- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 11:53 am
Chris and Steve have done a great job in bringing Aptera to this point, yet, they need Cash for Production…. and are still fishing with a fishing pole to find the “Big Fish” with “Deep Pockets” to fund production. Maybe it is time to change the tactic and use a very large net to get “Little Fish” with “Many Pockets” to fund production…. here is an Idea, and some have mentioned a little about this but lets take it a little further:
1. Change starting next month, our “Reservations Orders to Purchase Agreements” and lock in the advertised price that is posted now through the end of 2022. This would stop all the fuss about price increases and if Aptera sees fit to raise the price starting in 2023 so be it. This would probably cause a rush on orders through December 2022 and this is good.
2. Next, starting in December 2022, we would now be in a “Purchase Agreement”, so then set up a “Down Payment/Stock Options” arrangement with a bank there in Carlsbad, CA with all payment options available, so that we can start making down payments on our Vehicles. This does 3 things, It gives Aptera the Company Capital Cash and we are Paying Down on our Aptera vehicle, and at the same time, make our “Down Payment” a “Stock Option Arrangement” so that this can be exercised at the time of delivery or keep it going as long as we choose. This arrangement would not replace or take away the regular arrangement for Aptera’s regular stocks. With the “Down Payment/Stock Options” arrangement”, the only minimum or limit is that the down payment amount has to match the stock price at the time the down payment is made… for instance; Now the Regular Stock is $10.50 a share, so we make a down payment of $10.50, we reduce the cost of our vehicle by $10.50 and receive 1 Stock Option and Aptera the company gets $10.50 in Capital to spend in Production. And if we make a down payment of $525.00, (50 x $10.50) we reduce the cost of our vehicle by $525.00 and receive 50 Stock Options, Aptera the Company gets $525.00 in Capital Cash to spend on Production and there is no limit to this. Doing this takes a lot of the risk out for both sides, while providing Capital Cash for production and we can make a payment at anytime. On our personal Aptera “View or Edit Your Preorder” screen the wording changes to “View or Edit Your Purchase”. And at the total cost section there is a new line for “Down Payment/Stock Options” amount so we can keep track of both how much money we have put down and how many Stock Options we have at any given time. I use the Stock Options arrangement for people who still want to invest, which provides Capital Cash, but may or may not want to take delivery for a vehicle and yet at the time of their delivery, they can exercise their Stock Options instead and invest at the going rate of the Regular Stock when the Stock Options are exercised. If delivery of a vehicle is taken, the Vehicle cost is minus how much has been put down at that time in the “Down Payment/Stock Options” arrangement”, so this keeps everything Dollar for Dollar. If Stocks go up, the “Down Payment/Stock Option” arrangement reflects the increase of the Regular Stock price… for instance from $10.50 to $15.50, I still only am buying 1 Stock Option for $15.50 but I have put $15.50 down on my vehicle and Aptera the Company gets $15.50 Cash to use in Production, and this again is unlimited. One may have made a “Down Payment/Stock Options” purchase at $10.50 or $15.50 or anywhere the current price is at the time, so that the stock options keep adding up just like the down payment adds up, but at the time one takes delivery of the vehicle or exercises their Stock Option, the Stock Option is at the going price of the Regular Stock that time, where the down payment is fixed to how much has been paid down on the vehicle matching what Aptera the Company has in Capital Cash from this arrangement.
This makes Crowd Funding A real tool for Aptera and it keeps the Big Fish out of the picture that may try to change Aptera the Company to fit their agenda. And do the math; 37,000 Reservation/ Purchase agreements nets in $1,102,600.00 for the base 400 mile version alone. Making an arrangement like this gives all of us a chance to be a part of the Company and lets us help it succeed and get our vehicles sooner no matter what our financial situation is. So, change to this arrangement or one like it and let us start making down payments on our Aptera’s and Aptera the Company will be flush with cash to start production. And after we have paid for our vehicles, keep the arrangement going so we can continue to invest in these Stock Options at the going price in the future. Chris and Steve keep full control of the future of Aptera Company and we get our Aptera’s sooner. Chris and Steve you really need to make this or something like this happen….like now. Just a thought.
- This discussion was modified 2 hours, 43 minutes ago by bbelcamino.
- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 1:45 pm
Personally, I think they need to take a clear look at their purchasing agreements and what their variable costs are after all the inflation that has taken place since reservations were started. Then, they need to update their price accordingly keeping in mind that they need to learn about the elasticity of their pricing before they communicate it.
Second, they need to finish the Delta regardless of where they are on capital investments and order timing. They don’t have a car yet although we understand it is “close.”
They don’t need to be 100% scaled up for full manufacturing on day 1. In fact, I would look to a start up to be scrappy and not let that be a barrier. A semi automated approach can get them moving. It would not be crazy to have hydraulic push carts in lieu of Viking ATVs until they arrive. It would not be crazy to deliver the first bodies with honeycomb until the carbon fiber tooling is ready at CPC, etc. The one thing I suspect may be the major issue they might not be able to overcome is the chip availability that Chris mentioned recently. That might be holding everything up regardless.
Once they actually have a car, then we can move from reservations to order down payments to help generate working capital for materials. They can easily ask for $3-5k for the actual order. $5k down for the first 10,000 orders is a cool $50 million cash infusion. On top of that, if you can sell a car, scale up can be done through cost savings with has very low risk to investment. Investors will flood in if they get to that point.
Net, finish Delta! Make 1 car per day if you have to while you continue to work the supply chain issues in parallel. This can be part of the journey, but we need to move from a car that is “close” that people are not allowed to drive yet to a street legal car, fully tested and being sold to a customer.
- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 11:52 pm
Interesting Idea. So you want Aptera Motors Corp. to start building and selling their Aptera EV to the public ASAP even if it is just 1 Aptera EV build per day to help increase investor (and public) confidence in Aptera Motors Corp.? We need to do everything and anything to help keep the public and thus shareholders interested in Aptera Motors Corp. So here is the Million Dollar Question for you. How much are you willing to spent for that Aptera EV? Are you willing to spend an extra $100,000 for your Aptera EV on top of the Retail Price? Aptera EV build at the pace of one a day are going to be extremely cost prohibitive. Only engineers, craftsmen and designers (High Skill/High Cost Workers) are going to be able to build the Aptera EV one a day. It is only when we can get an assembly line for final assembly fully up and running, we can start to use mostly unskilled labor helping to drive down cost and thus a much lower price tag. Due to labor being a major part of the total price tag. Thoughts? Thanks for your time. Nathan
- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 2:09 pm
I think that everyone understands that a big influx of cash would help speed up production, however scheems involving making the company run at a loss for two or more years would not be a good idea.
Also encouraging the cashing in of stock to purchase would also drain funds.
Aptera has plenty of orders and to get thoes orders filled at a profit will be the best thing for Aptera in the long run.
Also potential envestors will not look faverably on a company that wants to run at a loss.
- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 4:35 pm
I’m in on this idea, I’m going to buy one anyway, I could make monthly payments now and choose to take stock or pay off on delivery.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 9:10 pm
I talked to my friend who works in Business Law. Any and all customer deposits cannot be used to fund the operating costs of a business at all! Any and all customer deposits have to be deposit into a bank escrow account. Those funds can only be used to help to pay for the purchase of the product. If supporters of Aptera Motors Corp. wants to help them, they can simply buy shares of stock in Aptera Motors Corp. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan https://invest.aptera.us
- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 6:16 pm
Interesting idea but I don’t think, even with over 37000 reservations, the dollars involved are still relatively paltry given a bunch of the 15,000 investors got one, two, three or more ‘complimentary’ reservations. At a net realized $80 avg. the total held is only about $3 million.
The reality is that there are what, six subsystems including the body, battery, seats/interior fixtures, electronics and controllers, motors and suspension and solar each of which are a production puzzle. They’ve reported on all of these subsystems but in some cases the information is sketchy.
Each of these subsystems could be bid as a single unit to a third-party supplier or could be assembled into the subsystem by Aptera personnel in a pre-assembly operation. This latter approach has had the scrutiny of Monro to simplify the parts for ease of production. We also know the point of Monro’s business is costing of automobiles down to the cost of the fasteners needed for trim pieces.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the prices we see today were conjured up with Sandy Monro’s considerable expertise in pricing manufacturing processes to the penny including labor.
This can only mean that the design, from sub-assembly processes to the final assembly, was all made with the idea that the target prices were as stated.
