Aptera Maker Series Videos

[kerbe2705]

An interview with Aptera’s Lead Battery Engineer, Luke! https://youtu.be/DeNSS-NcT3A

[fanfare-100]

Until they bring the thumbs-up button back: Thank you for posting this.

[steve-lee]

Great video. I just wish there was more technical information. I don’t mind the “meet the team” vibe of the video for the first video. Next time let’s get more specification and information though 🙂

[kerbe2705]

These videos aren’t for “preaching to the choir” – they’re more about informing the general public and convincing the hesitant.

Specs are changing daily – they’ve told us this time and again during the various webinars. The tech info we gained from this vid includes the use of water-formed aluminum in the pack housing, their focus on reducing weight and simplifying manufacturing and their search for an maximized battery chemistry.

[nick-m]

For batteries, I understand that you don’t want to go out on limb, at least initially. So cylindrical cells, probably NCM chemistry, 400v … all standard stuff, and the key thing you’re thinking about is integration. I get it, but the pushevs website has these things to think about for the future:

800-volt systems: more efficient, lighter motors vs. 400v

Silicon anodes: silicon/graphite is here now, but higher % silicon is coming

Cobalt-free batteries: switch from NCM to LFP, you’ll lose some energy density, but gain in safety and cost, simpler management, and no conflict minerals

CTP battery packs: Check out BYD’s blade batteries, works well with LFP chemistry

Solar roofs: Aptera is already there!

V2G and V2L: vehicle-to-whatever is coming

Aerodynamic improvements: Aptera is already there!

Wireless charging: well, someday

[Pistonboy]

I like the shirt he is wearing.

I don’t see it in the swag portion of the website.

[JRWiley]

So, Ioswa – where did you find this video? I went to News on the website, but couldn’t find it. Was just wondering what I should be doing differently to keep myself better informed. At any rate, thanks for posting.

[993cc]

It showed up on YouTube yesterday. The Almighty Algorithm sends me just about everything Aptera related, and I also subscribe to Aptera’s YouTube channel, so it showed up on my subscriptions page as soon as the video was launched.

It is odd that Aptera hasn’t posted the video on this site as well.

[JRWiley]

Thanks, Bob. I am now subscribed to “Aptera Motors” and “Aptera Owner’s Club”. That should help me stay up to date.

[jesthorbjorn]

From the home page, tap the drop down menu upper left and select “community”. Recent forum posts show up at the top, but if you scroll down a ways, you will see (I think it is) “recent social media posts”. The video showed up pretty promptly there.

I agree. Seems like it should be “News” too.

[JRWiley]

Thanks, Jesthorbjorn. As I’m not a social media user, I tend to overlook titles that include that phrase. I’ve learned my lesson and will now look there, as well as Aptera News and the YouTube subscriptions. I do think Aptera, however, should throw ALL Aptera public communications into News, at the very least, as well as social media and YouTube and any other place that is appropriate.

[kerbe2705]

Everything from Aptera seems to appear first on Facebook…

[Pistonboy]

Two things I found interesting are:

Item 1: Conforming electric power assist steering would be present.

Item 2: Stating autonomous driving would be one of their biggest points in the future. If course, autonomous driving has become somewhat of a vague term, meaning different things to different people.

[joshua-vance-vance]

I still wonder how involved they are with Tesla. FSD add on in a few years?

[Pistonboy]

I believe they are heavily involved with Tesla, and Tesla is letting them use some of their components.

[paul-schultz]

Any actual data to back this up? I would think for autonomous driving tech they would use either OpenPilot software modified for the Aptera or contract with one of the tier 2 automotive contractors to provide a solution.

[joshua-rosen]

I can’t imagine that any company would use OpenPilot when there are a number of far better funded choices. MobilEye, which is Intel, or Cruise, which is GM and Honda, Argo, which is Ford, or Tesla are far more likely. In any event it’s going to be years before their will be a true Level 5 system. They are offering driver’s assist, they haven’t said where they are getting that from but there are a number of off the shelf sources.

[paul-schultz]

Consumer Report rated OpenPilot ahead of the others as a level 2 ADAS. It is open source so cost is zero to use. Right now, there is no single vendor with a product that noticeably stands out. Comma.ai is in San Diego as is Aptera. It is an option and their proximity can help make a collaboration easier.

[kerbe2705]

In one of the webinars they mentioned that they are working with a Japanese developer to provide the SafetyPilot functionality. The overall UX interface design is from a Canadian firm, Crank Software. https://www.cranksoftware.com/press-release-crank-software-teams-with-aptera

[kerbe2705]

Actually, no: One of the Founders drives a Model 3 and they used parts from wrecked Model 3s to assemble the alpha prototypes – until they can find suppliers for parts of their own.

