- MemberDecember 5, 2021 at 10:05 am
How realistic do you think the final price tag of $25,900-$31,000 will be?
With supply issues, unforeseen snags, and the big elephant in the room: inflation, I think the entry price will be closer to $28k-$30k by the time customers start taking deliveries.
Simply look at Tesla and their bi-monthly price increases.
- ModeratorDecember 5, 2021 at 11:11 am
That is why I reserved at the price point that came up when I built my reservation pre order
What car doesn’t go up “after launch”.
My wife test drove a Ford Mustang Mach – e, the first one to hit in our area several months ago…and “that “dealership” was adding $5k to the sticker price”
Even my last new Honda Civic Si had “dealerships” applying ( not manufacturer applied) $5-&7k over sticker charges…. I just moved on to a dealership that accepted the sticker price! and other brands in mind, if that was a game “dealerships” were playing
As you know Aptera has no dealerships.
I don’t see the manufacturer Aptera Motors Corporation paying games IMHO. They have a business to start up and standby.
- MemberDecember 5, 2021 at 11:35 am
The offer is clear. The reservation has been done. The price is what I agreed upon!
- MemberDecember 6, 2021 at 11:57 am
I’m sure you’ll be allowed to cancel your order if you’re not willing to pay for it.
- MemberDecember 6, 2021 at 11:58 am
If you have a reservation, log into Aptera, click on “My account” then click on “Your dashboard” You will see a message that says “View or edit your preorder” The reservation is not an order. it may reserve your price, but nothing I have read says that.
When your reservation comes up, that is when you place your order for the version you want with changes if you want to make them. Your deposit will be credited to the sales price at that time as well as any investment credit or referral credit you are due.
The price may be higher at that time. The longer we wait for production to start the greater the probability of the price going up either through ordinary inflation or driven by increased logistics costs for parts.
The price we “Reserved” was a price set nearly a year ago and not accounting for all of the turmoil associated with COVID.
I believe the 10% mentioned in some of the posts on this thread are quite possible. Remember, Aptera is a company that needs to make profit from operations as a start up with little or no capital to hold the price with discounts.
At any reasonable price this is a great car. For those of us in the US, there is the possibility of a federal incentive to help cushion any price increase. For those outside of the US, I assume it would depend on your local incentives if any to help with price.
- MemberDecember 6, 2021 at 5:17 am
My configuration is $40k.
I honestly DO NOT expect that this price is set in stone. I do expect it to be close within a margin of 10% however, because if not, something isn’t jiving with their fundamentals.
- MemberDecember 6, 2021 at 7:33 am
I’ll be happy if it’s within 10% of target!
- MemberDecember 6, 2021 at 11:55 am
When Aptera set the pre order prices the economy was stable but there was no guarantee of an incentive for three wheel vehicles. We know that all costs are going up but there should be a tax credit available. So final cost should still be around what we were originally quoted. If not all of our preorders are changeable or can be canceled with a full refund.
Aptera has a history of keeping its promises.
- MemberDecember 6, 2021 at 12:34 pm
The price of a Model Y has gone up 20% in the last year, that’s for a car that was already in production. Tesla knows exactly what goes into a Model Y and they control more of their supply chain that anyone let alone a startup like Aptera but market and supply chain conditions have changed a lot in the last year and their prices reflect that.
The prices on Aptera’s website reflect a bunch of wild ass guesses as to what their costs would be. A year ago they didn’t have a VP of manufacturing, didn’t know who their battery supplier would be, didn’t know the final form of the vehicle which is just going into beta now and they most certainly didn’t know about how tight the supply chain would be. The legacy companies have empty dealer lots because they couldn’t predict the shortages in the supply chain, these are companies that have been building cars for a century, companies that track every nut and bolt, companies that know as much as there is to know about what it takes to build a car.
Things could change a lot in the next year also. The chip shortage will probably ease but the battery shortage is going to persist for years.
No one knows what the final prices will be.
- MemberOctober 7, 2022 at 6:49 pm
While inflation is a reality and materials are more expensive, I think Tesla price increases are more due to customer demand and limited supply. They currently have the highest margins of any auto maker and plenty of room to lower prices if/when they get real competition.
- MemberDecember 8, 2021 at 4:21 am
I am appealing to any who have bought a Vehicle New, in a State Not Their Own: How are Purchase Taxes Handled? Pay Ca Taxes, then Transport to Home State…annnd?
- ModeratorDecember 8, 2021 at 5:20 am
Then you title/register and pay taxes in your home state. There should be no CA taxes if you register elsewhere.