The sad thing about overall inflation is that while I think the margins exist with the current pricing, it would be undeniable that those margins have shrunk enough to raise the question.
The really bad aspect is these reduced margins are not just reduced, but further reduced by the fact of inflation and the smaller buying power of the remainder. The problem is you need to basically double the decline in margin to account for in decline in the value of money at the future date.
I think one of the unheralded accomplishments is that this team at Aptera will, with the delivery of their first vehicle, launched a vehicle capable of passing and exceeding all applicable safety car standards for under $100 million; a task that at major manufacturers, would cost in the multiple billions.
Still, with the bulk of the stuff either in-house or under contract, there is still a lot of stuff … whether it be tires or windshield wipers or paper floor mats for delivery.
We all instinctively know the ‘to do’ list remains enormous. Maybe those in PR can inform us of the holdups and holdups! All I’ve gleaned is that they’re somewhere between 80-95 percent ‘there’ … and presumably just waiting for money to close some final deals.
The Aptera ‘assembly’ factory is every bit as much a ‘high performance machine’ as the Aptera its self. It is designed to literally spit Apterea out the end with the minimum amount of energy and resources as inputs. Investors have expectations too 😉
And as long as they don’t make perfect the enemy of good, this process will work profitably. This is going to happen. The sooner the better but let’s do it right.
- This reply was modified 6 days, 19 hours ago by George Hughes. Reason: remove html
- ModeratorNovember 23, 2022 at 6:28 am
Thanks for presenting your idea in such detail, Mickey. Let me throw one more idea into the mix.
Aptera has an estimated 37K reservations. I’d be willing to submit a $1,000 down payment even though the vehicle has not yet been built. I know there are legal objections to doing this, but hear me out.
Let’s say 25k of the 37k reservation holders would be willing to pony up $1K each. That would amount to $25 Million. Small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, but maybe enough to jump start Aptera production.
- MemberNovember 24, 2022 at 12:09 am
A $10,000 purchase of Aptera stock gives a 5% discount. I’d rather put a $10,000 down payment, with maybe a larger discount because it’s a basically a loan, and a bump to the front of the reservation line. I want to support Aptera, and help them along into production, but i have no interest in the volatility of stocks, even if there is a chance to make money at IPO. What I want is an Aptera as soon as possible. I’d probably put a 20k down payment if that was an option.
- MemberNovember 24, 2022 at 12:22 am
So that 5% Discount off of an Aptera EV is kind of like a Reverse Interest Rate of 5% on a loan? I wonder how many people here would go along with a New Reservation System that is no longer First Come-First Served but based instead on who can put down the biggest down payment gets to the front of the line and the person who is only able to afford the bare minimum amount goes straight to the back of the line? I do want to say that there was a guy called Tucker who started Tucker Cars. He basically used his future customers down payments to help pay his car company’s operating costs. Let’s just say he got in a lot of trouble with the US Government and lost everything. All these future down payments could not be used to help fund Aptera’s Business Operations except to be used as payment at the point of sale. All these future down payments will have to go to escrow bank account for safekeeping. But it would help increase confidence in Aptera Motors Corp. by a lot for Chris and Steve to be able to show possible investors and creditors a $1 Billion Dollars USD let’s say in an Escrow Bank Account. At that point in time, it would almost guarantee business success. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan Tucker 48: The Car That Was Too Good For Detroit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrR-EjOLUrY
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 7:22 am
My thoughts are the more complex the idea, the harder it will be to implement and the harder it will be for the customer/client to understand and accept. There are many creative ways to approach this money raising issue. Also the more funds that are created the better off APTERA will be so it has breathing room and a reserve that will give them flexibility.
To truly raise capital internally through reservation holders and I’m going to get some hate for this. Allow those who have the funds and capability to offer 10k per a reservation holder to specifically towards production, this amount would go towards crediting the final purchase. The caveat would be that those who have made this unsecured investment would adjust their place in line. Most of the followers on this sight are of retirement age or are highly educated with reserve assets.
$10,000 x 5,000 res holders = $50,000,000
We can let APTERA play with the numbers through directed surveys. If 3 times as many people can offer $5k…..then by all means take that path.
