Aptera rear end and light design

[ROMAD]

Remember Aptera has to meet US “Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.” Since this forum doesn’t allow linked text, you’ll have to go to the page direct: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/xml/CFR-2004-title49-vol5-sec571-108.xml

[paul-evans]

Check out the latest video update, Gebhardt. Aptera has modified rear of the car to make the aerodynamics even better for the Gamma version that will be built soon.

[gebhardt-poeppe]

Yes, I know. Saw it.

But that update didn’t change the shape of rear lights. They look the same.

[robert-horton-ii]

I’d like the Aptera to have sequential turn signals like the new Audis and Mach-E.

[kerbe2705]

@Robert Horton II Watch this vehicle to see the sequential turn signals: https://youtu.be/xx5DvHhNuuM

[BigSky]

Given how thin the rear lighting will be, I think sequential lighting makes a lot of sense

[Sam]

Has anyone seen a pic of it yet, pinched for improved airflow. Please share.

[OZ.]

Here’s the rear end of Gamma.

[pere-andreu-pere-andreu]

Hi! I know this topic is already somewhat old, but I came up with this thought/conclusion now, and I think this is the post most related to it. I hope the people at Aptera read it anyway.
The thing is that there is a design flaw in Aptera that has been overlooked because of a design criteria. And after this design criteria has been removed, the design flaw stands. I am talking about the rear corners of the Aptera. Ever since I have seen the Gamma reveal, I have been scratching my head about that clear plastic corner for the rear turn indicators that are screaming: “break me!” (see picture).

Unlike the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators on the wheel pants, which are curved and therefore well integrated within the wheel pants, the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators at the rear have to contour a sharp corner

The reason for that sharp corner was only because there were the chevron solar panels, and they needed the horizontal surface generated by that corner. But once the chevron solar panels are gone, that corner is no longer needed.
Instead, by removing that corner and trimming it, the access to the trunk would be much easier

In addition, if you look at the suggestions by the artificial intelligence software regarding the aerodynamic optimization, that part is suggested to be minimized, and it is not suggested to be removed because of the design restriction of having to house the chevron solar panels ( https://youtu.be/zqKEXQw2S2E?t=1m24s ).

Besides, that part is already very thin and aerodynamically-wise, it can be trimmed off, reducing the “wetted” surface and therefore reducing the overall skin friction of the car. In order to avoid increasing the turbulent drag, the trimming curve shall be designed elliptical.Hi! I know this topic is already somewhat old, but I came up with this thought/conclusion now, and I think this is the post most related to it. I hope the people at Aptera read it anyway. The thing is that there is a design flaw in Aptera that has been overlooked because of a design criteria. And after this design criteria has been removed, the design flaw stands. I am talking about the rear corners of the Aptera. Ever since I have seen the Gamma reveal, I have been scratching my head about that clear plastic corner for the rear turn indicators that are screaming: “break me!” (see picture).

Unlike the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators on the wheel pants, which are curved and therefore well integrated within the wheel pants, the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators at the rear have to contour a sharp corner
The reason for that sharp corner was only because there were the chevron solar panels, and they needed the horizontal surface generated by that corner. But once the chevron solar panels are gone, that corner is no longer needed. Instead, by removing that corner and trimming it, the access to the trunk would be much easier
In addition, if you look at the suggestions by the artificial intelligence software regarding the aerodynamic optimization, that part is suggested to be minimized, and it is not suggested to be removed because of the design restriction of having to house the chevron solar panels ( https://youtu.be/zqKEXQw2S2E?t=1m24s ).
Besides, that part is already very thin and aerodynamically-wise, it can be trimmed off, reducing the “wetted” surface and therefore reducing the overall skin friction of the car. In order to avoid increasing the turbulent drag, the trimming curve shall be designed elliptical.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Norman Roberts.

[michael-witkowski]

What I keep asking myself is: why weren’t the taillights designed as a line parallel to the ground when viewed from the side? A sloping line stands for something negative in the design language and I think it is a visual deficit.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by  Michael Witkowski. Reason: Double text

[Greek]

Total agreement with visual stance of the side view. Definitely it’s weakest point of the vehicles visual appearance. Even if they keep the same pitch of the line on the side of the vehicle, it doesn’t have to be as long as it is. Maybe negating 2/3 of the line would look more balanced. I’ve never seen a vehicle that has lighting wrapped that far away from the back of the tail lights.

[kerbe2705]

My guess is that the rendering provides the clue to the angle of the side-light/reflector. Automotive designers from Harley Earl to Raymond Loewy wanted bodies to have long, continuous reflections down their sides – making the design seem longer, lower and more “swoopy”. If you look at the rendering you’ll see that there’s a “reflection” line running down the side of the body that terminates with the light in question.

The light is on the very edge of the body side panel’s curvature – essentially the only line upon which a “flat” light fixture could be mounted on the side of the body. If the fixture was parallel to the ground it would need to cut through the curve of the body or be curved and twisted itself to give the appearance of straightness.

[Riley]

I think a slight modification of the side of the rear taillights will be very easy. From what I can tell the final production model will have a split between the side marker and tailight if it really negatively affects the aethetics I will unplug the side marker than cover it with matched vinyl.

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[rex-schneider]

Forgive me if this has been addressed. The Delta design shows the wrap around tail lights dark on the corners. On the Gama this was a solid light down the side linking to the tail light as it wraps around the car. I am really hoping this is just a render issue and not a change to the rear lights. They are elegant on the Gama and it looks weird with the lights just stopping part of the way down the side of the car. Does anyone know what happened here?

[Riley]

They decided to put EVA foam on the corners, I assume the gamma with its exposed corners may have caused concern for too easily damaged lenses.

[Greek]

Yep..to confirm, was done to have a replaceable piece that would most likely be a vulnerable place of damage.

Pretty much all the areas that the use their foamy material I may spray paint a different color as to accent the vehicle. Not sure yet what color until I receive.

[george-hughes]

I think all those are great reasons but I think the deciding factor would be the softer material would be more forgiving to a pedestrian or cyclist. That, at least, was my first reaction as to the reason for the change.

I think from a branding image standpoint, that is a lot more comforting than bean-counter logic.

However, another likely reason may be because the folks who make plastic lenses said that to fabricate the big one with the curve would be prohibitive in cost on a run of 20,000 units.

If the upgrade to the more complex lens comes to pass, it will likely be to the same design and could be an upgrade.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  George Hughes.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

Since we’re talking about Delta tail lights, I’ve always wondered about that perpendicular thin red stripe on the rear vertical EVA wheel pant foam. Is that a tail light or just a red reflector lens (or vinyl adhesive)?

[wingsounds13]

I’ve wondered the same thing. My first guess would be a reflector, but I would prefer it to be a brake light. This would make it even harder to miss the brake lights.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  J.P. Morere.

[kerbe2705]

@James G Jason Hill told us the vertical stripe was a reflector. The brake lights are on either side of the tail with a third high-mounted light above the rear hatch.

[craig-merrow]

Not sure if this was ever confirmed, but are the turn signals sequential?

[ROMAD]

Shades of the ’64 T-bird! First car to have sequential turn signals.

[craig-merrow]

I was just thinking how cool it would be on Aptera with those wraparound taillights and the lights on the pants!

[Sam]

I liked those longer side lights that wrapped around to join the rear.

[craig-merrow]

I can see how that makes sense. It’s also easier to manufacture two smaller sections instead of one big piece. Either way, it would still look cool if the lights worked sequentially, but that’s just me.

[Sam]

Did they really have to go for some technical limitation? Or is it simply to protect them from accidental breakage? Please, leave me responsible for that and put them back. Pretty pretty please, bring back those wraparound taillights.

[ROMAD]

You may not care about replacing them several times per year due to inattentive drivers hitting your Aptera at a cost of hundreds of dollars, but most owners will. The wrap arounds are just eye candy form over function.

That said, you can always put reflectors or LED strip lights over the foam impact sections.

[raymond-green]

Yes, since the foamy rear corner areas look to be easily replaceable, it presents an opportunity for a third party to design and sell a replacement wraparound fixture (or whatever is deemed fashionable).

[Greek]

🛳 Sorry…that ship has sailed.<div>There were multiple reasons to decide against the tail lights wrapping around the corners. Cost, durability and the likelihood of external forces breaking or chipping it. The Delta mind you is a different vehicle with a different build. From an engineering standpoint it was an area that made it tough to have the panels meet in the rear corners to also add a wraparound. The design has been finalized and I personally am happy with what they went with. It was also a much more expensive part to produce and to replace. Insurance is also something that needs to be considered, no matter how inexpensive the APTERA would be to operate, how much sense does it make if you have to pay much higher rates to insure the vehicle. </div>

[craig-merrow]

I was thinking the same thing early on; much cheaper to produce the taillight in two pieces rather than one large one, along with the cost to replace it. I view this as a positive thing, as it shows Aptera is trying to minimize repair/replacement costs of the vehicle compared to most automobile manufacturers. I still hope to see sequential turn signals, though!

[Sam]

Okay, fine, I guess, they did look good. Sequential, at least?

[StevenKarabatsos]

Are the turn signals going to be amber? There are arguments that red turn signals create ambiguity. The US allows red turn signals but other countries do not.

[al-purzycki]

I agree, amber rear turn signal are necessary.

In 2008, NHTSA (the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), released tentative findings that amber (“yellow”) turn signals are up to 28% more effective at avoiding crashes than red ones.

Amber rear signals are required in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Asia (including Japan, China, and Korea), South Africa, and most of South America. Outside North America, red turn signals have been banned almost everywhere for 35 to 55 years.

If the Aptera is going to be marketed / sold. / manufactured internationally, you may as well make the rear turn signal amber on release of the vehicle..

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  al-purzycki. Reason: Punctuation