- MemberDecember 8, 2021 at 8:22 am
I’m not expecting the price to be fixed between now and launch. Aptera has sold us on an idea so far. This is true for the investors as well. This proposition has be serve both purposes. The more of us they get to sign on, the more valuable the company is from an investment standpoint. A lot of things can happen between now and launch. Supply chain, test learning and design modifications, dropping features they can’t get past the regulations (e.g. mirrors?). Don’t be surprised if the first cars are not only more expensive, but don’t fulfill the complete efficiency promise. Their 100 Whr/mile that they use to estimate range cannot be linear for the different battery sizes as the car gets heavier. Obviously, as launch gets closer, they will need to sense how many of these orders are real and the risk of cancellations should the proposition or pricing change in a significant way. It is not in their interest to play games, so I don’t think they will, but they will need to deal with reality as the final car design and cost becomes clearer.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 5:39 am
I am a bit worried about the price of Aptera, everything’s cheap. I think Aptera calculated things a bit too optimistically.
Perhaps it is a idea to increase prices by a amount to calculate in inflation and expensive parts?
This could work out well, instead of asking everyone who pre-ordered to pay more, which would damage the company, disappoint customers etc.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 6:50 am
I think the main reason it is cheaper is that it is not a car and there is a minimalistic aspect to the design. Said another way, you aren’t getting much in terms of an overall vehicle which I thinks fits well with the whole concept.
Inevitably, the cost will go up. We’ve gotten 2020 pricing here and there are a lot of unknowns. (Inflation, design changes, maybe new features, etc.) I would not assume they have low balled it unless the costs come back with huge markups (like Rivian did). I’m sure these guys know that there would be a falling out if the price got jacked up into a new stratosphere. They can’t afford that with all the other options for EVs out there. I can get a 4 seat EV with a 60+kwh battery for $40k vs. the $35k in my reservation. Of course, I can go further on it, but I’m not paying a premium (I’m paying in sacrifice for a 2 seater). The affordability with its simplistic design opens entry into the market that is a competitive advantage.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 8:44 am
While that may be true, they are adding a second screen now, still need to pump the car full with tech gadgets and make sure that all works well, in order to get autopilot working good.
You can come back with a argument that the second screen isn’t expensive etc….But everything together, plus then making hardware and software work all good together. It isn’t a easy task, neither a cheap one.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 6:56 am
One way they might be able to handle the cost increases is by reducing the ranges of each tier. Suppose the 1000 mile version was 750 instead and the 600 mile is 450, the 400 mile version was 300 and the 250 was 200. I’ve ordered the 600 mile variant, if it was dropped to 450 then I’d probably opt to upgrade to the 750. That would be a price increase for me but with an extra benefit. If price was my driving factor then I’d stay with the 450 and justify it to myself by saying that 450 was still better than a Tesla Model S LR.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 8:45 am
That could be a option to do yes. The cells that degrade over time are replaced by other cells to keep the range true, but this takes quite some years, so users could opt to have the full range.
But I, and others, would be very unhappy if this would arrive on our pre-orders.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 9:07 am
The marque (and rather silly) 1000 mile range is a huge marketing feature. It really surprised me when they said the 1000 mile was the last battery line to ramp since even a small number of these (ie paradigm+ preorders only) in the wild would be huge in generating buzz. While personally I am fine with less range (especially if LFP based so you can more aggressively use the full battery) but I think this removes part of the vehicles identity.
If people keep pushing for paint I could definitely see that being an option or a justifiable price hike. Removal of options (making them mandatory and baked into an increased base price) for things like the solar hood and maybe safetypilot would reduce variation and cost to manufacture.
- MemberMarch 7, 2022 at 10:24 am
Unless they were incredibly conservative when they did their pricing they will have to do some price adjustment. Aside from reducing battery sizes I don’t see what options they would have to mitigate the cost increases that the industry has seen in the last year, the car is very basic so there isn’t anything that could be de-contented. Aptera can’t sell cars at a loss, they don’t have any buffer in the bank to allow that. The best that they will be able to do is be transparent about their costs, try to keep price rises to a minimum for existing reservation holders and cut into the profit that they will generate per car but not so much as to create a loss.
Rivian massively mishandled the situation by dumping huge price increases on their reservation holders with no warning and no explanation. Rivian had a giant IPO which raised billions of dollars, this has given them a buffer to allow them to walk back the price increase for existing reservation holders but it’s going to cost them $900B. It also might have put them in serious legal jeopardy, there is a lawsuit from a fired executive which claims that they knew that the price increase was going to happen before the IPO and that they withheld the information until the IPO was done.
