Aptera exterior finish info

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

I pre ordered stealthy Noir. Coordinates well to the standard glossy black roof and bluish solar tiles. I plan to add mirror rose gold tints on the fixed top glass door windows, to match with the copper solar tile bus bars. It will function as side window sun shades.

Then I’ll slap two small Skunk Works stickers on each side of the rear wheel pant. 😂

[Pistonboy]

Why was gamma painted? It gives the impression that wrap is ugly and they don’t want people to see it. Perhaps this is the last widely publicized showing and they don’t want people to see what a wrap looks like. (Surely not.) Yes, delta is coming but it may not get the same publicity. There are plenty of high quality wrappers in southern California who could do it.

Many people recognized it was painted before the Fully Charged event, just from the pictures. I am impressed so many people can distinguish between wrap and paint by a picture on the internet.

[georg-matt]

The answer I received from an ambassador on Friday was because it would hold up better over the next months when Gamma is shipped around the country for show-and-tell.

[eric-quinn]

I’m not a chemical expert or anything close.

If the body is made of composite materials, can’t they just dye the materials in the blending process?

My two cents. I order Noir, if I had to take it in hot neon pink, I still take it.

[Greek]

Is been brought up before.. the original smart cars were color infused. There response… Because they will be using different materials for different parts of the vehicle it was close to impossible to color match…plus color infusion is fairly expensive. Mercedes Smart cars stopped the process 17 years ago.

[curtis-cibinel]

Between fully charged and the ambassador tour it is quite clear Aptera will be factory wrapped; this is really the only option given the establishing of paint shops is expensive, environmentally damaging and doesn’t mesh with the microfactories concept. One thing at fully charged that stuck out to me was that Chris called it “film”; this terminology doesn’t seem common with vinyl wrap. This could mean Aptera will have a far more durable type of wrap called cosmetic paint protection “film” (yes its not actually protecting paint but it’s just the name). Cosmetic PPF is 2-4 times the thickness (50-100 microns vs 200) and has warranties up to 10 years for cosmetics (yellowing/bubbling).

I found one reference which said this material and slightly more difficult process increases the cost of oneoff wrapping a sedan from $3600 to $5000 with the majority being the more expensive material. Prices are not readily available for the material alone. Since Aptera is smaller, the top isn’t wrapped, and it will be produced at scale the cost difference at manufacturing could be as little as $500 (speculation) with a finish lasting far longer (especially given the idea is to leave it parked in the sun). I am by no means an expert but a longer lasting wrap could mitigate many of the longevity concerns.

Note: Normal paint protection film (Ppf) is simply a clear layer; not the same thing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EAS7bC2D5PI

Cosmetics Paint Protection Film (PPF)

https://ftadetailing.com/blog/xpel-vs-suntek-vs-stek-vs-flexishield-paint-protection-film/

• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Curtis Cibinel. Reason: Fixed typos
• This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[Scott]

Curtis, thanks for finding that info about PPF. Sounds hopefully better than the long discussed vinyl wraps, though still presumably not as durable or long lasting as paint. Just wanted to ensure you are considering other aspects to what you mentioned in your intro about purported downsides of paint:

“establishing of paint shops is expensive”: Yes. So, Aptera could outsource painting to a pre-existing paint shop with no capital outlay needed from Aptera.

“environmentally damaging”: These statements from elsewhere are unsubstantiated greenwashing to make vinyl wraps (if that is what will be used) appear better in comparison. Modern water-based vehicle paints have FAR lower environmental concerns than the vehicle paints of yesteryear. Also, vinyl is an extremely toxic material, both in terms of its manufacture and its later non-recycled disposal. And its environmental effects are cumulative, requiring multiple throwaway layers and associated infrastructure over the same time as one layer of normal paint. Just Google about the environmental effects of vinyl and read away.

“doesn’t mesh with the microfactories concept”: Actually, having pre-painted body panels delivered without needing wraps to be manually installed onsite would mesh just fine with a micro-factories concept.

