Aptera rear end and light design

[Gebhardt Poeppe]

I recently discovered the Aptera and I am absolutely amazed by it!
love the design and the whole concept! The only thing that distract me a bit is the shape of the backlights (especially from sideview). The whole car is so sleek and curvy but the backlights are so stiff and straight. It kinda looks weird (for me).

I tried to make my own alternative design, to adapt the shape of the rear lights somewhat to the overall car design
This is made with Windows Paint (lol). Sorry for that, im not a designer.

What do you think about that?

[Dennis Swaney]

Remember Aptera has to meet US “Standard No. 108; Lamps, reflective devices, and associated equipment.” Since this forum doesn’t allow linked text, you’ll have to go to the page direct: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/xml/CFR-2004-title49-vol5-sec571-108.xml

[Paul Evans]

Check out the latest video update, Gebhardt. Aptera has modified rear of the car to make the aerodynamics even better for the Gamma version that will be built soon.

[Gebhardt Poeppe]

Yes, I know. Saw it.

But that update didn’t change the shape of rear lights. They look the same.

[Dennis Swaney]

Perhaps that is the best they can currently do under Standard 108 requirements? The standard mandates MINIMUM area sizes and viewing angles for the various front, side, and rear lights.

[Dennis Swaney]

The thread on sequential rear turn signals triggered the following thoughts.

The rear turn signals on the Alpha & Beta builds are red. IIRC, the EU requires they be amber, so shouldn’t the final design have amber rear turn signals? This should not be a problem with the use of dual color LEDs like those used in the front of recent vehicles that are both white & amber: white as DRLs that turn amber when the turn signals are activated. Actually they might have to be tri-color: red for tail lights, bright red for brake lights, and amber for turn signals,

The other question regards fog lights, both front and rear. Again, this may be limited to only certain European countries, but German cars usually have a bright red rear fog warning light on the left. I wonder how Aptera will meet those requirements. Here is the left tail light assembly on my VW Jetta Wagon:

[Kevin Bradbury]

In the US, an enclosed motorcycle doesn’t have to meet the same standards as an automobile. Not sure if the standards are different in Europe as well. Even so, there will be substantial design changes to meet European width requirements and I imagine they will take all other necessary changes in mind at that time.

[Dennis Swaney]

That really wasn’t what I was asking. I know these United States have very lax rules otherwise all turn signals front & rear, no matter the number of wheels, would be amber. It was only the Status of Forces Agreements that allowed US military members to use US spec vehicles in Europe. I was wondering what EUROPEAN specs (other than CCS2 charging) Aptera would have to meet and if rear amber turn signals and fog lights would be required. It would be interesting to see how Aptera would meet them. The rear turn signals being amber would be easy and the same could be used in North American Apterae. My Jetta light assembly was just an example of European lights.

[Sam Adams]

Has anyone seen a pic of it yet, pinched for improved airflow. Please share.

[John Malcom]

The punched tail was in a render. It is not expected to be implemented in the actual gamma

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

Nay Nay John, don’t forget the new fleet renders, probably will be on the vehicle.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  OZ (It's OZ, Just OZ).

[John Malcom]

This is not the pinched a** Check out at 1.38 of the aero video narrated by Chris for the “Pinch” not in the fleet or gamma renders.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Added reference
• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

John, are you talking about 1:00-1:10 in the video below? I can’t find another video or version of this, and it’s only 1:35 long.

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  OZ (It's OZ, Just OZ).

[John Malcom]

Yep, 1.09. My error😥

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

Please tell me nobody thought that the change would actually look like the video. (Full disclosure, I thought so at first, until I took a step back and reanalyzed a few things, like for instance Jason Hill having a coronary if it was going to look like that.)

First, I’m pretty sure that video is not being made from AirShaper but some other modeling software.

Second, if that was the actual shape that was found to be the most effective, it’s pretty ugly, and you don’t want something that turns people off, (See my JH comment above.) so you would take the best compromise you could find.

Third, If we listen to what Chris is saying as the video covers this, we hear “By reducing the thickness of our tail” which is what they did. Remember we’ve had some renders of the improved design since February, the latest ones just give us a better view. To me what was being done here was just giving us a little insight into the process in simple terms. (Compare this with the battery images on the order page, not what it really looks like shown in an exaggerated fashion.)