It may seem unfair or too cutthroat, but at the end it would guarantee if the vehicle is produced that all would benefit. My 1st res number is 6949…I’m sure yes I would benefit somewhat….but the goal here is for everyone to benefit, APTERA, reservation holders and investors.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:10 am
With your idea John, could anyone put down as much or as little cash in deposit (Min. Amount of $100 USD) as an unsecured loan to go towards their Future Aptera EV Purchase as they want/able to? Would the customers who are able/willing to spend more cash sooner be able to get bump up in line? What about all the people who have got their spot in the line a few years ago? Do they get bump to the back of the line so to speak? How do we help prevent those people from feeling that we took advantage of them and thus we ripped them off unfairly? Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:31 am
If you keep the amount as a standard of what ever the number is decided by APTERA there wouldn’t be any bouncing around. You set a deadline date, you would need to offer the funds by said date. Reservation orders would reset and let the chips fall where they may. Feelings?…..I would feel real bad if the vehicle never gets produced!
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:51 am
I like John’s idea so I’m going to attempt to find a reasonable answer to your noted intricacies.
I believe John’s suggestion was that everyone would pay the exact same amount and only those who paid bump up in the line keeping the original order of first come first served. This is great because it keeps things as simple as possible.
But your variable cash deposit suggestion makes a lot more sense because not everyone can afford the same amount and finding the exact deposit value with maximum participants through surveys like John said is a very difficult task in my opinion. If the deposit was variable like you’re suggesting, a way to keep things simple is to allow those who pay the highest amount to get bumped up the highest in line. So theoretically if you put in the full amount for the car and your car has 1k range with all additional optional features you will be guaranteed first in line. And if 2+ people pay the same amount, it’s a first come first served basis.
And yes in both cases, people who are currently first in line will get bumped back. Like John said it might be too unfair/cutthroat, but urgency of fund raising could justify this. I don’t think in this case they were taken advantage of because their 100$ deposit for reservations was never used by Aptera. They did use the reservation numbers for marketing though. The main problem is that the early reservation holders losing their spot in the line means that the reservation they paid for has lost all meaning so technically they would be kind of betrayed if Aptera goes for this. I personally would understand considering Aptera’s current Capital raising difficulties but there’s no telling how they everyone would react.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 9:06 am
I don’t feel anyone should feel bad for early reservation holders loosing their place in line. Should I feel bad if and when APTERA sells their first vehicles locally even though they may not be early reservationists? The whole point is to get this vehicle made and into drivers hands….then investors will come.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 10:36 am
Good Job Oussama R! You have taken the words right out of my mouth. You have said everything that I was thinking about. It is exactly what I was thinking. I just wish we were all having this conversation back in 2019 right before the Aptera Reservation List was established. I believe your idea is the way to go (along with Qiang Fu Bond Idea) if there were no previous reservation holders we had to worry about. We are kind of stuck right now due to having prior obligations on the books so to speak. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:14 am
Interesting Idea Mickey. Here are my two cents for what it is worth. First off, are those shares of stock used as a down payment to help purchase the Aptera EV? If so, would those shares of stock become null and void in exchange for our Customers Aptera EV purchase? Stock prices go up and down all the time. So we are adding a lot of financial risk to purchasing an Aptera EV for our customers here. Secondly, SEC Accounting Laws are pretty strict when it comes to using other people’s money to help run your business. In the event of a bankruptcy (which I think the odds are pretty low here), the customers would lose as much as the investors would in the event of liquidation of the business operations with your plan of action. In following of SEC Law, any and all Aptera EV Down Payments would have to be deposit directly into a Escrow Bank Account. All monies (funds) would have to be kept by the bank in the Aptera Motors Corp. Escrow Bank Account for safe keeping. Aptera Motors Corp. would not be allow to use a single cent of our Customers Aptera EV Down Payments until the customer is ready to purchase his/her Aptera EV. In case of the unlikely event of bankruptcy, the bank just liquidates the Aptera Motors Corp. Escrow Bank Account and writes bank checks to everyone affected. I know you want to ask me a question right now. “What’s the point of our customers paying their Aptera EV Down Payments now if it all goes into an bank escrow account and Aptera Motors Corp. cannot use a single cent until the customer is ready to buy in full and take delivery of his/her Aptera EV?” – you asked. Great Question! It would sure help Chris and Steve get more investors and bankers interested in Aptera Motors Corp. for them to be able to say that X Amount of Dollars has been raised by Customer Deposits alone which have been safely deposited in an Escort Bank Account for the time being. It would help to show that a lot of people are pretty serious about owning an Aptera EV. Most people can put down a $100 Deposit easily to get their place in line and cancel at the last moment if they so choose. When you have thousands of customers put down thousands of dollars apiece, that starts to add up to some real money (and interest in the product) there. Thoughts? Thanks for your time. Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:34 am
Instead of stock, Aptera can issue bonds to the reservation holders. The interest payments will accumulate but not payable until the vehicle is delivered. The interest payments can only be used for payment toward to vehicle so that it does not add to the company’s cash burden. Should the reservation holders decide not to purchase the vehicle, the principal and interest will be converted to transferable vouchers toward future Aptera purchase.