[greg-mirich]

For those of you that are worried about caring for a wrap finish and washing there are two avenues to go. Number one, Waterless wash and a special waffle microfiber towel designed for waterless wash. Number two, for heavy dirt and road grime use a foam gun with a neutral PH car wash solution {soap} and a soft microfiber wash mitt, rinse with garden hose and use a soft microfiber drying towel or a leaf blower to remove the excess water. You can go to ADAM’s Polishes.com and click on the video link and there you will find a video on car washing the proper way. Hope this will help with your concerns for taking care of your APTERA. I am on the team that does the official detailing for Barrett Jackson auctions and have been detailing for over twenty years. Car care products have changed tremendously in the last few years and are now more user friendly with better lasting results. As a note: when I was younger I used to wax my relatives cars with Blue Coral wax and it was very labor intensive and exhausting. Today with the new products you can get better results with a lot less labor and your efforts last longer. Check out all the videos on the web site, there is a wealth of knowledge and tips that will make your car care activity easier with better lasting results.

[greg-mirich]

Randy J, if you go to Adam’s Polishes.com and click on the Video link you will find about 20 different Youtube videos covering all aspects of detailing with a lot of cool tips. When we are at Barrett Jackson auctions we do not have access to water so all of the cars that we wipe down and detail have to be done with waterless wash. A lot of these cars come in to the auction on open carriers and are filthy. Waterless wash and the waterless wash towels clean all these cars without scratching the surface. Wraps can be treated like soft clear coat paint, if they become scratched and are not self healing they can be polishes with a mild compound using a DA {random orbital} or dual action polisher without hurting the wrap. Once polished, the best protection is to apply a ceramic coating. Adam’s Polishes has several DIY ceramic coatings that will last from 6 months to a year or more. Worth checking out this web site. Hope this helps you. Feel free to ask me any other questions about detailing as I have been detailing for over 20 years.

[colen-thomas]

Obviously this cannot be run through a car wash. Anyone have any suggestions regarding exterior cleaning? Underneath in particular. How much will drag coefficient be affected by accumulation of dirt?

[jeffrey-parker]

Why are you under the impression this cannot go through a car wash (delicate)? The wheel pull mechanism (remove the wheel shrouds)? There are touchless carwashes if the outboard wheels are your concern. There are carwashes that offer undercarriage washes as well. There are also self-serve pay-as-you-go car wash places. As for any other commonly used washing techniques would suffice, rag, brush on a stick, power washer; go ham and wipe away the dirt to your heart’s content.

As far as how dirt would affect the aero. That would be up for experiments, aerodynamics is a bit of an unruly monster with many variables. Especially with surface roughness (dirt, erosion) or Reynolds Number in the calculations.

In my quick read and layman understanding, there are studies of surface roughness of turbine blades for aircraft and wind turbines for electricity generation, and the results after several thousand in service hours when roughness increases the efficiency of the blades drops ~10%. I read this as in terms of lift for airfoils pressure loss. I don’t think this loss in efficiency is relevant to the drag efficiency of the Aptera.

With the rougher surface the laminar flow boundary layer will contract towards the body surface increasing the turbulent flow. Thus, increasing drag. But how much drag is increased and how much that would affect range. My guess, it would be negligible at the speeds traveled on public roads. Now if you were going 100+ MPH then yeah more drag with increased surface roughness would probably be exponentially more relevant (probably like 5%).

[Riley]

I don’t think any reasonable buildup of dirt will have a an effect on drag. Only if large chunks of mud get globbed onto the body than maybe.

Definitely clean the solar panels on a regular basis. wipe down the vinyl wrapped part with UV protectant. for the underbody use something with a long handle to reach under the car. With such a unique vehicle it will be a learning experience for everyone.

[birdman]

I asked asked Chris about car washes. He said this would go through something like Soapy Joe’s

[jesthorbjorn]

And another data point. In this most recent interview (post gamma, at least) at about 10:25 Chris again says, “vinyl wrap”.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  Joel Smith.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  Joel Smith.

[jonah-jorgenson]

Nothing like muddying the waters. Contradicts his Fully Charged statement of “Film” maybe in his mind they are the same thing. I will just wait until there is some official announcement. So much for the credibility of the “Openness” of Aptera.

