Aptera charge ports

[vernon-sinnott]

Since it could be charged overnight on a standard 110 volt plug that should be included too.

[kerbe2705]

@Vernon SINNOTT Whatever automotive power port Aptera chooses to install, it will be able to accept standard US line voltage. The male connectors on the power cable don’t have to be identical to one another: The vehicle end can be a Tesla connector or a J1772 while the end that goes into the wall receptacle can be NEMA 5-15 (grounded 2-blade, 110-120V) or NEMA 14-50 (grounded 3-blade, 220-240V) or whatever adapter you choose to use.

[kerbe2705]

@Chris Merriott Actually, the latest video showed only a hole where a charge port would be…

[joshua-rosen]

It has to be one or the other, it would be overly complicated to do both. In spite of Aptera’s desire to use Tesla’s connector, a sentiment I agree with, it’s hard to imagine that they will be able to do that. They are building the gamma’s now and they still haven’t announced an agreement with Tesla. To use the Tesla connector they need to be able to buy the components, available only from Tesla, and they need to be able to use the Supercharger network which means the need to implement Tesla’s protocol so that they will be able to integrate there cars into Tesla’s payment system. Chris’s campaign to make Tesla the standard was clearing aimed at getting Elon’s attention, I don’t think he’s succeeded. If he had you would have thought that there would have been an announcement of some sort. Maybe we’ll hear something soon but we are entering the last quarter of the year, that’s not a lot of time to get things working before the launch at the end of the year or the start of next year. At some point they’ll have to hold their noses and use CCS1 as ugly as that connector is and as f**ked up as the CCS networks are.

[george-hughes]

I think it is a forgone conclusion that Aptera will use a Tesla plug for a couple of reasons beyond those enumerated by Chris.

First is the likely development of wide-ranging use of Tesla batteries/stations/vehicles in Musk’s energy venture in which users can earn probably charging credit from power companies. Tesla is poised for that eventuality because of its plug is natively capable of two-way power exchanges allowing the vehicle battery to be used to connect to the grid and potentially one’s home in the event of a power outage. My understanding is this is easier to accomplish with Tesla’s plug and possibly a software update.

Second, anyone can sign up for and, from what I read, can gain access to Tesla charging stations for $0.99 cents a month for a reduced rate or, for a premium, one can charge at a Tesla fast charger by appearing with a car capable of being charged at a Tesla station.

The videos from Chris are/were designed to puff a little smoke up Elon’s butt – because he’s hoping to be able to include Tesla-charging access to Aptera from the get go (at a better price than the public subscription rate.)

But the plain fact is, unless Tesla reneges on its public subscription offer, Aptera owners will be able to use Tesla chargers for what will likely be a $9.95 annual subscription fee paid for by Aptera for the first five years that is ‘offered’ free to new Aptera buyers. That’s almost the worst case for access.

The Tesla minions will be less concerned with Aptera owners because they are so ‘efficient’ the average charging session to boost range by 100 miles takes just over ten minutes. I mean who wants to sit at a charging station longer than that 🙂

Additionally, for level 2 and level 3 CCS charging stations, it only takes a Tesla plug adapter to make those compatible … assuming the third-party service is operating.

The point is that the Tesla plug is among those ‘tech’ innovations Musk has (Like the Mercedes-Benz patents on passenger compartments and crush zones) donated the patent rights to the public domain.

A key reason no other manufacturer used it is because none were willing to pay Tesla the price they were asking for access to the Supercharger network. One reason was because the major manufacturers were likely concerned they might inadvertently share some data to Tesla if they participated.

That fact – cost and forced data/customer sharing (they would have proprietary use of your credit card info and more on every supercharger customer) and while American consumers are largely uninterested, Detroit doesn’t want their customers to have that close a relationship with Tesla.)

For Aptera, though, the use of the Tesla supercharger network – especially given how rarely it needs to be used – is a huge benefit.

As to why this choice has not been formally announced, you can look at marketing as well.

Musk wants Aptera (I opine) to use the Tesla Plug an announce it as such under the public subscription terms Tesla has already announced. Aptera will still have to pay for the plug but they won’t have to pay a royalty for it and all Aptera owners can have access to the supercharger network under the Tesla to consumer subscription offer but will have to pay the higher non-Tesla rates just like folks with their F-150 Lightening’s and an adapter.

Of course, Aptera wants Musk to announce that there is an agreement between Tesla’s SC network and Aptera on more favorable terms than Tesla’s open subscription service.

