Aptera › Community › Aptera Discussions › Aptera to Germany / EU
Aptera to Germany / EUBiker replied 42 minutes ago 44 Members · 88 Replies
Aptera to Germany / EUBiker updated 42 minutes ago 44 Members · 88 Replies
Mike-MarsMemberMarch 23, 2023 at 2:35 am
The relevant category in the regulations is L5e-A. To be compliant with this, the vehicle has to shrink by about 10% in both width and length. Length is easy (just truncate the hatch a bit earlier), width is a bit tricky because the turning circle would be affected if you reduce the gap between the wheel pants and the body. There are also some minor things like the charge port, license plate housing, etc, but these are easier to deal with than the changes to the size. They do have someone contracted to look into EU homologation. Think 2025/2026 at the earliest.
A small amount of non-compliant vehicles are permitted each year (far fewer than needed to satisfy demand). The cost has been estimated at several thousand euros per vehicle, including transportation etc.
- This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Michael Marsden.
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 11:12 am
bitte kontaktiere uns doch einmal: firstname.lastname@example.org
please contact us: email@example.com
UnidentifiedDrivingObjectMemberApril 5, 2023 at 3:09 am
Well, related to Aptera in Germany. As I type this, I am right now here in Die Gläserne Manufaktur of VW Dresden. The Home of ID (where the VW ID3 is assembled)..and proudly wearing my Aptera Shirt!
philip-bMemberApril 11, 2023 at 10:51 pm
I hope Aptera will build a small factory in Europe like Tesla did in 2013 (Netherlands, Tilburg). Not a fully assembly rather than a final assembly line. So the most parts a final but it will be put together in Europe. It should save a lot of import tax and so on. Marge per vehicle should be easily increased. Are there any experts here?
Mike-MarsMemberApril 12, 2023 at 1:05 am
IMO when they design the EU variant, and open a secondary factory, I think it is likely that it will be located at/near CPC, likely in the form of a joint venture. They sort of hinted that earlier (the boss of CPC mentioned ‘CPC Aptera’ which I interpret as a JV). CPC are already assembling the bodies, and we know the motors from Elaphe are going to be delivered there before being sent onto Carlsbad.
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:44 am
Die sind hier.
Und in diesem Fall hilft unser Netzwerk. 🙂
They are here.
And in this case our network is the key to success 🙂
benoit-donnetteMemberApril 16, 2023 at 12:47 am
I wonder how close we’re getting to the idea of a crowd-funded) company who would deal with the EU registration (provided no modification is necessary, otherwise the cause is lost before the battle is started) in exchange of say, some exclusivity in delivering the EU COC ?
david-zachariasMemberApril 23, 2023 at 7:18 am
I think about switching to the Launch Edition, but I live in Germany.
Will the Launch Edition be shipped to Germany or do I have to import it by myself? 🤔
BigSkyMemberApril 23, 2023 at 7:59 am
We all need to go get them ourselves
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:46 am
wir können das gemeinsam machen. firstname.lastname@example.org
we can do this together. email@example.com
david-zachariasMemberApril 23, 2023 at 8:59 am
In this case, I will wait, until the vehicle becomes officially available in Germany 🙂
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:49 am
Kontaktieren Sie uns: firstname.lastname@example.org
Contact us: email@example.com
joshua-rosenMemberApril 23, 2023 at 9:31 am
You’ll need to wait for an EU spec version unless you want to replace the charging system yourself. They are using the Tesla connector in the US which is great in North America, useless elsewhere. The available CCS adapter for Tesla’s is CCS1 to Tesla, you use CCS2, for AC there is a J1772 to Tesla adapter, the EU uses Type 2 not J1772.
KnixMemberMay 26, 2023 at 2:40 pm
Unless I’m mistaken, J1772 is what is called Type 1 here in Europe. Cables connecting a Type 2 EVSE with Type 1 cars, like Nissan Leaf are readily available in Europe, so a J1772 to NACS adapter should make a US-spec Aptera just as easy to AC-charge as a Leaf.
DC charging would be harder though, since no NACS to CCS2 adapter is available as far as I know.
US Apteras in Europe should be fine for everyday driving (assuming you manage to get them road legal), though their road tripping capabilities would be limited.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by Knix.
Mike-MarsMemberMay 26, 2023 at 3:22 pm
> DC charging would be harder though, since no NACS to CCS2 adapter is available as far as I know.
NACS is basically CCS but with a different physical connector, so it should be possible to implement without needing to have any logic embedded into the adaptor. Adaptors don’t exist yet because NACS is still too new, but they’ll turn up quite quickly.
KnixMemberMay 30, 2023 at 4:25 am
As you said, a NACS to CCS2 adapter propably wouldn’t be that difficult to make. The market would be very small though, since it would probably only be useful for EV’s privately imported from North America to Europe. I’m not sure any company can come up with a viable business case to develop one. EV’s imported commercially (in volume) to the EU would need Type 2/CCS2-connector to be legal to sell.
