200 miles. Hence the heartburn being expressed by many!

[john-malcom]

A dose of reality from a respected poster with a strong applicable background and obviously understanding expected battery charging profiles and real world travel degradation.

Glad to see you back.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

Oh yes, I am patient indeed to wait for my right Aptera. That is why I recently switched to a 600mi, from 400mi (after option cost adjustments). I have a gut feeling that the 400mi will stay as is, without DCFC (pack engineering is a done deal; costly for rework plus time; Aptera pushing the LE model is proof). Same probably (without DCFC) for the smaller 250mi pack (2nd inline into production; even faster to fill with L2 anyways). Aptera must be buying enough time to engineer the 3rd to the last larger 600mi production, with DCFC and then finally the last 1000mi variant (if ever made).

[john-malcom]

Hmmmm some considerations I had not thought of and apparently other technical posters. Thanks for the thoughts heads up! I do not want an LE configuration and will wait for my desired configuration. Apparently a long way off even though I reserved in December 2020. I need fast charging and hopefully by the time they manufacture my configuration it will be included. Hopefully, no more expected features will be deleted from an LE. But getting to production with any equipped Aptera is the biggest priority. Redeeming of course is that any charging of an Aptera is fast and efficient compared with other EV charging at the same levels (1 and 2)

[ROMAD]

You’re wrong about no DCFC in the 400 mile Aptera. It is there in the LE so I doubt Aptera will remove it if you order a non-LE 400 miler. I originally ordered an Aptera Sol FWD with full solar and the Enhanced Audio. The LE has only AWD and is Luna skinned but after a little thought and number crunching, I changed my order to the LE. I figure I can easily have the Luna wrap covered with the Sol wrap.

[Kamakiri]

I think John has not noticed the dates of the posts above. But along those lines, Chris M. did clarify no heated/cooled seats on the LE (recently in a DTL video) Something I can certainly live without, but not so sure others can or will.

[ROMAD]

I agree regarding the seats, though I have heated & cooled leather seats in my 2005 VW Jetta; heated in the summer & cooled in the winter! 🤣 Seriously, it does have electrically heated front seats which I’ve used in the winter, though I could do without them.

[Kamakiri]

Haha. Thanks for the correction! 👍 I guess when I heard no cooling…I incorrectly thought of both.

[Shawgrin]

I am all in favor of the tortoise. Especially the one in the Bugs Bunny cartoons with the hidden rockets under the shell. Many of us have invested time following and/or money in Aptera. It is always nice to hear that progress is being made. Even setbacks are good to hear about. Without some information more often our minds run wild with “what ifs”. My what if is the next generation Tesla model 3. For me it could be a race to see what comes out in the next 6 months to a year. The more official news (good or bad) I hear, the better I feel about my investment.

[craig-merrow]

I also recall that the tortoise schooled Bugs Bunny on the aerodynamic superiority of the tortoise shell versus the aerodynamic drag of those long rabbit ears 🙂

[Shawgrin]

So true Craig, I forgot that part.

[john-malcom]

Interesting perspective. Certainly wisdom that hearing something from Aptera, not so much the speculative posters on social media and the Aptera forum, is an indication that activity is taking place. Next gen (Seen driving in Germany with a local registration plate, but camouflaged) will be cheaper, longer range, and retain the Federal incentive (Maybe not the full $7,500) Then the model 2 comes along. Lower acquisition cost, range improvements, native Tesla charging benefits, and passenger capacity (Family friendly) will increase the competitive market for EVs