[Ronnie]

This one is about the solar system.

Aptera https://youtu.be/EVVLlJ7Tnuc

See 12:54 for Solar Cell (solution):
https://youtu.be/c6hs0-42Fxg

It’s a Canadian company to consider.
https://www.lightleafsolar.com/

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[993cc]

That Bean trailer in the link you gave, protecting a polycarbonate window from gravel and debris with a…solar panel? Hmmm.

Definitely something Aptera could look at.

Thanks for the links.

[alain-chuzel]

Would love to see how the Light Leaf Solar modules hold up to 80 MPH pebbles rather than fluffy snow balls…(see gif below). Try to carefully watch where “snowball” hits and is it really a snowball or just a lose bunch of snow?

[Ronnie]

The trailer thing is for some context and some background only.

Referring to the actual cells and curvature needed etc. Don’t lose that. Custom adaptation to Aptera spec.

Go to the solar panel manufacturer’s site https://www.lightleafsolar.com/custom

Check out the custom link above followed by the gleaf link.

[Roshiyu]

I wonder if I could custom order an oversized solar spoiler, and throw that onto the back of my aptera? XD

[alain-chuzel]

I can make you one.

XD

[llewellyn-evans]

Panels that curve in one direction are not a problem. I think he mentioned the curve being a compound curve ….. can’t just bend a flat cell into a compound curve without big strain. Hence the comment in the video about delamination and longevity. Perhaps smaller cells with a simple curve and cast the compound curve into the encapsulent to achieve the correct surface shape. Could help in some future Aptera product, after everything is up and running. Just spitballing.

[llewellyn-evans]

Pushing a compound curve into a cell may affect the band gap energy.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/sony-creates-curved-cmos-sensors-that-mimic-the-eye

[llewellyn-evans]

That means it can impact efficiency of the solar panel.

Could somebody who is a bigger nerd than me please post something? I can hear crickets.

[alain-chuzel]

SunCat Solar, LLC and others have been doing (and testing) lightweight/flex (or rigid) compound curved solar arrays for decades (primarily for solar race cars. See photo below of “junk cell” prototype. While there are some interesting tradeoffs with compound curves, I’ve never heard of the possible band gap energy problems.

[llewellyn-evans]

Hi Alain,

Thanks for the insight, it is a relief.

I guess the article does not apply because this the situation here is quite different. Thanks again!!????

[kerbe2705]

The language used seems so fluid: “modules”, “panels”, “cells”… At this stage it appears that individual cells are adhered to the body panels and then covered in a transparent protective coating. The animation suggests that individual cells will be replaceable but the speaker refers to upgradeable panels.

We know that the hood (bonnet), roof, hatch and tail-top are all discrete units that are attached to the underlying structure of the vehicle so would each of those (and the dashboard) be the mentioned “solar modules”? Would upgrading the solar system mean replacing those body panels and NOT replacing individual solar cells?

[alain-chuzel]

Great questions/comments Kenneth! It is hard to know what the intent is when the language is fluid. My best guess is they are likely to have replaceable panels (somewhat synonymous with module) rather than individual cells. The problem is that some panels could be rather big. I have been working on ideas for replaceable cells to keep replacement costs down. It’s tricky….

[kerbe2705]

There are only five body panels that contain solar cells: Hood, dashboard, roof, hatch and tail. Aside from the hatch the panels are composite shells so, while ungainly, they won’t be exceptionally heavy: Even the hatch is probably only a two-person lift.

In another post there’s an image of the cells in body panel mold: I’m guessing the intent is to “cast” the cells into the panel’s resin, making it monolithic. In all of the close-up photos of the vehicle there appear to be no seams around the individual cells.

The most cost effective repair (and haven’t we seen this with Tesla?) is to ship a complete replacement panel to the owner, along with detailed instructions for demounting the old panel and installing the new one.

I wonder if the six cells on the tail won’t manage to disappear from the production vehicle: They seem to be in a particularly vulnerable location and having to replace an entire panel for six cells… Perhaps the wider body of the beta prototypes will allow more cells to be mounted on the hood and roof, negating the need for the tail cells…

[alain-chuzel]

I wasn’t thinking of “body panels” so much as “solar panels”. I’m sorry to have only added to the confusion…

[trollfaced-hudagmail-com]

old forum had this plus a plant based transparent plastic that directed much of the light from the soaked by surface to its edges, so small solar panel at edges harvested light. There was different colors, and more colors in development at the time article that was linked to was written.

there was another liquid inside glass/plastic fully transparent solar panel being advertised for buildings, another blue tinted one.