Mike-MarsMemberMay 30, 2023 at 5:03 am
Agreed that it’s pretty niche, but several Tesla – CCS2 adapters already exist on the market. It just needs an updated version for NACS instead of the older design.
Thomas.GermanyMemberMay 1, 2023 at 3:39 am
ich bin neu hier und würde auch gerne einen Aptera reservieren, wenn ich den nach Deutschland importieren hier fahren kann.
Kann vielleicht bitte jemand zusammenfassen, wie der Status bzgl. einer möglichen Betriebserlaubnis in D ist? Welche Komponenten stellen ein Problem dar (Scheinwerfer?, Rückleuchten?, Blinker?, Nebelschlussleuchten?, Spiegel?, Reifen?, Nummernschild?, …) und wie sehen mögliche Lösungsansätze aus?
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Thomas Hansch.
Mike-MarsMemberMay 1, 2023 at 5:39 am
It depends if you are importing it as a one-off, or as a homologated vehicle.
For a vehicle homologated under the L5e-A regulations:
* Overall width needs to shrink from 2.2M to 2.0M
* Overall length needs to shrink from 4.5M to 4M
* Charging port needs to change from NACS to CCS2
* Rear plate needs to be slightly bigger, but no front plate is required
There are other changes required too, but that is trivial compared to having to change the vehicle dimensions. I believe that Aptera has a consultant working on the changes required for homologation. Once it is homologated, then Aptera will probably start producing and selling the vehicle from inside the EU (my guess it that the final-assembly factory is likely to be at or near CPC in Modena, Italy).
If you are importing it as a one-off, then only a small number of vehicles are allowed each year. My understanding is that if you import it this way via any EU country, then it is OK for any other EU country? I do not know about the technical requirements for a vehicle imported this way, but there will be an in-depth inspection, and a large fee. There is probably more information elsewhere in this thread.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Michael Marsden.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Michael Marsden.
curtis-cibinelMemberMay 4, 2023 at 1:55 pm
Making this level of changes will be difficult and expensive; I wonder if they are still hoping lobbying will get them out of doing them.. At a minimum they will need to replace most of the molds, make changes to the front suspension, shorten the hatch and reshape nose shape. To keep the same interior, battery and doors will require some creative thinking but that is pretty essential to avoid replacing too many components. To minimize part charges they could potentially notch the body to receive the backend of the wheel pants but this looks quite odd and hurts aerodynamics; (this is a concept I did several months ago)
todd-williamsMemberMay 5, 2023 at 1:04 pm
I think that Aptera could put inserts in the dies to shorten the tail. More importantly, I think a lot of the width issue could be solved if the wheel covers stayed straight while the wheels turned. Might not quite be enough though? 🤷♂️
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:41 am
Daran arbeiten wir.
That’s what we’re working on.
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 11:03 am
* Die hintere Platte muss etwas größer sein, aber eine vordere Platte ist nicht erforderlich.—–
Thema “Unterfahrschutz” welche Informationen hast Du da?
Danke für die Info.
* Rear plate needs to be slightly bigger, but no front plate is required
Topic “underride protection” what information do you have there?
Thanks for infos,
Mike-MarsMemberMay 30, 2023 at 1:40 am
Just to be clear, I don’t know anything beyond what I’ve read on the various forums, and from reading the L5e-A regulations. I’m not an expert, simply someone who wants the Aptera very much 🙂 And for that to happen, it needs to pass homologation.
Purely my opinion, but I think that the EU will be a much bigger market for the Aptera than the USA, once homologation is sorted out. EU has a bigger focus on efficiency, has higher energy costs, and is not obsessed with huge trucks and SUVs.
bojan-majdandzicMemberMay 4, 2023 at 1:12 pm
So Aptera homologation for Europe will be first in Switzerland.
jens-bernhardMemberMay 15, 2023 at 10:41 pm
I’m wondering about the head lights being not far enough outside. Don’t they have to be max. 40 cm away from the most outside point of the body? And do the wheel covering count as body in this case?
mrstMemberMay 16, 2023 at 1:05 am
Like most issues, I think this is depending on the vehicle class Aptera will fall into.
If it is considered something similar to a motorbike, the headlight in the middle of the vehicle is somewhat correct.
But you are absolutely right in the point that the regulation in the EU tries to achieve is, that the vehicle dimensions of every vehicle can be identified by the headlights at night so one knows what width of object is approaching at night.
So it could be an issue potentially, if the auxiliary lights on the sides don’t fulfill these requirements I think.
glenn-zajicMemberMay 16, 2023 at 8:38 am
The original location for the headlights was logical and intelligent. They had to be moved to conform with illogical standards which should not have been applied to this vehicle.
