Air Conditioning

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Air Conditioning

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Air Conditioning

  • Air Conditioning

  • Francis Giroux

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 8:27 am

    I haven’t heard any news about progress on the HVAC systen especially the air conditioning that Aptera will have. I have even wondered how I would expect them to design and build it. I don’t know if the belly pan cooling system for the batteries and motors has enough excess capacity to handle the cabin air conditioning or whether they will have to depend on taking in air from in front of the windshield to cool a condenser and then exhaust this hot air out the back vents by the license plate. I remember Chris or Steve mentioned to Jay Leno that there will be a shared cooling loop for cooling the battery and the motors, but no mention of the air conditioning. Then of course the vents/defrost outputs need to be designed. I did see in the recent video in the background a source for automotive air conditioner units, but I can’t find where I saw that. Has progress been made in the HVAC system?

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    June 2, 2022 at 9:43 am

    Hi, Francis. We know Aptera has a commitment to A/C, but we don’t have any firm information as to how that will be achieved. I’m sure we’ll hear something definitive later in the year as production gets underway.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 10:50 am

    @Francis Giroux – What @Ray Holan said and this: In the Beta renders defroster vents and what could be Model 3-style dashboard vents are clearly visible.

    It’s highly likely that the AC system will take in air below the windshield both to provide air to that cabin AND to cool itself and then flush the heated air out the rear exhaust ports.

    We also know that Aptera is actively seeking a supplier of heat pumps: One of the efficiencies of a heat pump is that it also provides AC, so one unit to both heat and cool.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      June 3, 2022 at 6:13 am

      Minor “technicality” if you don’t mind.

      Conventional “AC” is a “vapor compression cycle” – type system. It is, technically, a “heat pump”. In simplistic terms, if the “refrigerant” plumbing has a “reversing valve” within it then it is a “reversible heat pump”. I believe Aptera is not able to source suitable “automotive-grade” reversing valves.

  • EVservices .us

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 11:29 am

    Assume a transplant of the existing HVAC out of some Chery EV into the Aptera.

  • Joshua Steckenberg

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 5:40 pm

    What worries me is that without a conventional heat exchanger stack in front of the vehicle, they have to do something about the condenser that is different from any other motor vehicle on the road. Maybe a refrigerant to liquid coolant setup, but I imagine that would require very low coolant temps. I think this will be a pretty significant engineering challenge. They can’t just call up whoever makes the AC for most production cars and get something off the shelf, at least not a condenser.

    • Paul Schultz

      Member
      June 3, 2022 at 3:41 am

      I suppose they could use principles of systems used in the RV industry where there are plenty of self contained 12V AC systems.

      • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

        Member
        June 3, 2022 at 5:06 am

        Aren’t those air cooled, outside the main body of the vehicle though?

        • Joshua Steckenberg

          Member
          June 3, 2022 at 2:36 pm

          Yeah, every air conditioner/refrigerator/freezer is kind of the same, there is always a radiator looking thing that condenses the refrigerant, and because energy is removed from the refrigerant in that device it’s exposed to ambient temperature air in most systems. In normal cars it’s quite a large densely finned device and there is usually an automatic step up in cooling fan speed or a dedicated fan when the AC comes on. Aptera might end up working like one of those fully indoor portable units with a hose going to a window vent. They are horribly inefficient compared to normal units, but I suppose there might be an opportunity to make it work sort of like a heat pump with clever air ducting instead of by reversing the refrigerant flow–maybe, I’m no refrigeration engineer.

          • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

            Member
            June 3, 2022 at 4:48 pm

            Thanks Josh. My lightly sarcastic statement appears to have been taken far too seriously.

  • Darrell Cravens

    Member
    June 3, 2022 at 10:16 pm

    Yeah HVAC is very important.

    When it is 95 degrees and the dewpoint is at 72…very hot and humid.

    You darn sure better have a good air conditioner!

    Likewise, when it is 10 degrees in the wintertime and your family jewels are numb…

    You better have a good heater!

  • Gordon Niessen

    Member
    June 14, 2022 at 6:47 pm

    I wish we knew when they would be ready to switch to using a heat pump. I might we willing to wait for it. But not more than a year.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      June 14, 2022 at 8:16 pm

      @GNiessen Last we heard they were still looking for a heat pump supplier. Aptera plans to ASSEMBLE their vehicles, not to build the actual components, so it’s not a question of choice on their part: If a heat pump isn’t available when they’re ready to begin production then they will install a standard electrical AC unit and resistance heater. Once/if a suitable heat pump becomes available, they will switch over to using it.

  • Mark Dean

    Member
    June 15, 2022 at 12:05 pm

    Well for me A/C is mandatory! I live in the Mojave Desert area of California. Summer heat here on cool days can hit 110deg F. I have seen it at high as 125deg F. So if A/C isn’t included, I will have to canx my order.

    • Charles Leu

      Member
      July 4, 2022 at 3:25 pm

      Ditto Mark Dean’s comment (except that I live in AZ). A/C is mandatory!

  • Tori Harden

    Member
    June 29, 2022 at 7:07 pm

    I wonder how much the AC will reduce efficiency. I drive a Tesla Model 3 in Texas and it is no where near stated range when the AC is full blast.

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      June 30, 2022 at 8:39 am

      In my current EV running the air conditioner with blower on high consumes 950 watts. Not sure what the A/C might use in the Aptera. but if it’s similar it could lose as much as 10 miles of range for each hour of operation.

      • Francis Giroux

        Member
        July 4, 2022 at 4:50 pm

        There you go. If the air conditioner is 950 watts your power used for one hour at 60 mph (6000 watt hours) would increase to 6950 watt hours. 6950 watts per hour/60 mph=115.83 watt hours per mile, instead of the 100 watt hours per mile with no AC. So your range will drop 15.83%. Your 400 mile range without AC would go down to 345 miles with max AC. I doubt most people would be able to stand max AC for more than a few minutes. Besides that Aptera is “insulated” and with a smaller passenger compartment would not likely use 950 watts to run the air conditioner.

        Myself, being a mileage efficiency champion, I never use my air conditioner in my ICE cars because there too it causes a massive drop in mileage/efficiency.

        I remember one year (2006 I think) I bought a Saturn SC1 in Florida with no air conditioner and drove it home to New York State. Its amazing how cool you can keep your body by just keeping one forearm submersed in a container of cool water (ice added only once). No sweat. another option is to wear a cool water filled neck collar. Or keep dunking you cap in cool water. If the power ever goes out in your hot climate area, cool yourself in a room temperature bath tub filled with water out of your tap (cooler from under ground).

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