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  • Posted by george-hughes on February 21, 2023 at 6:00 pm

    Ran across this video that anticipates the low-cost entry by Tesla. It talks only about the cost structure, nothing about how it is made, etc. But that discussion basically explains the impact leasing will have in the ultimate success of the vehicles in the transportation appliance market.

    This is actually great news largely because Tesla has instantly legitimized the ‘transportation appliance market’ and will finally announce its entry… that won’t be available for three more years (yah, sure, Elon’s known for meeting deadlines 🙂

    Here’s the video entitled Tesla’s $25k car will break the Auto market.


    john-malcom replied 1 week, 4 days ago 7 Members · 16 Replies
  • 16 Replies
  • Tesla News

    john-malcom updated 1 week, 4 days ago 7 Members · 16 Replies
  • george-hughes

    February 22, 2023 at 1:12 pm

    More talk in the tesla crowd about the threat Aptera poses in the ‘economy car’ segment I refer to as a transportation appliance to differentiate between the old gas-powered/hybrid/even small EV economy cars and a vehicle designed for ultra-efficiency.

    The articles shown suggest this prospect for at least some of the investors – and that Tesla will have to buy Aptera to maintain its image as the most efficient vehicle manufacturer overall.

    Here’s the article: https://www.torquenews.com/14335/tesla-will-have-buy-aptera

    And here’s the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqlVcOxw68

    I think that people have been a little reluctant, on the basis of potential competition by Tesla’s third generation economy vehicle slated for robo taxi service when FSD is available.

    The cool thing is that Aptera will have at least a two year lead to market and we’ll see soon enough how competitive Aptera will be. The fans boys in the articles appear to suggest, Aptera will easily remain in the lead.

    • Greek

      February 22, 2023 at 2:02 pm

      I have always felt that Tesla would buy out APTERA through share acquisitions. APTERA’s production methods will change manufacturing forever. The big 4 will fight change in manufacturing all the way until they realize they themselves need to change how they build. My biggest fear is that Teslas takes control of APTERA with the purpose of shutting them down. If there is to be a Tesla acquisition, I hope it’s after my 3 APTERA’s are delivered to me.

      Wondering how many Tesla owners are investing in APTERA?

      For speculators not even interested in purchasing an APTERA, it maybe a good early long term investment to purchase some APTERA shares.

      • george-hughes

        February 22, 2023 at 2:26 pm

        Chris, Steve and the bunch have had their dream ‘bought/stolen’ and killed once before.

        The funny thing is if this market segment I identify as a transportation appliance will eventually become a robotaxi attacking the idle rate of vehicular capital at 95% (cars are idle 95% of the time) leaves me with the impression, to be confirmed a week from today, that Aptera has the better package for that including the fact that you can build them today, lease them and when the lease is over, remanufacture them with the latest self-driving capability five or ten years hence at the end of the first lease.

        It is the remanufacturing and sustainability of the Aptera platform, particularly if coupled with a proliferation of mini-assembly plants – more than a hundred in the US and easily as many world-wide; all supplied by subsystem suppliers, some of which make new stuff and others that repair and remanufacture subsystems culled from Aptera with obsolete components.

        The point is the binc, with its generational lifetime, remains the same because it is an expensive, long-lasting component that it is EASY to take apart and remanufacture with updated tech, batteries and solar panels – when the current designs become obsolete.

        Having all those small assembly plants everywhere integrates the assembly into the country and expands the manufacturing capability of the nation with a lean-design factory floor.

        Heck, you can imagine third-parties making complete subsystems with exciting new capabilities and Aptera offering these items as OEM or add-on equipment easily installed as a subsystem.

  • john-malcom

    February 22, 2023 at 2:25 pm

    Tesla would have no interest in Aptera. Tesla will have a small, cheap, EV ready for market by the time Aptera starts production in 2024. The Tesla production process is locked in and in its own right is revolutonalry. (Mega presses) The production process used by Aptera would not work in Tesla production facilities. Tesla is vertically integrated making much of the vehicle on site where Aptera assembles modules built somewhere else.

    When I visited BYD’s R&D facility in Shenzen, I saw a presentation on the Tesla 25K EV. It is pretty close! BYD may provide their blade batteries for Tesla use.

    • george-hughes

      February 22, 2023 at 2:44 pm

      I agree totally, Tesla has no interest other than possibly to kill Aptera as it raises the bar of competition in the arena of efficiency.

      I’m just getting a kick out of the reactions of the Tesla fan boys to real competition. I mean they’re used to lame response of GM 🙂

      So you’ve seen a close approximation of the vehicle. I’m sure it uses giga-castings and primarily aluminum body panels, but what kind of efficiency? Any guesses?

      • john-malcom

        February 22, 2023 at 3:43 pm

        From what I have seen in paid for competitive analysis conducted for a current vehicle manufacturer transitioning to electric vehicles, Tesla’s production is all over the map. The factors are geographical location, (Shanghai the worst because of COVID interruptions) Germany second worst, TX to new to measure accurately and it will be the site of some new models so should be excluded. CA the best. Excluding shanghai, all are more efficient that the current vehicle manufacturing based on a metrics of time and cost and process. The significant advantages of Tesla, good vertical integration, and especially the giga presses. Tesla efficiency is increasing, especially with the fielding of giga presses. Convention manufacturing of EV vehicles, static. The discriminator is that Tesla started with a clean sheet, legacy are trying to convert from ICE manufacturing and manufacturing control systems.