Tesla raised prices by about $10K last year but they used the boiled frog approach, i.e. they raised the prices by $1K a pop once or twice a month until they got to the current level. When you raise the temperature of the pot gradually the frog doesn’t jump out, he dances around trying to get comfortable until he dies. Tesla did that, people continued to order Tesla’s happy that the someone next week was going to pay more.
If Aptera is going to raise prices they need to take a similar approach. Gradually raise the reservation price for new reservations and hold the line as best they can for older reservations but not to the point where they will lose money.
One optimistic note, it’s possible that the prices are realistic. I have a 60KWh AWD reserved at $39K. The Bolt with the same sized battery was selling for $31K before they caught fire and Chevy halted production. The $8K spread between the Aptera and the Bolt gives me hope that they won’t have a Rivian level surprise for us.
- MemberMarch 8, 2022 at 1:21 pm
Elon doesn’t think anyone should get the 600 / 1000 mile version… Can’t say I really disagree.
The Aptera can make 400 miles happen with half the weight / batteries / price of essentially any other option available in North America. I hope the price holds but the company can’t bankrupt itself to do it.
PS: For anyone concerned about vinyl wrap longevity apparently regularly using 303 UV spray (every 2-3 weeks) should really extend the life. Even if its $3000 every 5 years to rewrap that’s not much different than what is saved in basic maintenance on an ICE car.
- MemberMarch 8, 2022 at 1:44 pm
Curtis, regarding your PS: I respectfully disagree regarding the suggestion that it is a solution to force people to do extra maintenance every 2-3 weeks that they do not need to do for the vast majority of vehicles in the world. Clumsily Band-aiding an issue does not build a brand or following. Also, justifying an unfortunate financial / design decision by saying that the EV provides other offsetting cost benefits then basically says that the holistic whole of the overall vehicle provides no financial benefit in comparison to an ICE vehicle. Wraps/paint has no direct correlation to ICE/EV. Let’s make and market the Aptera as great where it shines and not take clear steps backwards in areas that are just simple rudimentary baselines everywhere else (and that are independent of all the great new features of the Aptera as a multi-generational, long range, efficient, solar EV that is also ideally low maintenance).
- MemberMarch 13, 2022 at 12:52 pm
As an Aptera ambassador and Investor, I want to see Aptera be very successful. As the quality and engineering has improved and overall inflation has increased costs have gone up. I know that they are trying very hard to keep costs down, however realities will require adjustments to be made.
The world needs Aptera now!
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 7:26 pm
With inflation ramping up and supply lines strangled, will the initial prices still be the same or will they be expected to increase? A massive incentive of the Aptera is the affordable price. If the price does go up, is there a predicted amount/percentage it will? Thanks!
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 8:22 pm
Anything on this forum would be pure speculation. Inflation from 2010 to 2020 was an average of 1.9%; they could not anticipate current inflation. Assuming their margins were originally fairly tight and we end up woth 10+% total inflation over what they predicted this would likely need to be recovered in a price increase. Hopefully if they can eventually shift to lfp for many scales this could save a fair amount per battery pack and offset this bit it will take time/redevelopment.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 9:19 pm
Since Aptera has not committed to the specs of the model, one less controversial way of offsetting inflation could offer a stripped down version of the model based on the current pricing, then charge for more options, for example, heated seats, phone charging pad, cargo divider, charging port for separate solar panels, 6.6kw (instead of 3.3kw) level 2 charging, etc/etc…
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 9:23 pm
Unfortunately too many options adds a lot to the cost due to increased logistics and manufacturing complexity.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 9:26 pm
I hope they deliver a stripped down car for the promised price. All I care about is being able to solar charge 40miles a day and drive 400 miles per charge. If they end up adding future features I really want than I will add them myself.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 10:32 pm
I would be stunned if they stuck with their original pricing. Tesla just raised their prices again last week by another $3000 on the 3 and Y and by $6000 on the X.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 10:38 pm
One thing to consider it that Aptera established these prices when they thought they might get 1000 reservations – and hoped for 3000. So maybe there’s already a significant buffer in the listed pricing… Remember, too, that the more parts they order, the lower the cost per part.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 4:16 am
I can’t remember where or when (I’ve got Mad Cow-Boston Legal) but I seem to recall that originally there was only 30% of the cars price in the way of materials. That of course was before everyone wanted a rolling office or entertainment center on wheels. How some of these add-ons have effected the current cost is as stated above, speculation.
I’m old school. I’m 64 (had a recent birthday to celebrate another year closer to my conclusion) and I am a driver. That’s to say that when I drive, I drive. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I only have the basic car and solar on reserve. It’s cool looking and makes sense in any market.