[john-trotter]

The discussion of colored film, whether it is (sturdy) “cosmetic PPF” or (thinner) vinyl, is interesting. YouTube is, of course, littered with explanations of what these are so we can all become, yet again, uncertified experts. One aspect that I find interesting is the question of “jambs”, or the surfaces on doors and hatches between the exterior and the interior. For an unpainted body, it seems to me the colored film needs to cover these hard-to-cover areas, not just the exterior. I gather that is relatively harder with PPF than vinyl, but in any event it needs to be done during the process of assembly, not just at the end. (For after market, customers asking for “jambs” to match the exterior cause the cost to soar as the car needs to be partially disassembled before wrapping.) Kim Java, in the Tesla world, has a YouTube about getting her Model X vinyl wrapped and PPF wrapped over that. $10K, if she’d have had to pay for it, and they did not “do jambs”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xl4IL1juQg

This is a surprisingly thorny technical/cost problem and I wish the Aptera team good luck at getting a reasonable solution.

[kevin-bradbury]

I wonder to do something similar on an Aptera, where would you stop for the sides and belly of the vehicle? There are no defined cut-off edges like on a conventional vehicle. Would the PPF effect the skin cooling on the vehicle belly? Would PPF and/or ceramic coating effect the solar cells efficiency. So many questions…🤔

[david-mcnamara]

Hello, the body of Aptera is not painted. Will there be any considerations for washing and maintaining the exterior or interior? I’m thinking of public car wash systems or anywhere a pressure and detergent is available for use (i.e. automatic drive through and coin operated)? Has testing been done which proves wearability of this concept? Cold weather countries especially are of a concern to me.

[Greek]

Since we don’t know exactly which wrap (being a general term) APTERA will use. Most recommend warm water with light soap, must make sure soap residue is completely rinsed off. I would wait to see what product APTERA will use and then follow manufacturer’s recommendation.

[curtis-cibinel]

Raj did a very good video with a wrap shop discussing the products and Aptera.

[John_Noir]

I ordered a Noir. I’m wondering if requesting not to have the wrap would save me money. I bet the the carbon would look cool without the wrap. I would really like to see an Aptera without the wrap. I could add wrap later.

• This reply was modified 1 day, 17 hours ago by  John_Noir.
• This reply was modified 1 day, 17 hours ago by  John_Noir.
• This reply was modified 1 day, 8 hours ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[bruce-mengler]

I very well could be mistaken, but I believe that UV measurably degrades Carbon Fiber Compound. The wrap is deigned to retard the harmful effects of UV on CFC. The 2 rear pieces that comprise the outer skin I believe will similar to fiberglass which also is degraded by UV light. I do believe it would be unwise to leave your Aptera out in the sun without some sort of “sunscreen” applied to the exposed non-PV cell surfaces.

[Riley]

Adding an unwrapped option would add complexity to the production process and increase the cost. An unwrapped aptera Looks like this, the white panels are not carbon but fiberglass the carbon panels are all hidden, also you shouldn’t leave the car unwrapped as the sun will quickly degrade the fiberglass.

320994712_858803512004431_4433226909043837069_n.jpg 88 KB Image File - Click to view

• Copy Download Link

[llewellyn-evans]

You could add a clear wrap that blocks UV. Same idea as clear window film.

[Mike-Mars]

I would recommend “clear PPF” which has the advantage of being more durable than wrap, and is designed for UV protection.

[curtis-cibinel]

Cosmetic PPF would be the best option as it provides the color and is far more resilient than vinyl wraps. Material and labor cost at a manufacturing scale is probably under $300 (Aptera doesn’t have much wrapped surface vs most cars). Steve at AOC speculated that the term vinyl may be getting used generically (ie like jacuzzi) and Cosmetic PPF could still be on the table but this is obviously very optimistic. I would definitely be willing to pay a bit extra for a cosmetic PPF finish which will realistically last as well as paint. Hopefully by the time my reservation (~13000th) comes around they will have this option (or simply switch since most people want the finish to last)

[Mike-Mars]

Yeah, but OP wants to see the raw panels, hence clear not cosmetic.

• This reply was modified 10 hours, 57 minutes ago by  Michael Marsden.

[kerbe2705]

@John_Noir The carbon fiber SMC parts are all internal: The exterior of the body is made from fiberglass SMC, ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) plastic, aluminum and EVA (Ethylene-Vinyl Acetate) foam. At present the only “nude” carbon fiber SMC in the design is the underside of the rear hatch and, possibly, the walls of the cargo bay.

[curtis-cibinel]

100% (ps: the emoji set on the forum is weird. No bullseye or hand gestures)

[ROMAD]

Are you looking for something like these? I just scrolled down; I didn’t see a bullseye one though.

👍