Ideally, Aptera will pony up something like $100,000 upfront that would prepay five years of registration on the Tesla supercharger network on every new Aptera. (Owners would be responsible for any power charges incurred.) It would require that new owners register (free) and and provide credit card info. Aptera’s initial payment would include the first 25,000 registrations and Aptera would pay $25/per vehicle (half Tesla’s subscription price) for Supercharger Access for the next 25,000 vehicles.

While I have a level 2 charger with the J1772 plug, I’m resigned to the fact that Aptera will have a Tesla plug and IMHO, we’re all just waiting for the shoe to drop.

[abinitio1980]

Given they want to sell world-wide and (US) tesla connector is an anomaly (even if it has some advantages) it would seem short-sighted to get too hung up on it… unless you plan to only produce for US market and think (probably wrongly) that the Tesla (US) plug design won’t change in the coming years and decades.

[Jeff]

If Aptera is determined to locate the charge port behind the license plate, the Tesla plug might be the only DCFC option that’s small enough to fit in that location.

[joshua-rosen]

The CCS2 connector is completely different than the CCS1 connector. When they go overseas they’ll have to switch connectors anyway. In North America the CCS1 network is an unreliable mess, Tesla has the only network that just works. That’s not the case in Europe, the public networks are in much better shape than they are in the US and Canada.

Out of Spec Motoring does really good reviews, they just did a long video on the state of EV charging in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnar6YZrn4Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnar6YZrn4Y

[rupert-jung]

What really sucks, having the port on the backside instead of the front.

[rupert-jung]

I just hope they’ll move the charging port to the front for the CCS/EU version so I don’t have to drive backwards into each charging port and not being to reach the trunk afterwards.

Even better would be an option for wireless charging or a ‘charging port’ to drive your vehicle into at home (wheel-stopper + connector at the front). 🙂

• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  Rupert Jung.

[joshua-rosen]

I watched the videos, he flashed the charging port to the crowd but it wasn’t visible. Did anyone ask if they have a deal with Tesla to use the Supercharger Network and if not if they’ve got CCS ready to go?

• This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by  bbelcamino.
• This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[bruce-mengler]

I was at the Thursday Ambassador presentation & I visually confirmed the Tesla connector at the rear of the vehicle behind the License plate holder which slides to the passenger side of the vehicle.

[jeffrey-parker]

I wonder if they’ve answered the question of how they plan to charge in the EU… I guess they are planning to re-engineer the charge port area to fit the larger plug sometime down the road (always love the “kick the can down the road” philosophy. I don’t know why not just engineer it once for similar sized ports and worry about the different voltages and leads that fit in near the same size constraints.

[george-hughes]

The reason Tesla uses the J1772 plug in Europe is it is the law. Kind of like why Aptera had ‘real’ rear view mirrors in addition to the rearview cameras.

Thus, Aptera will do what they have to do.

Right now I’ve got a 40-amp 220v EVSE with the Jplug and I suspect I’ll get an adapter for it which costs about $80 at Target.

With the Tesla plug on Aptera in the US you have access to the best of all worlds as Aptera, because of its efficiency, solves the ‘charging’ issue with its multiple strategies which begins extreme conservation (100wh usage v. 700wh for regular EVs), continual sipping of electrons from the sun, access external solar panels, access to any 110v+ AC source of electricity from wall plugs to home level 2 EVSEs; as well as access to the most reliable (Tesla) charging infrastructure as well as the less reliable but more numerous Level 2 and 3 public chargers.

If that level of redundancy doesn’t solve your range anxiety, you’ll need a shrink.

[david-marlow]

Gamma has the Tesla connection. However when Chris was asked about it in the factory tour video he said that they did not yet have a firm agreement with Tesla about it. I am sure that Tesla has a patent on it. The Tesla parts that Aptera has been using so far, have come from scrapped Tesla’s.

[Biker]

@David Marlow I think Chris was talking about a deal on using the Supercharger network, not the plug itself. It seems the kind of plug Aptera uses has been settled, for now.

[markus-stephan]

What kind of charging port will be available for Germany/Europe? I made a maximum pre-order in June 2022

[Myk]

The Tesla charging stations here in Australia have the IEC 62196 or Type 2 “Mennekes” plugs, rather than the NACS plug. (What Type of Electric Car Charging Plug Does my EV need? – EVSE Australia)

So if the goal is to be able to use the Tesla charging stations for cars sold here, having an NACS socket would be completely the wrong choice. I would say European and Australia models should have a Type 2 socket. Anything else just doesn’t make any sense.