If we compare an Alpha render with the new one, the slimming of the tail is quite apparent.

[Sam Adams]

I think that pic is alpha to beta, not beta to gamma (viewed from the rear).

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

The terminology we are using, is a bit confusing. I would say that the Alphas are Body Type I. The Beta we have seen is Body Type II. I would be very surprised, if the Gammas are not Body Type II. (We should have an answer to this, this week.)

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  OZ (It's OZ, Just OZ).

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

Well well, what have we here, the rear end of a Gamma, I rest my case.

[Dennis Swaney]

Do you think the red areas in the tail are actual tail/brake lights or just reflectors? If actual lights, then the outer white parts could be amber sequential turn signals.

Also, it looks like they did not thin the body above & below the lights as they said they were going to do.

[Kevin Bradbury]

I’m thinking the inner ovals are brake lights with reverse lights in the centers because they don’t reflect very much of the camera spotlight in the screen grab above. That said, the upper brake lights look like they are illuminated and none of the lower lights look like they are on. Go figure.

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

Kevin, maybe just a reflection of the ceiling lights or the flash if one was used?

[OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)]

Dennis, if you scroll up to the pictures a bit above, the left picture is what you could call “Build 1” which was used on the Alphas, after reviewing the information gathered from AirShaper, they pinched the tail thinner towards the edges and designed “Build 2” which is used on the Beta and Gamma models.

[Dennis Swaney]

Thanks. Somehow I got the impression that the middle area where the charger connects would stay the same thickness but then there would be a sharp taper on the sides to reduce the body area above & below the lights. The Gamma style rear is much better than the Alpha.

[Sam Adams]

Dennis, like Kevin, I think the inner reds are brakes with reverse inside. The outer turns, since clear now are probably amber, like you said. I’d prefer they combine the whole thing as red running, brake and sequential turn but keep the reverse inside as it is.

Oz, haha, like Dennis said, they did plan on pinching her even more. Hey, maybe there’ll be a build 3…:)

[Jonah Jorgenson]

No plan to pinch more. The program indicated that “Pinching” would provide some additional aerodynamic benefit. After evaluating that output, in their “Plan” they decided to forgo the small additional benefit for a better aesthetic and adequate space for other components.

[Sam Adams]

As AirShaper suggested, the pants and rear wheel skirt was fine tuned. Why on earth would they skip the third suggestion. EDIT: this video was presented in just last June’s webinar at the 28:30 mark.

https://youtu.be/sw7_XWdd56c

• This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by  Sam Adams.

[Sam Adams]

I beg to differ. Below is the last webinar. In it you’ll see that short video I shared above at about the 28 minute mark. Note that after that short video plays, Chris quotes it as the beta, “now that you’ve seen what the beta looks like”, his exact words! Also, afterwards, when Jason shows his video about the gamma, you can clearly see the even slimmer rear but, unfortunately, only from the side.

https://youtu.be/TFl3GbJWPf0

[Steven G. Bueche]

Well now we know why the push for the Tesla plug. The charge port is in the rear. This we all knew. Most other plugs would cause a relocation or redesign of the body. So now it becomes a license agreement with Tesla.

I don’t like the bad animation of the tail. It looks bad and makes Aptera look bad. Is the tail pinched at the ends or all the way across? I can see the ends being smaller. The center rear needs the girth for charging ports and tags.

Thoughts?

[Sam Adams]

There is another video where it’s immediately noted that it’s the program causing the squeeze to appear so funky. I believe it’s Steve’s in the Aptera Owners Club. The corner though, it’s about accurate, I think. It remains that slim till it reaches the center where it expands just enough.

[Pere-Andreu Pere-Andreu]

Hi! I know this topic is already somewhat old, but I came up with this thought/conclusion now, and I think this is the post most related to it. I hope the people at Aptera read it anyway.
The thing is that there is a design flaw in Aptera that has been overlooked because of a design criteria. And after this design criteria has been removed, the design flaw stands. I am talking about the rear corners of the Aptera. Ever since I have seen the Gamma reveal, I have been scratching my head about that clear plastic corner for the rear turn indicators that are screaming: “break me!” (see picture).

