Aethethics

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aethethics

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aethethics

  • Aethethics

     John Malcom updated 5 months, 3 weeks ago 18 Members · 23 Posts
  • Bruce Jankowitz

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 12:14 pm

    I’m a investor and pre-order reservation holder but I’m afraid Aptera looks(3 wheeler) are just a bit outside of visual norms for mass adoption. Although I do like and appreciate the level of efficiency and many excellent ideas such as the skin cooling, usable solar, composite body etc. etc. I believe more of a balance with the expected vehicle aesthetic is needed. Something along the lines of 4 wheels with a slightly degraded cd about .15 -.17. Would still be leaps and bounds better than everything else available and have superior range. I love the Aptera concept but most people I show a picture of an Aptera shy away immediately.

    I’d love to know what sort of reactions people on this forum have experienced? My personal views are different than most but I wonder if my experience of other folks is typical or unique?

  • Richard Marks

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 12:24 pm

    Many in my family think it’s really cool looking, but others are really skeptical of the acceptance of the look.

  • Guy SKEER

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 12:39 pm

    I’m an Engineer – Pretty Is as Pretty Does. APTERA is simply BEAUTIFUL!

    She Who Must Be Obeyed Thought it looked Small. I pointed Out that it was shaped and sized very closely to Our Cessna 182 Cockpit. She agreed that the Cessna was “Big Enough for us”

  • BigSky Country

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 12:43 pm

    You have to start somewhere right? I think they are starting in the right place. They are optimizing design for efficiency as battery technology continues to improve. This car will be able to do things others cannot as a result. As battery tech gets better they can afford to give up more Cd. The design is polarizing for sure, but the 600 and 1,000 mile versions will game change any range anxiety for longer trips.

  • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 12:52 pm

    Bruce, changing to a four wheel version of Aptera was tried before in the 2008-2011 iteration. Results were, let us say, suboptimal.

  • Len Nowak Nowak

    Moderator
    January 2, 2022 at 12:54 pm

    Every new vehicle company has to start somewhere…

    AMC chose Aptera ( which happens to work for me)

    Tesla started with just a two seater roadster and it was extremely expensive

    Not for many

    The AMC CEOs had commented on this in old videos and I think in the FAQ spreadsheet

    Basically we know the first vehicle “ Aptera” may not work for all…

    ( We have a vision of a transportation pipeline)

    We can imagine an Aptera say on one side of your garage or in one of your parking spaces and maybe a Cyber Truck in other ( if that works for you) But… we hope your Aptera is your preferred Go To vehicle because it is just fun , easy to jump in and out of , to do your daily things yet with amazing range and possibly free miles sitting in your place

    My wife is waiting for something in AMC’s pipeline but…Wants a ride in my Aptera!

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 2:05 pm

    The Aptera is not intended for mass adoption. It is a specialty vehicle for people who want ultimate efficiency or who need the benefits (solar charging, flexible level one and two charging, mostly) that that efficiency can provide. To dilute its efficiency in a likely futile and definitely expensive pursuit of mass appeal would likely doom the company again, as it did in the past.

    Part of Aptera’s innovation is their pioneering materials and their assembly process, which are intended to make production profitable at low volumes. Once they establish a profitable base building a relatively niche vehicle for which there is no competition, then, if they choose, they can expand to trying to compete with established automakers for the mass market with a less efficient vehicle that is more within “visual norms”, whatever those are.

    Honestly, in a world filled with non-functional “Predator” grilles, I think the Aptera has nothing to apologise for, aesthetically.

  • Scott Price

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 2:30 pm

    Bruce, most people have been very interested in learning more, though many realistically would not necessarily buy one. I usually receive variations on “cool” for the looks and “wow” for the tech specs. My 12 year old daughter really really wants me to get one so she can show up to events in it (good sign for the next generation ???? ), though it is a tougher sell for my wife since it does not provide family transportation. I will probably need to keep our two current family-supporting cars and this will be a third car, which is not ideal but it is what it is. Primary negative comments received from others have been that it only carries two people, lateral views are obstructed by the mid-window frames, and risk averse uncertainty about being the first model from a startup company with unknown future/support/parts/etc. if the company doesn’t make it.