Should Aptera go directly to the capital market, their bond will be rated as non-investment grade. So I would expect reasonably high interest rate.
I think giving the investors the interest is a more fair way of letting them jumping-the-line.
- This reply was modified 6 days, 4 hours ago by Qiang Fu.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 10:24 am
Good Job Qiang Fu! You have taken the words right out of my mouth. You have said everything that I was thinking about. No one wants to loan money in the form of an unsecured loan. But giving corp. bonds to our customers base would help to move things along.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 10:01 am
Hey thanks to everyone who has replied on this so far. Just to let you know I fall under the retired group and on a limited income now, so coming up with $5000.00 to $10,000.00 in cash is out of the question, but paying monthly is a different story. This is why I suggested to make this a across the board option so we can all help the company. I am also not a finance expert with knowledge on all the laws on something like this, but we all want to help move things along and maybe new or even old ideas can be suggested to help. As for moving up the list nobody really wants to be viewed as selfish or greedy, but we all want our Aptera’s as soon as possible. Nathan mentioned an escrow account…each of us already has this set up for our deposit, or maybe its a group account, but changing it to individual accounts so we could start making payments may be something to look at. I am sure that if a bank had $1,102,600.00 (the amount I refer to in my original post) just sitting in an escrow account waiting to pay for our vehicles investors will take note, but I want to help with cash flow to Aptera the Company sooner than later so they can start production ASAP. And there has to be away…so I think positive and I hope Chris and Steve and other top individuals in Aptera the Company are checking this out and considering all options….which I feel confidant they are.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 10:29 am
One possible solution here is to simply invest your deposit money by buying Aptera Motors Corp. Equity. When it comes time to purchase your Aptera EV, you simply sell your Aptera Motors Corp. Shares of Stock and purchase your vehicle with the remaining balance (using cash) in full. The main downside would be having a falling stock price cause by everyone and anyone selling all of their stock positions in Aptera Motors Corp. in order to purchase their Aptera EV. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan https://invest.aptera.us/https://invest.aptera.us/
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 10:32 am
I am open to any or all ideas to get the ball rolling. My suggestions were based on my capabilities, I am not trying to offend or to undercut others. My thoughts have less to do with feelings and more to do with reality. As I stated earlier, I knew I was going to get some flack, that’s ok, I’m fairly thick skinned and am willing to throw out an idea that interested parties can weigh.
Bonds? Will they be secured…if not, how different from buying shares at the moment, other than the fact of interest bearing?
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 10:40 am
Maybe we could use Convertible Bonds instead of Regular Corp. Bonds? Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 11:51 am
Someone with a handy LLC goes to some wefunder site and sets up a company that seeks to raise $50 million. You fund it and it does nothing to dilute the Aptera stock.
As things are in motion, this money is loaned to Aptera
This entity also provides financing for Aptera that includes an Aptera membership that includes a co-insurance product for collision/comprehensive insurance that will help underwrite the costs of insurance. This is also tied to a warranty service company and a car loan outfit. Think of a combination of GMAC financing, On-Star, and your dealer who ships out warranty parts, etc.
The trick is that setting this up to keep a finger on each of the Apterea with the intent to maximize their presence on the road.
The new task, which doesn’t really start until sometime after production begins, is handled under contract to Aptera motors to rationalize and maximize the reuse and repair of the generational vehicle being produced. This would involve a cradle to grave care plan for the vehicle with collection of wrecked vehicles for recycling and reuse of parts being the key.