        Sorry, proprietary data so can’t provide numbers. The other statistically signifant factor is model. Another interesting observation in the analysis. Build quality is poor. I know that was the case with my M3 which I got rid of.

        • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by  John Malcom. Reason: correct spelling
        • george-hughes

          February 22, 2023 at 4:59 pm

          Sounds to me their transportation appliance, while probably better than the competition, will not be a leap beyond Aptera’s BinC in any stretch of the imagination.

          I think that Aptera’s approach with mini assembly plants and centralized subsystem manufacture will scale admirably and, with most of the capitalization already in place in the hands of third parties, some of which are already Aptera suppliers.

          The mini-assembly plants can largely be financed locally by local development authorities which also will minimize the capital needed to expand the assembly operations geographically.

          I think socially, this distributed approach to assembly makes re-manufacture of the near indestructible BinC allowing both hardware and software updating escaping that killer of value depreciation due to obsolescence.

          Think of it this way, if my mythical leasing company placed 50,000 Aptera in consumer hands and now 10,000 are ending their five year lease. Isn’t it cool the leasing company has a vehicle that with a $6,000 upgrade to its nav sensors, can operate as a robo-taxi. New seats and a redesign of the dash with a credit card machine and no steering wheel, you have an instant robo taxi for a fraction of the cost.

          But nothing can happen or will happen until Aptera gets into production. Then things get really exciting!

    • curtis-cibinel

      February 22, 2023 at 3:04 pm

      Lets face it this reporting is crazy speculative. They suggested Aptera should buy Tesla not for technology but for simple manufacturing space. Much as I believe Aptera has a strong future I struggle to see one in which it would increase its valuation by a minimum of 1000x or more to be in a position to purchase Tesla.

  • john-malcom

    March 4, 2023 at 8:04 am

    Article and reference to a YouTube post on experience charging a non-Tesla EV at a Tesla Super Charger. It appears that Tesla will charge a higher rate for non-Tesla vehicle charging. Makes sense to appease Tesla owners who now need to deal with growing congestion as more vehicles attempt to use super charger stations. Really good imbedded YouTube video! Watch for the experiece of several non-Tesla vehicles trying to charge at a Tesla Super Charger. At this location, most EVs are non-Tesla.


    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  John Malcom. Reason: added sentence
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
  • joshua-rosen

    March 4, 2023 at 9:33 am

    The rate is very close to the EA price, you can also buy the price down with subscription just like EA.

    • Mike-Mars

      March 4, 2023 at 10:22 am

      The subscription is probably not worth it for Aptera. The saving is $0.10c/kWh, and the subscription costs $12.99/m, which means you’d regularly need to charge $130+ each month to break even. I can imagine that an F150 could easily use that much power. If you DC charged a 40kWh Aptera that frequently, you’d probably kill the battery.

  • curtis-cibinel

    March 4, 2023 at 11:34 am

    I’m fine with Tesla charging a reasonable premium but the big question for Aptera is what chargers we will have access too. Most charging is at home (or solar) anyway so paying roughly 1/3rd the price of a gas econobox per mile to supercharge the aptera is still a drop in the bucket overall. We all hope the entire network will be open since we have the NACS plug but until Aptera or Tesla state this clearly I think we need to assume we may be limited to magicdock equipped chargers (despite not needing or wanting the adapter)

    Watching the video in the link it is really funny that the F150 would have reached far more easily if they simply had hinged the charge door on the other side. It will barely reach if parked extremely precisely.

    • john-malcom

      March 4, 2023 at 1:26 pm

      I think a many things to be clarified about using Tesla super chargers. I suspect you are correct about us being able to use only the superchargers modified for general EV charging, a subset of avaialble superchargers. The number, TBD. I am wondering if we will need to use the Tesla app or if using Tesla chargers will be incorporated into the Aptera app. Then the question of connectors. The Tesla connector alone, or one or more adapters required. It is frustrating that Aptera either doesn’t know yet or will not enlighten us about super charger charging of the Aptera after the euphoria of annoucing the adaption of NACS (To include the CCS protocol) for Aptera

      For me, (Recovering Tesla owner/driver) it would not be worth it to have a membership for the number of times I would use a super charger to charge my Aptera for all of my potential use cases.

  • john-malcom

    March 10, 2023 at 10:24 am

    US Investigates Tesla Over Steering Wheels Falling Off Model Y EVs

    For all those that think yokes are a safety hazzard, the government is investigating Tesla for some steering wheels falling off. They are not investigating yokes😉


    • Markus

      March 10, 2023 at 6:59 pm

      LOL, that’s true! And also shortly after Nissan, again steeing wheels “falling off”, not yokes!

      I have a hunch that the term “steering wheel falling off” has been redefined either by the NHTSA or whomever.

      • john-malcom

        March 11, 2023 at 2:54 pm

        I meant in jest. The problems with steering wheels falling off is a build QA issue not because it is a steering wheel vs. a yoke or some other device.

        I didn’t know about Nissan

        I am arecovering Tesla owner. Their build quality is notoriously bad.

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