If the tech heads and infotainment nerds of the world want a fully loaded, 3 wheeled gismo running down the road, that’s their prerogative.
In order for this car to smash the market it needs to stay within a certain price point in order to appeal to the greatest audience in order to succeed.
Make packages or add-ons as they see fit but leave the price point the way it was since it’s what attracted 25,000 orders before the thing’s been made. You can add all the bells and whistles anywhere in the process.
I’d be willing to do away with my cup holder (bungie) if it’ll help.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 8:45 am
Pretty certain that all pre-order prices are going to rise by at least 1000 dollar, more like 3000.
What we can hope for is that these pre-order prices are going to count for NEW pre-orders. But probably not.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 9:13 am
I think an additional $3000 would drop me from the list. Now we’re talking $29,000 before adding anything. It’s not that I can’t afford it, it’s a matter of principle. If they’ll going to raise the price, show it now and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe state, “New orders will increase to the tune of, or effective,…” Those who have preordered and or invested should keep the price we agreed on. There are those who are willing to make a purchase Paid In Full in order to not only get their Aptera but bring in more cash for the company to continue their pursuit. In other areas of this forum some are even willing to buy site unseen.
Yes, Tesla is raise their pricing. But I think it has more to due with demand than anything. This is the American way. We’re all seen as demand goes up, so does the price. We have a product here that appeals to at lease 15,000 people. They’ve planned this for a few years now. They know the cost involved. If it were getting to the point where they would lose money we’d heard something by now.
- ModeratorJune 21, 2022 at 10:20 am
I think everyone in the EV industry, including Aptera, learned their lesson after the Rivian pricing debacle earlier this year – don’t touch pricing on existing reservation holders.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 10:37 am
Aptera is a business not a social service organization. If, in their business modeling, they determine they need to raise vehicle prices to cover operating costs plus a profit margin acceptable to investors, they will do so and with as little impact on their reservation base and potential customers as possible. Even if the price of every vehicle (All reservation holders) was increased by $3,000, the vehicle would still be a bargain in the long run. I would say at the very least, the price increase would have to be at the annual inflation rate of 8-9% to break even or tice that for two years. So…an increase of 10-20% may not be out of the question. It would be roughly inline with what Tesla is doing with their price increases.
- ModeratorJune 21, 2022 at 10:51 am
I want Aptera to stay in business, especially after I get my car. If they need to reflect reasonable changes in cost, so be it.
- MemberOctober 8, 2022 at 8:29 am
Getting the first thousand or so is the initial goal for APTERA (although local), it will create the buzz and boost that APTERA wants and needs to become a publicly traded company. Even if it takes a bit of time to do so, the stop gap of getting a loan prior to going public may also be an option. If you raise the price of the 1st 1,000 APTERAs built by $3,000 it will give the company an extra $3,000,000. This is not going to make or break the company, as I truly don’t expect them to produce that many more vehicles during 2023. Even if production is triple that, add an extra $9,000,00 in the books.
We all have heard Sandy Munro say he wants APTERA to produce 300,000 a year. We need to first crawl before we can walk. But if that’s the goal (this is why I invested) the sums of money needed to do that will not come from the sales of the 1st 2 years APTERAs. Either a large private infusion of cash or going public will help create this.
On the other hand, it maybe smarter to just stay as lean as possible (continue this path) and build at a sustained pace to fulfill orders . This path for me, if the company needs to raise prices to maintain a viable business and to keep the books healthy and balanced, would be acceptable to make a 1 time adjustment. Those 30k+ reservation holders would all be in the same boat. I think it would be an horrible scenario for each res holder to pay something different from the guy in front of them.
APTERA will need to decide what path they want to take or if forced, need to take. We all want APTERA to succeed.
- MemberOctober 6, 2022 at 10:45 am
I’ve been reading the discussions almost daily since I made my reservation a few weeks ago. I haven’t seen any significant discussion on a certain issue. I may have missed it. Has anyone considered the fact that with runaway inflation, the price estimates for the Aptera may not actually be realized by the time deliveries start? I’m not in the FUD community (I learned what this meant recently), but I think it is an interesting, if not obvious, consideration. I will not be surprised if the price at delivery is more than they’re estimating. I also will not be deterred by market impacts. I also wonder how the economy might impact Aptera’s plans going forward.
