Aptera going to Lithium Iron Phosphate for their batteries

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aptera going to Lithium Iron Phosphate for their batteries

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aptera going to Lithium Iron Phosphate for their batteries

  • Aptera going to Lithium Iron Phosphate for their batteries

     M T updated 32 minutes ago 11 Members · 13 Posts
  • M T

    Member
    August 4, 2022 at 5:15 pm

    More weight to the rumours already circulating:

    Looks like it may be after the initial deliveries, and maybe for select range options. I think LiFePO4 is a very good shift, but I was kind of hoping for LiCo for my 400 mile AWD variant, for maximum push 🙂

    What do you think? Would you be OK with LiFePO4 and it’s higher weight per kwh, if it meant better safety and basically never having to worry about battery life?

  • John Malcom

    Member
    August 4, 2022 at 7:21 pm

    I think LiFeO4 batteries are more practical in an Aptera because of it’s overall efficiency. A performance hit, but not as much as would be in an EV that is less efficiently designed. I think the robustness of the chemistry regarding charging is the biggest draw for me. I live in FL so the hit for cold weather charging is not a factor in my case. With battery warming I think not for those in cold climates either, but that is an evaluation they must make for themselves. Safety is less of a advantage for me. I think the current battery chemistry is safe enough.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    August 4, 2022 at 8:08 pm

    @M T LFP cells are currently only available in “prismatic” format: ie, pouches in a box. Apparently they do not function well in cylindrical format. This makes them larger and heavier than cylindrical cells so I think there might be packaging issues to consider.

    There is, however, a tremendous amount of research being done with LFP with the goal of increasing energy density and diminishing the effects of environmental temperature.

  • Steve Wanamaker

    Member
    August 6, 2022 at 10:21 pm

    I think LFP a good idea for the 25 kWh model. You get to use all of that 1-100% with less degradation. At a 50% weight penalty it would weigh like a 38 kWh lithium battery. Tesla is said to be using LFP in China for their lower range models. Aptera will have to provide a warmer for the battery, but they should be doing that anyway to allow preconditioning for fast charging.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      August 7, 2022 at 12:55 am

      The extra weight (and volume) of lfp is not insignificant but with less weight or volume than the cell blocks alone for the 1000 mile based on 2170 they could make a 600 mile using readily available lfp. Specifically the eve 280k could be a good option since its their current supplier. 600 miles with a pack that happily goes to 100% would be massively useful. A large battery size increases the odds that someone running solar only will make it through periods of bad weather (bigger buffer).

      Showing my work: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tuu7avKH2dS_JPk7aiP2av09a1f1WE0OvvNH6fdHpiQ/edit?usp=drivesdk

      • M T

        Member
        August 8, 2022 at 8:09 am

        Thanks for sharing your work. If I am reading your spreadsheet correctly, it would mean an LFP version of the 400 mile range Apetra would be roughly 178lbs heavier than the NMC version (assuming the more likely/common LFP cells available). That does not seem too bad for the advantages of LFP (no issues with charging to 100%, basically no issues with cycling or degradation given the very high LFP life cycle). If they can have a robust cold charging/battery protection heating system for the cold climate people (maybe use some of the extra power from the solar cells to keep the batteries warm), it seems the pros would outweigh the cons for me. But I will be happy with either battery technology that will get me my car the earliest 😉

  • Paul Carlucci

    Member
    August 7, 2022 at 5:07 am

    LFP likes to be charged to 100% which seems like an important feature in a vehicle which has a trickle charger permanently installed. I’d be willing to wait longer for an Aptera that has LFP instead especially considering the inherent safety advantages of it as well as the social benefit to them being cobalt-free.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 7, 2022 at 9:00 am

      Certainly benefits from LFP Batteries both tech/operational and social. I think this is validated by Aptera moving to LFP for future builds. Of course this would require reengineering and software work so I would not expect this to happen until after Aptera has a steady stream of sales revenue for the current version to support that work in addition to working on the four wheel version. Perhaps we would not see LFP until the four wheel Aptera is released.

      For me, I want to enjoy the efficiencies of the Aptera as soon as possible so I am fine with the current battery chemistry.

  • Dennis Swaney

    Member
    August 7, 2022 at 10:02 am

    I wonder if we will be able to “upgrade” the batteries in the initial runs to better ones in a year or two?

    • Mark Salyzyn

      Member
      August 7, 2022 at 10:15 am

      They have already stated that one can not change the pack kwhr after taking delivery.

      There might be issues beyond the pack. I am of the opinion that each range rating will have a suspension tuned for the weight of the battery pack. Most certainly going to be a difference between 400 and 1000 mile options. In consultation with Aptera, they no doubt may have some pain points, lines that will be too costly to cross, and when producing 20000 vehicles/year, pain points that need to be generalized so they are not too burdened refactoring your vehicle.

      Aftermarket may serve you, but the disservice that may result in much poorer handling or comfort.

      • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

        Member
        August 7, 2022 at 11:18 am

        I may be wrong, but IIRC what Aptera has said is, that you could not add modules on to an existing vehicle to increase the range, but it sounded like it might be possible to replace the entire pack with a larger/smaller one. (I would assume with the corresponding adjustment of suspension, etc.)

        Additionally, I think that what Dennis is saying here, is not necessarily changing the range size, but replacing the pack with a more modern one (LFP, etc.) as they become available.

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        August 7, 2022 at 11:52 am

        Once again you misconstrue what people post. Where in my post did I write ANYTHING about going from a 400 to a 1000 battery? This thread is NOT about that, rather it is about using a newer battery chemistry after the initial production runs. So I was wondering IF there would be the POSSIBILITY of replacing the obsolete chemistry batteries with the better chemistry batteries.

        Yes, OZ, that is exactly what I asked.

        • This reply was modified 19 hours, 29 minutes ago by  Dennis Swaney. Reason: Added response to OZ's post
  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    August 7, 2022 at 12:16 pm

    I hope it’s the LFP when I get my call, ordered 6/22/22.

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