The leap would be in understanding the basics of this ancillary business are based on financial, insurance and other service offerings including parts inventory and recycling … all of which are far removed from manufacturing. This ‘side’ of the business would be much enhanced in its performance if it were considered a separate profit center from manufacturing and production.
If this type of entity were to emerge, it would need to begin happening now. As financial aspects are one of several critical aspects, it may be possible to partner with a financial firm for launch. But other than raising capital (which presumably could be loaned to Aptera in exchange for the ‘contract’ allowing this entity to offer financing, insurance and ultimately warranty repair and recycling to Aptera customers, there is only planning to do until the Aptera launches.
At that point the loans to Aptera are repaid which funds more sales (when this financial institution starts printing money like they all do) through vehicle financing which funds the expansion of the service company’s offering.
If you had the right financial partner – I’m betting that free and clear deposits to that institution would also help bolster their confidence.
So while some of us oldsters may be reluctant to take the full risk of additional investment in Aptera stock, I’m sure that as a gesture of solidarity, some of us could move some significant savings around provided they were getting market rate interest.
Notably, Aptera Motors would have a stake in the new company but that stake on the financial side would be separate from the vehicle assembly.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:30 pm
So you are talking about the Aptera Motors Credit Union? Everything is on the back burner right now. Design, production and sale of the Aptera EV is the only concern right now. We got to start selling Aptera EVs ASAP. But Aptera Motors Corp. does not want many cooks in the kitchen as they say. Aptera Motors Corp. wants and needs to get rid of as many middlemen as soon as possible and try to bring everything and anything in house in order to help lower cost, increase sales due to the lower price tag and have further growth worldwide with that increase in revenue. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 11:17 am
I like bond more than stock because:
1. There’s a certainty on the amount investor will get when the vehicle is delivered (if the company survives to that point).
2. Investors can invest as much or as little, and as frequent as they see fit.
3. Investors/reservation holders are compensated for their patience while waiting for their Aptera. If interest payment is high enough, waiting may become bearable experience.
4. Yes, Aptera will have a lower profit margin for some vehicles, but it is probably a cheaper form of funding than equity in this environment. In addition, these reservations are further “locked in”.
5. A minor point and hope never happen: bond has higher priority claim than stock on company’s residual value in the case of liquidation.
- This reply was modified 6 days, 2 hours ago by Qiang Fu.
- ModeratorNovember 23, 2022 at 12:47 pm
Lots of good ideas here. Makes me wonder if the “powers that be” have strongly considered any variation of the ideas presented in this thread.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:57 pm
History always seems to repeat itself. Let’s all learn from our mistakes here. Here are where my concerns are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_48#SEC_investigation_and_demise Basically, customers deposits and equity investments in Aptera Motors Corp. have to always be kept at arms length distance from each other. Aptera Motors Corp. is in no position to try to fight the US SEC over a simple misunderstanding trying to raise funds. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 1:12 pm
I think the simplest solution is just for all of us to buy as much stock as we can.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:53 pm
Exactly! The simplest way is usually the best way. Aptera Motors Corp. just needs to get the capital to make it work. All of this great ideas would sadly just get in the way. We just need them to stay focus on designing, building and selling the Aptera EV to our customers. Everything else can come later. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 2:53 pm
1) quit over engineering the damn thing.
2) sometimes close enough for government work is good enough.
3) to strive for absolute perfection is nonsense.
4) nothing is ever “perfect”
A lot of very good cars were hand built 1 at a time and stood the rest of time and are worth a fortune today.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 6:44 pm
“Perfection is the enemy of profitability.” – Mark Cuban
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 6:53 pm
There is a plan; let them work the plan.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:49 pm
“A lot of very good cars were hand built 1 at a time and stood the rest of time and are worth a fortune today.” – you said. Are you willing to pay Ferrari Prices to buy a Toyota Sedan Car? The Aptera EV that I sat in cost about $1 Million Dollars a piece. It is so costly due to all the parts and the vehicle having to be build completely from scratch by using high skilled labor. The only way that I see Aptera Motors Corp. makes it is they have to have a factory to build affordable vehicles. If worse came to worse, maybe they could sign a deal with that iPhone Manufacturer to do the Aptera EV Final Assembly? At this time thou, it would be much less money to just build the final assembly factory in California. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- This reply was modified 5 days, 17 hours ago by Nathan Bendall.