    Fortunately, no car has to convince or appeal to everyone. It just needs to appeal to enough people to continue a viable business and meet its particular need even if it does not meet the needs of “99%” of other people in the world (since “1%” is still a lot of people and cars in the world). As an investor and someone who wants the company to continue long into the future, I do believe that 4 wheel variants which carry more people will be an important part of the company’s long term growth strategic roadmap, though a two seater can still meet different needs in its own way both now and in that future. The current design may help set the stage through wow factor and hopefully positive ownership stories. This can help propel success for other model variants in the future.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 3:19 pm

    The space ship aesthetics is what sets them apart. The world doesn’t need yet another CUV/SUV, there are a million of them and they all pretty much look the same. The looks and the range are the two things that distinguish the Aptera, in the long run it will just be the appearance. By the time they are shipping in volume Tesla will have the 4680s in everything, a Model 3 with > 400 miles of range plus the Supercharger network completely solves the range issue. That will happen in 2023 and no later than 2024. By then the CCS network won’t be so terrible either which will pretty much eliminate range as a selling point. That leaves looks and that’s a place where Aptera stands out. They will need to do a four wheel four passenger version at some point but it will still have to look like a space ship, if it’s looks are at all common they won’t sell any.

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 4:47 pm

    I understand the original poster’s view. The design is polarizing. I am all in as an investor and reservation holder. For me, the body design with its dolphin-like shape is what I like about the aerodynamics. The wheel skirts are an accepted ‘necessary evil’ in my opinion. They don’t match the rest of the vehicle’s lines. I actually like the original Aptera wheel skirt design as it had some curving edges at the bottom that at least gave the wheel skirts some match with the body lines. Yes, I get it that the skirt design and distance from the body were based on computer design to limit drag. But, they just look like they don’t belong with the body. Perhaps some 2-tone color scheme on the side of the skirts with a swooshing transition that would tie in with the body better??

    • Len Nowak Nowak

      Moderator
      January 2, 2022 at 5:48 pm

      Maybe the off road wheel covers ( fairings ) will offer that change without giving up too much aerodynamics

  • Joel Smith

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 5:31 pm

    I don’t think that norms and their application as a driver for mass adoption are the operative paradigm here. Frankly the market is already rapidly saturating with new EVs that look just like the same old ICE vehicles that they are hoping to replace. That’s down to including the ridiculous faux grills and air scoops! I recognize that lots of consumers buy into that status quo and that’s who the big car companies are trying to nudge over.

    I see the role of Aptera as different. Many folks recognize that there is a desperate need to push the normative needle away from the ever more massive, do everything bricks auto maker’s have been selling us, towards more efficient vehicles. Aptera is going to provide that in an unmistakable, way out on the fringe sort of way. The very act of being out on the road (need I say, looking so very cool!) and making at least some people say, “Wow! What’s that? I want me one of those!”, will cause the bounds of what is normal (even possible) to shift in the minds of a lot of people.

    A book I read a decade or two ago called that a “Blue Ocean strategy” and I am betting the Aptera will nail that in a significant way. That’s what I am in for.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      January 2, 2022 at 6:40 pm

      Joel Smith nails it: This isn’t a vehicle designed to be “aesthetically pleasing” – Aptera’s form is dictated by its function. The point of this vehicle it to determine just how efficient a functional vehicle can be. It’s not aimed at “mass adoption” – certainly not with a plan to build 10K units per year – but there are dozens of 2-seat 4-wheelers on the market that sell very, very well and have nowhere near the Aptera’s cargo-carrying practicality.

      “Common knowledge” may be that everyone wants a vehicle that “fits in” with all the other vehicles on the road but, if so, why is the customization market an $8B industry in the US alone? So maybe this “common knowledge” is really just metathesiophobia. I am reminded of the scene in “The Life of Brian” in which the title character declares to the assembled multitude, “You are all individuals!” and the crowd responds as one voice, “Yes, we are all individuals.”

  • Nathan Bendall

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 8:34 pm

    If we make the Aptera 2e to be a four wheeler vehicle rather than a three wheel vehicle, I guess we could make the Aptera 2e to run on Gas instead of on electric? People do not know what they want until it become popular with the rest of the public.

    • Scott Price

      Member
      January 2, 2022 at 8:48 pm

      Nathan, I believe the reason for general discussion/interest in a future additional 4 wheeler model is not actually the number of wheels. It is the broader interest and higher overall market potential of having a 3-5 seater, which is more feasible with a 4 wheel car that would hopefully take the high efficiency approach of the first Aptera forward to more people. The broader market has long demonstrated that at least 4 seats is what the large majority of car owners “want”, though there is also a smaller subset market of people willing to own a 2 seater.