Unlike the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators on the wheel pants, which are curved and therefore well integrated within the wheel pants, the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators at the rear have to contour a sharp corner

The reason for that sharp corner was only because there were the chevron solar panels, and they needed the horizontal surface generated by that corner. But once the chevron solar panels are gone, that corner is no longer needed.
Instead, by removing that corner and trimming it, the access to the trunk would be much easier

In addition, if you look at the suggestions by the artificial intelligence software regarding the aerodynamic optimization, that part is suggested to be minimized, and it is not suggested to be removed because of the design restriction of having to house the chevron solar panels ( https://youtu.be/zqKEXQw2S2E?t=1m24s ).

Besides, that part is already very thin and aerodynamically-wise, it can be trimmed off, reducing the “wetted” surface and therefore reducing the overall skin friction of the car. In order to avoid increasing the turbulent drag, the trimming curve shall be designed elliptical.Hi! I know this topic is already somewhat old, but I came up with this thought/conclusion now, and I think this is the post most related to it. I hope the people at Aptera read it anyway.
The thing is that there is a design flaw in Aptera that has been overlooked because of a design criteria. And after this design criteria has been removed, the design flaw stands. I am talking about the rear corners of the Aptera. Ever since I have seen the Gamma reveal, I have been scratching my head about that clear plastic corner for the rear turn indicators that are screaming: “break me!” (see picture).


Unlike the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators on the wheel pants, which are curved and therefore well integrated within the wheel pants, the clear plastic covers for the turn indicators at the rear have to contour a sharp corner
The reason for that sharp corner was only because there were the chevron solar panels, and they needed the horizontal surface generated by that corner. But once the chevron solar panels are gone, that corner is no longer needed.
Instead, by removing that corner and trimming it, the access to the trunk would be much easier
In addition, if you look at the suggestions by the artificial intelligence software regarding the aerodynamic optimization, that part is suggested to be minimized, and it is not suggested to be removed because of the design restriction of having to house the chevron solar panels ( https://youtu.be/zqKEXQw2S2E?t=1m24s ).

Besides, that part is already very thin and aerodynamically-wise, it can be trimmed off, reducing the “wetted” surface and therefore reducing the overall skin friction of the car. In order to avoid increasing the turbulent drag, the trimming curve shall be designed elliptical.

• This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  Norman Roberts.

[Michael Witkowski]

What I keep asking myself is: why weren’t the taillights designed as a line parallel to the ground when viewed from the side? A sloping line stands for something negative in the design language and I think it is a visual deficit.

• This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Michael Witkowski. Reason: Double text

[John Voules]

Total agreement with visual stance of the side view. Definitely it’s weakest point of the vehicles visual appearance. Even if they keep the same pitch of the line on the side of the vehicle, it doesn’t have to be as long as it is. Maybe negating 2/3 of the line would look more balanced. I’ve never seen a vehicle that has lighting wrapped that far away from the back of the tail lights.

[Paul Schultz]

It probably is following the line of the 2 body components for ease of partly covering the seam under the lighting.

Edit: Not covering a seam line. Just watched the CPC animated rendering and there are not 2 components coming together at the rear light line.

• This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Paul Schultz.
• This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Paul Schultz.
• This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Paul Schultz.

[kerbe2705]

@Paul Schultz From the latest video we know that the entire side panel of the vehicle is one continuous piece of sheet-molded fiberglass – so there’s no seam to hide.

[Sam Adams]

I see it as a positive slope going upward that levels off when you floor it. That rather long and sleek lens on the sides look good on Aptera’s unique tail, there is no other like it.

[kerbe2705]

My guess is that the rendering provides the clue to the angle of the side-light/reflector. Automotive designers from Harley Earl to Raymond Loewy wanted bodies to have long, continuous reflections down their sides – making the design seem longer, lower and more “swoopy”. If you look at the rendering you’ll see that there’s a “reflection” line running down the side of the body that terminates with the light in question.

The light is on the very edge of the body side panel’s curvature – essentially the only line upon which a “flat” light fixture could be mounted on the side of the body. If the fixture was parallel to the ground it would need to cut through the curve of the body or be curved and twisted itself to give the appearance of straightness.

[Riley …]

I think a slight modification of the side of the rear taillights will be very easy. From what I can tell the final production model will have a split between the side marker and tailight if it really negatively affects the aethetics I will unplug the side marker than cover it with matched vinyl.

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