[curtis-cibinel]

I suspect for those markets they will move the port behind the glo-go.

[Biker]

It’s more official:

“San Diego, CA, November 30, 2022 — Solar electric vehicle (sEV) maker Aptera Motors has announced it will integrate the newly opened North American Charging Standard or NACS (formerly the Tesla connector) into its ultra-efficient vehicles. The NACS charging inlet and EV charging equipment will be built by Lectron, an industry leader dedicated to the widespread adoption of sustainable transportation.

On November 11, 2022, Tesla announced that it would allow other EV manufacturers to use its connector, officially renaming it the North American Charging Standard (NACS). The move was celebrated by Aptera Motors, which sees the NACS as less bulky and more powerful than its J1772 / CCS counterpart. Over 40,000 people signed the company’s petition to make Tesla superchargers and plugs the U.S. standard.

“We’re thrilled about this news and applaud Tesla for allowing and encouraging the EV industry to utilize its superior technology,” said Chris Anthony, Co-CEO of Aptera Motors. “We believe Tesla’s decision is an essential step toward shifting the future of transportation to a more efficient and greener direction, and we look forward to adopting its connector in our sEVs.”

Lectron is at the forefront of manufacturing chargers and adapters for both Tesla and J1772 EVs, which makes them the top choice for building the NACS charging inlet and EVSE for Aptera’s fleet of sEVs.

“We’re excited about the news of Tesla opening up its NACS to the transportation industry. We believe the growing EV charging market needs innovations like this which greatly benefit equipment builders and end customers,” said Christopher Maiwald, Founder and CEO of Lectron.

“We also believe in fast and efficient charging, and that sustainability is the future of transportation. That’s why we’re excited to team up with such an innovative company as Aptera Motors. With their fleet of solar EVs, they are reimagining what an EV can be in terms of style and efficiency,” continued Maiwald.

By working with Lectron, Aptera is able to leverage Lectron’s EV charging innovations and expertise to deliver a premium charging experience to their customers.”

[kerbe2705]

An animation of the port and cover… https://fb.watch/hbnEaJxl7x/

[curtis-cibinel]

Interesting. I wonder why the use of an arm rather than a simple sliding mechanism. Perhaps this will be more durable and not get dust in the mechanism.

[ROMAD]

I hope it seals the charge port to prevent moisture & dirt from getting in. Also it needs to have robust operating parts.

[craig-merrow]

Wondering if just having the plate lift up would be more effective? Might be easier to seal, and a dust seal would be easier to integrate so that it automatically covers the charge port when it’s closed.

[harry-parker]

Flipping the license plate up or down was what the original alpha prototype did. Then they were told that that was not legal in some places because the license plate must always be visible. This design is the solution to that problem.

[ROMAD]

That reason is bogus because the only time the plate would not be visible is while the fuel nozzle/charger connector is inserted. Besides there have been thousands of vehicles on the road with the fuel tank fill pipe behind the rear plate; the only reason they stopped was when the tanks were moved inside the frame for impact protection, it was easier to have a side or top fill port that far in from the rear.

[Greek]

It’s possible that because the APTERA is an auto cycle with out needing a front license plate, you would need some type of identifier for your vehicle.

[wingsounds13gmail-com]

That reason is not bogus. If the plate would flip up or down, it could be left in that position while driving, effectively obscuring it. When moved sideways, it is always visible from behind the vehicle.

Personally, I don’t really care for the charge port being behind the license plate in the first place. Yes, it is cute, using the required surface discontinuity of the license plate mount as a door, but as noted here it does pose its issues. To me, it would make more sense to put the charge port behind the GlowGo behind the driver’s door. That way it would be really obvious that the charge cable is/is not plugged in when you enter the vehicle to drive away.

[Biker]

@J.P. Morere The Tesla charge cable will barely reach the license plate location – no way would it reach the Glowgo location (unless you pull into a charger sideways and take up three stalls).

[bruce-mengler]

Is the cover to the NACS connector motor operated?

Is the cover to the NACS connector normally “locked” closed?

What exactly must the owner do to open this cover?

[kerbe2705]

@BRUCE MENGLER Just call it a “charge port” – that’s what it is.

From everything we’ve seen the current iteration is not powered and does not appear to be locked. The driver has to physically move the cover out of the way.

Most EVs currently available have manually opened spring-locking mechanisms: You press on the cover and the port door pops open. Some have motorized closing mechanisms.

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

My fuel doors have always frozen shut in the winter. But, you can always “jimmy” them open if you need to, do you think this will “Jimmy” open ?