  • Llewellyn Evans

    Member
    January 2, 2022 at 9:16 pm

    Hi Bruce, Don’t worry, they are going to sell as many 3 wheel roadsters as they can make. 4 Wheelers sound good, I am sure they will sell plenty if they decide to make them.

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    January 4, 2022 at 6:20 am
  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    January 7, 2022 at 7:42 am

    Engineer here also – I think it looks amazing. The other cars on the market are just brick shaped blobs that all look the same. I wish more looked like Aptera! It reminds me of a sailplane or high performance glider. It looks incredible.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      January 7, 2022 at 8:06 am

      If more looked like an Aptera then there would be nothing special about it, I don’t want more cars to look like it and I’d bet that you wouldn’t want more cars to look like it either. There was an early Simpson’s episode where Homer designs a car. The car came standard with a plastic ball on it’s antenna so that everybody could find their car in a parking lot. (Remember whip antenna’s, that’s how old the episode is).

      • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  Joshua Rosen.
  • Bruce Jankowitz

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 11:02 am

    Thanks to everyone for their replies. That said I feel the intent of my post has not been fully addressed. I am not as concerned about folks on this forum’s view, we are all ardent supporters. My post was more about the re-action when presenting Aptera to others. One of the comments I have received was that I should have a batman costume on when I arrive in it.

    Original question below:

    “I’d love to know what sort of reactions people on this forum have experienced? My personal views are different than most but I wonder if my experience of other folks is typical or unique?”

  • George Hughes

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 5:52 pm

    When I first discovered the Aptera, I felt that it was odd in the same way that the VW beetle was odd back in 1959 when it came to these shores horribly underpowered, notably small and unequivocally ugly. Not only did the bug have to overcome those objections but it also had the reputation that it was the product of Nazi Germany and would folks buy Hitler’s ‘peoples car’?

    The point is the only advantage the VW had over the Aptera was it seats four yet it redefined what a car look likes and performs for the past 60+ years selling 21.5 million world wide, nearly all in the last 60 years.

    If you think you can’t have that kind of success with a two-seater, check out the total production numbers for the Smart Car which in the period between 1998 and 2015, produced 1.7 million Fortwo’s. The car was not formally introduced into the US until 2008.

    I think the value proposition of Aptera is the most astounding automotive offering since flivver.

    There is nothing at all wrong with the aesthetics …

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by  George Hughes.
  • John Malcom

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 6:43 pm

    I think George nailed it!

    Aptera has a strong value proposition with the most significant factors for potential EV Buyers. Two of the biggest factors are range per full charge, and price. These two overshadow others. The third being time to charge. Of course appearance plays a role in value proposition as well so here is what I have found.

    I have attended three locally based EV events (At the city level) in FL in 2021. I have represented Aptera by informal discussions and our spec material with people attending these events which feature almost all EV vehicles in the US market in 2021. The demographics are heavily older people with higher incomes and mostly empty nesters so the demographics are representative of only part of the target market. The observations are anecdotal and small in number, so no valid or reliable conclusions can be drawn from them, but they are interesting.

    These are the stronger (More frequent) observations:

    – Have not heard of Aptera

    – After a review of our specs docs — very impressive but can it really go 1000 miles on a charge?

    – Would fit me/us (empty nesters or singles)

    – I don’t believe it will get 40 miles charge in a day with so few solar cells

    – Is it eligible for a federal incentive

    – It is unusual looking (Out of the 147 people spoken with to date only 11 had negative comments about the appearance. Most were focused on having only two seats for such a large vehicle.

    People on the forum that review my posts know I am a “Data person” I will be the first to acknowledge that these observations do not constitute a legitimate sample worth drawing conclusions from. By the time this year is over I will have a legitimate sample size for this kind of data and will be able to make a statistically significant assessment of how these and other factors play in the value proposition. The intent of course is to determine just what factors play in the value proposition and what weight each plays. Of course observations will be more legitimate when we actually have vehicles present at the events.

    Another anecdotal observation, this mine only, if it looked good enough to be in a Star Trek movie, it looks good enough for me.


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