APTERA is better than this. How Much Better?

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News APTERA is better than this. How Much Better?

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News APTERA is better than this. How Much Better?

  • APTERA is better than this. How Much Better?

  • Guy SKEER

    Member
    December 22, 2021 at 10:50 am
  • Joel Smith

    Member
    December 22, 2021 at 11:28 am

    My current EV goes about 4 miles per kWh. My impression is that is about typical, maybe even a bit better than most of the currently available EVs. Aptera should go about 10 miles per kWh, so that’s 2½ times better. Fair to say then that Aptera should be 2½ times better than what’s described in the article. That’s without considering onboard solar gain or energy embodied in the vehicle life cycle.

    The claim being fact checked by the article is so blatantly hyperbolic in its attempt to defame EVs, it seems a shame to give it even enough credence to be worthy of taking the effort of debunking it.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 22, 2021 at 11:44 am

      Unfortunately mainstream media care nothing about accuracy. Old school newspapers used to (sometimes) care about accuracy and would issue corrections but modern media is clickbate.

      Any EV is cleaner than gas even on a dirty grid – this has had a lot of studies. No stopping EV adoption at this point – we are well past the tipping point and even Toyota has accepted this. Extreme efficiency is generally situational and will not be the strong selling point it should be.

      I find it interesting that the smaller/lighter Spiritus (cool competition if its real – https://aptera.us/community/discussion/canadian-competition-daymak-spiritus/) needs 50% more battery for 25% less range. Aptera has done an amazing bit of engineering but I’m still really happy they didnt go with insanely specialized tires.

      Canadian Competition – Daymak Spiritus

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        December 22, 2021 at 3:07 pm

        It all comes down to coefficient of drag. Phil Hill set a land speed record for engines 1.5L or less in 1959 in the MG Streamliner, that record stands to this day. He did 254MPH with a car that only had 300HP, far far less than other land speed cars. The key was that the COD was .12. Aptera has a COD of .13. The other interesting tidbit that this video mentions was that the car only used 29HP to maintain 100 MPH.

      • Elzo Stubbe

        Member
        January 16, 2022 at 6:23 am

        Daymak Spiritus: Bitcoin mining as a selling point……

  • Jeffrey Parker

    Member
    December 22, 2021 at 6:11 pm

    I like this video from Engineering Explained with citations, math, and graphs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM

    Favorite quote: “Using a 3,000 pound object to move a 150 pound object is not the most efficient or green way to do things. Biking or walking is a far more greener option.”

    Are electric vehicles better for the environment than gasoline vehicles? 3 points made are :

    1. Does producing electric car batteries produce a lot of emissions?

    1a. 2-17 metric tonnes of CO2 for production of new vehicles

    1b. the battery is the highest CO2 cost for EVs and assumed in addition to the production of chassis. (30kw battery = 1-5 tonnes, 100kw battery = 6-17.5 tonnes)

    2. Are electric cars powered by fossil fuels (from power plants) offsetting any emission benefits? Assumed 12,000 miles/year, 33 miles/day. 1 barrel of oil consumed (42 gallons) is 430 kg of CO2

    2a. Gasoline national average for ICE only, CO2 emissions per year is 5.2 tonnes

    2b. EV national average emissions 2 tonnes per year

    2b1. source of electricity varies per state.

    Idaho (high hydroelectric) EV emissions is 0.4 tonnes.

    West Virginia (high coal) EV emissions is 4.2 tonnes.

    2c. In no state does ICE have less CO2 emissions than EVs.

    2d. Not in every state is an EV only car the best option. (hybrids)

    3. Is lithium mining terrible for the environment?

    3a. Mainly done in desolate areas, ie. desserts. Conversely, oil can be done in more ecologically fragile areas. Search for California hidden oil drilling in city.

    3b. Misconception, lithium makes up only about 5-7% of a battery, with cobalt @ 5-20% and nickle @ 5-10%. So a 2000 pound battery has about 15 pounds of lithium.

    Conclusion: Choosing to buy and drive a 30kw EV can result in fewer emissions compared to a new ICE in as little as 1 year or compared to continued use (only looking at annual CO2 emissions) of an ICE in 5 years.

    Exception: End of life emissions (scrapping and recycling) are relatively low compared to production and usage for both ICE and EV.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 22, 2021 at 6:41 pm

      Added some Aptera specific notes. As much as these points are already myths for EVs Aptera makes them just completely wrong.

      1. Does producing electric car batteries produce a lot of emissions?

      The aptera is a lightweight vehicle with a relatively small battery (40kw is the most common choice). The initial and battery related CO2 will likely be far lower (perhaps even lower than an average ICE car given aptera is 1/2 it’s weight).

      2. Are electric cars powered by fossil fuels (from power plants) offsetting any emission benefits? Assumed 12,000 miles/year, 33 miles/day. 1 barrel of oil consumed (42 gallons) is 430 kg of CO2

      The efficiency of the Aptera will likely bring the average CO2 from the 2 ton average down to roughly 700kg. Using less energy to move the same distance will result in less energy being needed. Solar on the car may bring this downs to under 350kg (potentially zero) for many people.

      3. Is lithium mining terrible for the environment?

      Battery end of life as an input for new production is theoretically coming making the battery a recycled component. New lithium extraction (membranes) and recycling technologies are coming but we are already environmentally worthwhile without them. Nickle and Cobalt are just as significant if not more so (until we kick that bucket with LFP). A battery lasts 300k miles or more while a tank of gas is 300 miles. I strongly believe we will eventually get a LFP based version of the aptera and that further reduces the battery related environmental impact / longevity; the tech wasn’t really proven when they started work in 2019 and it will never allow for the 1000 mile headline (perhaps 800 miles tops)

      • Jeffrey Parker

        Member
        December 22, 2021 at 8:55 pm

        I don’t think these points are myths as they have been studied and reported that EVs produce fewer CO2 emissions across the board vs ICE. Also, Aptera doesn’t makes these points completely wrong, but more like the Aptera makes it sway much further towards the point that efficient EVs produce far less CO2 over the lifetime of the vehicle due to less material and efficient transportation. On the other hand, there are still some certain aspects where battery tech (as is now) does not lend itself to, i.e. transporting large masses.

        The weight savings and aero efficiency just makes it so much more on the side of electricity is the better use of energy from any source, either from solar or fossil fuels. See heat pumps, able to move near 4 times the heat for the same amount of energy input versus gas furnaces or resistance heaters.

        I like the point that 1 gallon of gas is 33 kwh of energy. With 1 gallon of gas an ICE can go about 30 miles (.9 miles per kwh). While an Aptera with a 25 kwh battery can go near 250 miles (100 miles per kwh). Also, an ebike with a 0.4 kwh battery can go 50 miles (125 miles per kwh, plus pedaling if out of juice).

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