Once again, I really don’t think aptera is taking cold weather seriously.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  James Lee.

[curtis-cibinel]

I asked my wife and my friend Dave. We are all Canadians and have lived in most provinces and climates. With a combined over 100 years of driving not once has a fuel door iced shut. This would seem to require specific conditions or design flaws. Entry doors have far more surface and an interface of different temperatures so they can freeze far more easily.

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

Here is Maryland. We get a lot of freezing drizzle , frozen frost after it starts to melt , actually we get more ice storms than snow of late, even the snow can freeze your fuel door shut here.

So again. It’s a problem for certain areas of the country or world but not for all.

Kind of like the “skinny” streets that have angered people about apteras width.

Not a problem everywhere, but still a problem.

[Normal]

The writing was on the wall when they launched that petition, but I’m glad they have come out and officially announced the use of the proprietary Tesla connector. It’s the only deal breaker for us on the car, and we went ahead and put the (manual) request in to cancel our reservation today. I had considered waiting until closer to launch to give it some time to simmer, but the lack of a self service order cancel sealed the deal on proceeding today instead. I don’t think the Tesla plug will harm Aptera much if at all in the big picture, but we had been weighing stepping back from all Musk company relationships and decided to start move forward today after having allowed for a few more weeks of data to come in. We also canceled our Cybertruck reservation (which was able to be done self service, hint hint) and will be terminating Starlink services as well as our Twitter ad spend and accounts. The Aptera is really the one that truly stings, there is no competitor, but we simply decided can’t put any active capital spend towards anything even remotely connected to Musk at this point, it is what it is.

I think Aptera is overall a great company with a great product and I wish them and their eventual customer base all the best. I put this post out there as one little data point, I don’t know if anyone keeps track of this stuff in public or private. Everyone after 207xx you get a tiny bump in the line! 👍

[Greek]

I am also not happy with Tesla plug…I don’t plan on using any Musk charging stations. I will need to by an adapter for j/plug use.

Won’t give up on the APTERA!!!

[ROMAD]

I’m glad they are using the better designed connector. The only problem for me is your departure from the queue won’t affect my place as I’m # 12172!

[Russell]

You know, the plug Aptera is installing is Tesla Compatible but is not actually being made by or coming from Tesla. Also, there are adaptors available to refuel from j1772, CCS, NEMA 14-50 and standard 110vac wall outlets. It is possible to own and operate an Aptera without giving Elon any or your dollars. Just putting this out there, I’d hate for someone to miss out on such an efficient vehicle over an avoidable matter.

[Greek]

👍 👍 👍

[jonah-jorgenson]

A Tesla-like configured charge adapter (Not made or sold by Tesla) is a deal breaker for you? You must not have a strong connection to Aptera or an appreciation for its efficiency. Seems more like “Cutting off your nose to spite your face” kind of thing. You know, of course, Elon wouldn’t give a whit about your decision even if he know about it.

[Normal]

It’s mostly a combination of two factors, adopting a proprietary plug, not great, but OK it’s not the absolute worst decision a company ever made, leaving aside the Musk risks entirely for a minute. We are personally moving away from Musk related ventures and all the related tech mostly because the instability seems likely to have potential to destabilize the business’ that are supporting things we intend to rely upon very long term. We want cars, DC charging infrastructure, communications services, marketing plans for long term planning – things we would keep and rely on for decades. Withholding a few dollars from one guy isn’t really the main point I was getting at here, or why we’ve lost too much faith in all these particular products and services.

[Qiang]

Aptera recently announced that the charging port will be sourced from Lectron. There are also a number of CCS to Tesla connectors available for around $150 to $200. You do not really have to deal with Tesla if you do not want to.

• This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Qiang Fu.

[Normal]

Thank you, we do understand there are options to adapt the port to compatibility with standardized plugs. It’s just not something we’re looking for in a long term product purchase at this time with the information available to us. There are lots of ways to kludge something together and route around something silly if it were to happen in the future with Tesla-centric ecosystem of peripheral supply chains, road trip chargers, product support. Specifically, I do not think Aptera owners will be literally stranded by this port decision, not at all.

[Jon_Arryn]

Oh Elon, blessed be. Please golden shower us with your investment riches, as we have lobbied for your connector thusly so. Musk> Who? Oh praise be, we bow down to your pluggable excellency. Musk> Who?

[ImAlwaysMIA]

Elon’s too busy pissing away his money at Twitter right now to care.