- MemberOctober 6, 2022 at 12:38 pm
Chris Anthony indicated that a price adjustment would be needed at some point but provided no forecast of how much, when, or who it would apply to during the Fully Charged gamma reveal. Initially, Aptera was targeting about a 34% margin (Late 2020) That is no longer possible at the currently advertised price point. Aptera will hold off on price increase announcements until delta is done and the production facility setup as the new price will need to cover some of the R&D expense and cost to set up production. Aptera will need to know what those amounts are before going through the pricing calculation. The long pole in the tent will be compensating for increases in the logistics chain costs from the original estimates. I suspect a sizeable change. This condition is not unique to Aptera. All auto manufacturers, to include the mighty Tesla, are experiencing the same conditions. The head of logistics for the Ford motor company was recently fired for the issues logistics is causing Ford.
Reservation holders are holding out for no price increase because they have a vehicle reserved at a specific price. I do not think that will be possible for 30K+ reservations. My opinion, a price increase will come and will apply to all sales including current reservations.
Another issue that affects pricing is market competition. The longer it takes Aptera to get a vehicle into the market, the more competitors there will be for Aptera. GM will have three EVs in the market place in 2023 in the high 20’s/low 30’s in the most desired form factor (Crossover SUV) and with seating for five. This will put downward pressure on Aptera to be price competitive. An artful balance to be price competitive yet priced to cover cost with some margin.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: corrected spelling
- MemberOctober 6, 2022 at 1:07 pm
To say they have no idea of the costing of the vehicle or they represent guesses would seem to be an insult to Sandy Monro. This is the #1 guy in the industry known for pricing the cost of a fastener and welding two odd pieces of steel together to make a latch and the wizard who can point to a two-piece design for an object that is 15% of the cost of the three-piece design because it goes together with a snap in two seconds vs. 1 minute process time to align the disparate parts which have a reputation of busting.
The point is the Aptera was made to be manufactured at the least possible cost in terms of time and labor.
A quick estimate of the ‘value’ might be revealed in the cost per pound. I’ll first analyze two vehicles for comparison. The first is the Aptera which we’ll use the base model FWD with no options. It weighs about 1800lbs and costs $26,000. The next is the base Chevy Bolt which also costs roughly $26,000 but weighs 3,600 lbs.
If they were at the meat market, the Aptera would get $14.44/lb while the Bolt’s price per pound comes in at about half that at $7.22/lb.
Comparing it to Tesla’s standard range Model 3, which runs about $48500 and weighs roughly 3600 lbs. (standard range) suggests a MSRP price per pound at about $13.50/lb. and the long-range performance M3 comes in at just over $15.00/lb.
Certainly this comparison may seem a bit odd or obtuse – but it also becomes quite obvious that the ‘value’ of a vehicle, if distilled a the cost per pound metric suggests what may be possible at various price points as obviously the costs will vary with the rarity and value of its component materials.
And in that shorthand and obviously flawed manner, you can see the Aptera, at current pricing, is competitive with the Model 3 as a built-out package. … i.e. they ought to be able to produce an Aptera at the same cost per pound as Model 3 … or is its trim and materials – with the exception of the composite monocoque more in line with the quality one might experience in the $7.22 lb Bolt?
I think what they’ve done with Sandy Monro’s lean manufacturing techniques, leap-frogged the competition in terms of overall manufacturability that uses much less labor per vehicle, lower costs because of lighter-electrical components (50kw DC fast charging instead of …, etc.) and overall minimized and organized the componentry into sub-components that are built with equally advanced techniques that minimize parts and maximize the utility of the components.
The initial prices offered for the Aptera were indeed guesses; guesses made from a marketing standpoint of what they would have to sell the Aptera for to maximize demand for the vehicle.
Why would they do that? I’ll answer, first principle … the world needs 50 million Aptera on the roads self-charging to grease the wheels of our economy ‘sustainably.’ If there were an all powerful being/dictator, if he/she had any sense would just will it and it would be done. But that is not how the world works. To get that many on the roads and saving the earth, someone is going to have to build them and sell them.
They set the price at the level they thought they could do this from a market acceptance approach and then went to work to build it to make as great a profit at that price as they could muster.
The affordable price (and how to eke out the greatest profit at that price) being almost an integral part of the larger task of saving the friggin world. I mean they could have priced the Tesla’s on a per-pound basis and extrapolated the Tesla per-pound price for their offer and used the Bolt, per pound price as their goal for production.
You didn’t know you were part of a conspiracy to save the world, did you 🙂
Let me diverge momentarily because it is plainly and brutally obvious that the cost per pound of a vehicle has only the most ephemeral connection to its value as it deals with about the broadest estimating brush available.
I use it as a tool in this case to establish ‘reasonableness’ of the proposition that there is ‘adequate profit’ in the Aptera MSRP to deliver the goods promised. It is a quick and easy test of said reasonableness that may be more telling than its comparison of gross values may imply.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by George Hughes. Reason: as per lower criticism ... two posts