[bmw-bloch]

This aptera video update was very disappointing to me. Everything can be bought off the shelve / is existing technology, except the solar cells integrated into the body.

In all their previous videos I gained the impression they had figured that out. But in this maker video it became clear they yet have to figure it out …

[alain-chuzel]

In this 30+ year experienced specialty solar module designer/fabricator’s mind, ditto……

[bmw-bloch]

As a possible solution they may want to look at these cells for automotive bodies developed by the Fraunhofer Institute and OPES Solutions:

https://www.electrive.com/2021/09/10/opes-fraunhofer-present-standardized-solar-module-for-vehicles/

[peter-jorgensen]

I took this update to mean that they had working cells – but they wanted to improve them more before rolling them out. Which is probably why Noir and Sol had different solar hood appearances – and none of them have the solar rear hatch yet. (We’ll see if Luna got a solar rear hatch).

In any case, I’m not super concerned about the solar as long as it doesn’t hold them up. I don’t mind taking delivery of my aptera with no solar if I have to but it’s a huge bonus to have it… The dash is probably not a compound curve and should be easy to work with – but the roof, hood, and hatch might cause more careful development to be needed.

Full moon is in 1 week – Hopefully we’ll see Luna then?

[henry-kitt]

Yes, I definitely want for the alpha Luna to have the full solar package, and I want them to leave it parked outside and run tests on its solar efficiency daily. I think, though, that they’ve basically completed their solar engineering for this iteration and just want to see which of their 3 or so resin options provides the best mix of efficiency and durability/protection.

[kerbe2705]

At one point I asked if there would be a non-solar option and was told that it was a “possible future consideration”. The “basic solar” package (dashboard, roof, tail) is supposed to generate up to 16 miles of range per day – I’m guessing the dashboard alone would be enough to run the flow-through ventilation system in hot weather.

[Pistonboy]

I don’t know how the solar mechanical lead guy is with solar cells, but he sure is chic.

[kerbe2705]

This one is about the body control system.

I especially like how Charlie speaks – both knowledgeably and reassuringly – about the nature of start-up vehicle design. https://youtu.be/6qdNhWIV-Yc

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[john-malcom]

Certainly can see the emphasis on engineering for efficiency and reliability. ????????

Space systems control uses the principle of distributed processing (Control close to the sensor not centralized). Improves reliability tremendously as wells as reducing the cost of materials and improving speed of assembly and test lowering the probability of defects that are hard to trace as he mentioned experiencing before. Good to learn from past experience and avoid potential issues on our Apterae. WOW a long run on sentence ????

[michael-rennick]

Aptera has released its latest Makers Series video. It’s fantastic. The focus is on the body/composite engineers who are helping to make the car a reality.

https://youtu.be/z9WtRNtyFew

Back in a previous role I led a team of composite engineers at a major airline. I really appreciate the work that is going on at Aptera and the challenges that Anusha and John must be facing. These two fit the mold (ha – composites joke there) of a good composites engineer. Creative and determined to get it right.

I wish more people understood the craft needed to get a good composites product. There are so many variables to keep track of and so many ways it can go wrong, but when it goes right they are amazing materials to work with.

[peter-jorgensen]

Former aerospace composites engineer here – Yep. Would love to see more of the molds and composite parts in the future!

[kerbe2705]

There are images of the molds used for the alpha prototypes floating around…

[peter-jorgensen]

I want to see the beta molds! I already have pictures on my computer of alpha molds. I’m impatient I guess.

These are from the Alphas:

[greg-mirich]

After watching the body in white video, I am a little confused. Will the basic body shell and other composite pieces be constructed with a white Gell coat?

[peter-jorgensen]

Probably no gelcoat – it adds weight. Most likely just like the alphas – with straight fiberglass and maybe sealant or pigment in the composite or some sort of coating like that. Here’s Sol:

[greg-mirich]

Pigment in the composite would be a logical choice.

[WesMan]

I’m really enjoying the “maker” series of videos. Can we get a maker video touching on some of the right to repair scenarios? I’m most interested in how we might access the battery for future upgrades. And how we might upgrade the solar cells. Is everything mostly plug and play? Or are there specifics future owners should know about?

Would someone be able to swap out an individual solar cell and calculate their own cost benefit analysis before upgrading the entire set of cells?

Could someone purchase the 400 mile range battery pack, and remove part of it for daily drives. Or add the next generation of battery packs onto the existing set (say 5 years down the road?)

[kerbe2705]

Considering that they haven’t yet decided how Aptera is going to be built and – in some cases – what materials are going to be used to build it, I’m guessing that the video you hope to see won’t be available for quite some time… ????