- ModeratorNovember 23, 2022 at 4:04 pm
Another idea, if Aptera were upfront and disclosed what actual funds were needed and details on the equipment, such as the red viking carts. We could form LLC for purpose of raising funds to purchase equipment and lease it to Aptera with with a short term buyout option. LLC investors would earn from lease payments and investment would be secured with equipment.
I think there are many ways we could help Aptera raise the funds needed, but they would have to be willing to provide more specific details. Maybe they should have a conference with the existing investors, have them sign NDA. I would be able to invest more but not without more specific details.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 5:01 pm
Norman Roberts, I think you hit the nail in the head. APTERA has not been forthright as to what their actual financial needs are and how far they are from reaching them. It makes myself and others who are willing to add to our investments hold back from doing so.
An LLC for their equipment needed to create full manufacturing is a great idea. I would have greater faith in investing knowing that I have the equipment and the assets that are secured.
- MemberNovember 23, 2022 at 8:38 pm
Let’s say I am one of Aptera Motors Corp. competitors. I want to know what my competition is doing. I want to know the secret sauce recipe so to speak. So what you are saying is all I have to do is sign an NDA and invest some money by buying some Aptera Motors Corp. Equity. Then Aptera Motors Corp. tells me their secret game plan? I can use that info to plan better how to beat Aptera Motors Corp. at their own game. An NDA should not be relied on sole to help protect a company’s trade secrets. There has to be many I.P. Protections in place. Thoughts? Thanks, Nathan
- MemberNovember 24, 2022 at 7:26 am
Good outside the box thinking here Norman.
- MemberNovember 24, 2022 at 9:45 am
We don’t expect them to keep changing things at the last minute. They keep changing things at the last minute. It’s called too many engineers playing the “mine is bigger than yours” game. I’ve seen it time and time again where I work. The person with the most letters after their name always trumps the others right wrong or indifferent, time wasting or not.
- MemberNovember 24, 2022 at 11:12 am
It is the goal of perfection that is the problem. They seem to be operating on the premise of not shipping until everything down to the last screw is absolutely perfect.
- MemberNovember 28, 2022 at 12:35 pm
Aptera, start building the Apteras now. The first ones don’t have to be perfect. You can exchange the first Apteras sold to customers with the more perfected designed ones later. Customers want to buy them now. Hand build them, whatever to get them to your customers. Aptera won’t have to put a penny into marketing. Once Aptera starts getting them on the street, the billionaires will see them and the country will go wild. Will be so much free advertising. Even if and when you have recalls, the news will be everywhere. It woll get everyone talking about the Aptera and people will reserve them like crazy. Aptera is putting too much money into building each one, that will defeat the whole purpose of saving money on gas. It’s almost as if someone in the company is dragging out the production and pumping up the entire cost of production to Aptera’s breaking point on purpose. Maybe it’s Sandy Munro. $500 million was way more than enough to produce 1,000s of Apteras already.
Pay for anything else you need for production with money coming in from the sales of the Apteras. You all are thinking Tesla instead of Henry Ford.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Voltaire
- MemberNovember 28, 2022 at 1:46 pm
Not sure where you got the $500 million figure. Aptera never had that kind of funding. They have accomplished development to the current delta on less than 100M todate. Unheard of efficiency in the vehicle industry.
- ModeratorNovember 28, 2022 at 1:49 pm
Hi, John. I see you have put the same post into three different threads. I gather you want to make sure your post is seen;)
I agree with you in part. I too would love to see Apterae on the road ASAP. However, I trust there are very cogent engineering, production, and business reasons for lining up what is needed for volume production before any vehicles leave the factory. The buying public and the press can be very unforgiving should initial Apterae fall short on quality and performance. Much as it challenges my patience, in the end, I would rather have my own Aptera right than have it early.
- MemberNovember 28, 2022 at 1:49 pm
Just release the first ones for 100k, give each car a number. Use they money for small optimizations and to build trust. After a few months, reduce to 75k, than 50k.
They are some wealthy people out there who really WANT this thing (and to be fair, it WILL be a fairly exclusive car for many months)
Use the time to get more media buzz and attract more investors. Gradually scale up production.
If you got an investor, ramp up like crazy. Until then, build cars, sell them without loss.