ElzoMemberMay 18, 2023 at 5:58 am
Did I miss something crucially important? Should the Launch Edition also be picked up in Carlsbad. My thought was that only the first two thousand numbered “Accelerator” versions were to be picked up directly from the factory in Carlsbad?
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by Elzo Stubbe. Reason: typing error
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
joshua-rosenMemberMay 18, 2023 at 6:17 am
The Launch Edition is US spec, it’s unusable in Europe. It uses the NACS connector which is North American only, doubtful that you could find a CCS2 to NACS adapter or a Type 2 to NACS adapter so you would have no way of charging it. Don’t know if it would even be legal to import a car that hasn’t been homologated to EU standards. By the time they have an EU spec version they will be well past the LE stage.
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:35 am
“It uses the NACS connector which is North American only,”
you can buy/use adapters from NACS to CCS.
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:38 am
An der legalisierung arbeiten wir. Und Du kannst sicher sein, dass Deutschland der richtige Ort für die Weiterentwicklung der individualen KFZ-Mobilität ist: WIR (in Deutschland) haben sie erfunden 😉
We are working on legalization. And you can be sure that Germany is the right place for the further development of individual vehicle mobility: WE invented it 😉
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 11:00 am
Habe ich etwas übersehen?
Did I miss something?
curtis-cibinelMemberMay 26, 2023 at 3:33 pm
They have said before that EU will use CCS2 rarely adopted “DC-Low”; I think it was in the investor call in january. This is the same size / shape as the AC only Mennekes connector (european equivalent of the J1772) but is theoretically capable of DC. This makes it roughly the same size of the NACS connector but it is not directly usable for DC. The problem is that this connector is not widely used by DCFC systems in europe which use the hair dryer sized CCS2 “DC-High” connector (the one with the bottom DC pins). An adapter will be needed for all european DCFC usage.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by Curtis Cibinel.
joshua-rosenMemberMay 30, 2023 at 6:12 am
I’m sure they will reconsider the DC low decision before they have an EU version. They still don’t have a timeline for the first US deliveries, the EU won’t be for a couple of years after that, plenty of time to get it right. I’d bet that they’ll find a way to put in a CCS2 connector for the EU, anything else is a non-starter. Remember they briefly entertained the idea of AC only on LE, there was a huge firestorm ignited by that announcement and they rescinded it in about two days. There is no way they will ship an EU version that cant DC charge.
ROMADMemberMay 18, 2023 at 7:14 am
It is as Joshua said for EU customers. But for North American customers, anyone may opt to pick up their Aptera in Carlsbad, CA. I live in Arizona and am about 400 miles from Carlsbad so I will probably go there to pick mine up (assuming I live long enough).
As an aside for anyone thinking about visiting Carlsbad, it is also the location for “Legoland USA”.
EV-CatMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:32 am
Es geht weiter!
Wenn der Zeitplan gehalten werden kann, wird Ende 2023 das erste Fahrzeug in Deutschland dem TÜV zur Vorprüfung vorgestellt werden.
Wer informiert bleiben will bitte in die Mailingliste eintragen lassen: firstname.lastname@example.org
Things are moving forward!
If the schedule can be kept, the first vehicle in Germany will be presented to the TÜV for preliminary testing at the end of 2023.
Who wants to stay informed please subscribe to the mailing list: email@example.com
joris-dreilingMemberMay 24, 2023 at 10:42 am
Danke für die erfreuliche Nachricht. Habe die Mail schon rausgeschickt, an die angebene Mail Adresse.
EV-CatMemberMay 29, 2023 at 2:54 am
Wir haben heute ein Forum zur Bündelung unserer Kompetenzen in Europa gestartet. Wir sind sicher, dass wir Aptera so optimal beim “going EU” unterstützen können.
Wer aktuell informiert bleiben möchte – oder sein Wissen einbringen will – kann sich dort kostenfrei registrieren.
Zum EU Forum: http://www.aptera.solar
Today we have launched a forum to pool our competences in Europe. We are confident that this will enable us to provide Aptera with the best possible support for “going EU”.
If you want to stay informed – or contribute your knowledge – you can register there free of charge.
To the EU Forum: http://www.aptera.solar
Ian_ThompsonMemberMay 26, 2023 at 12:39 pm
Didn’t Chris say in the recent update video that Aptera was going for Swiss homologation first, then other markets in Europe after (EU/EEA/UK)? Presumably it is easier to go for this route. Hopefully the work at CPC will allow body pressings by mid/late summer 2023, then Delta prototypes in Autumn, so testing can begin.
I’m hoping that the first EU facility will go next to CPC in Modena, and that the EU-homologated version will be ready to roll out to customers by early to mid 2025.
BikerModeratorJune 7, 2023 at 5:32 am
For those that haven’t seen it, here’s the video Steve from the AOC YouTube channel did about the subject: