Aptera Wheel Cover/Pants info and issues

[ray-holan]

Raj, thanks for putting this video together. I myself wasn’t overly concerned with the shake rattle and roll of the wheel covers on the Alpha Aptera, but others were and this video is reassuring.

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

My friend who is a retired mechanical engineer, noted the amount of flex and wobble in what he called “wheel pants” said they were similar to the ones on his fathers jodell 11 plane , said that on takeoff and landing they did the same amount of flexing and eventually would explode and take out a fabric wing very easily.

Sure no fabric wings here. But damage to the body or another vehicle is possible.

I’m glad they are sorted out ????

[len]

Thanks for this Raj!

Yes the Aptera team has answered this in the forum a few times. Basically:

????Only the Alpha

???? Front wheel covers ( aka pants, fairings, cowlings) fully supported yet

????Upcoming beta > development vehicle will see an inner liner that bolts to the wheel for added stability but…

Because of the physics of the design there will always be a slight shake

BTW

We haven’t seen the adjacent front arms aero covers yet, etc…

I had shared, in an old thread, a video of the old Chrysler Plymouth Prowler, a past roadster style vehicle which had exposed wheels with short fenders that covered just the top of those expose front wheels. They also had a slight shake in the production vehicles’ front wheel fenders

IMHO Development vehicles are “ Franken- vehicles”, until they get to “production intent”.

Although Sol is amazing good looking ,at the first ( Alpha) stage. I have see and been driven in the same one Jay drove.

They have to patch together a viable test vehicle , so people could see1) That Aptera’s renderings were amazingly close to the build 2) this unique car is safe enough, even at the alpha stage, to get real data with all these drives we witness.

Bring on gamma!???? Any color will do! ???? with more ???? bells and whistles?!

I digress a bit, but…

I can’t wait to see and hear from of the early reservation holders “ I have connected with” …. that are electrical engineers and EV owners… One in paticular, who is been in electrics for twenty years promoting EV, starting many EV clubs/ chapters…report his first hand experiences with his Aptera ( a Paradigm Edition) !

And being AZ based….Let the solar zone eight environment … “ Tell the Never Charge possibility”

He has been known to be the EV hyper-mile champ, exceeding many EPA EV ranges on EVs he has driven…so “ this should be interesting!

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

How much ground clearance will the wheel covers have ?

Again my friend noted his Honda fit has a chin spoiler that is 6” off the ground and he drags it on every driveway, crib etc, he thought the wheel covers would be nothing more than fancy curb feelers.

I’m more worried about 3” or snow leaving me high and dry/cold lol

I figure if need be I’ll put some chrome or sticky molding on them unless they are Kevlar. Lol

[curtis-cibinel]

Obviously nothing is final but I believe they said 5 inches was normal and 7 inches with the offroad kit. The body was 9 inches but it might be slightly lower as im not sure if this number was alpha or beta and beta seems to have lowered this. Functionally because the lowest points are right at the wheels I wouldn’t expect much issue on hills or driveways. I live in BC and drive to the ski hill regularly and have no concerns (especially with AWD and software torque vectoring)

[nicholas-maskell]

Are such large wheel guards necessary? Are they more aerodynamic? They seem too low to the ground personally and too flared I’d rather have half size wheel guards or none at all. Could be a real problem off road or on country tracks. This should be a go anywhere vehicle IMO.

[peter-jorgensen]

Agreed – Yes they are more aerodynamic. Exposed wheels are aerodynamic suicide. That’s why airplanes often have wheel pants. I’m planning on getting the offroad skirts since I want this to go anywhere a Subaru would.

[paul-kirchner]

Somebody must have taught my wife that to park close to a curb is good and to park even closer just has to be even more gooder! We have a Fiat 500 and I still have replaced so many tires from her puncturing the sidewall somehow.

I’m hoping that there can be the equivalent of a back up sensor on the tire shrouds to let her know, no to shout at her, that she does not need to get any closer to the curb.

[JRWiley]

I messaged Aptera regarding our concerns about damaging the wheel pants one way or another. Audra’s reply:

“We are designing with this concern in mind, for Aptera to require very minimal repairs, and protect against outside damage as best as we can.

It is worth noting that the top of the wheel pant is at roughly the height of most passenger car headlights! On top of that, it has a light unit & reflector on it.”

[paul-kirchner]

I remember those “scrapers’ from my dad’s cars. I was obsessed over the appearance of my cars forever, and with my 20 year Audi (I just gave it away to my son-in-law to use as a track car)I may have scraped the rims 3-4 times in that period. Went out of my way not to get too close to a curb.

Yes, with those wheels hanging out like they do, they are ripe for a run in with all sorts of things. That wire scraper might be the ticket if they don’t have electronic warning chimes.

[Lou]

All things considered, seems like sensors would be most practical – similar to fore and aft approach warning beeps

[Pistonboy]

https://youtu.be/WgRF_O4ilhM

This is a great video. This guy sounds serious and seasoned.

[steven-g-bueche]

Thank you for posting this! Was this video posted on the interviewers UTube channel?

This is the kind of video and information us geek/gear heads/technical types want to see. There were so many more questions I wanted to yell at the screen that this interviewer did not ask. He comes across as a non wrench guy who seems a bit unprepared for his mission.

The engineer talks like all engineers do (lol) but he does give us loads of information. If I knew his name, I’d like to thank him for it.

I think it might also help to distinguish the difference between dirt roads and rock climbing when they talk of Off Road capabilities. I personally don’t see the Aptera doing more than dirt roads with a few rocks but I drive a 4×4 Jeep Cherokee from 96.

I like the concept of removable front and rear pieces for the wheel Pants. I don’t deal with curbs down in Georgia but, I understand the concern coming from an ex-city boy. I think off roaders would simply remove the wheel pants for any off road adventures and avoid the possibilities of damage. I also appreciate his explanation of snow accumulation and the effects it either will or will not have on tire performance and its removal. The addition of the center hub aliment for the outer shirt/pant is also a clever idea for pant stability.

Not to keen on a no tool removal pins for the skirt as every car guy may know that for a avoidance of rattles a torqued fastener is best.

Keep up the good work Aptera!

Now if we could get one of our esteemed community engineers to interview these folks,…

[Pistonboy]

The wheelpants have lights on the front and top of them.

I would like to have lights running down the back of them too.

I am frequently passed by people who do not get over completely into the other lane. I fear they will be busy looking at the rest of the vehicle, not notice the front wheel sticking out, and hit the front wheels.

At least have a bright LED light molded into the top light, facing backwards. It could be integrated into the present lights with no problem.

[kerbe2705]

Do other drivers frequently move into your lane and side-swipe your vehicle? There’s so much FUD about Aptera’s front wheels: When you view the vehicle from above you can see that the wheels don’t protrude an extravagant distance from the widest portion of the body.

Having lights on the rear of the wheel pants would place them in full view of the driver: I’m guessing that having moving lights in my field of vision (remember, these lights would bounce and turn with the wheels, not with the body of the vehicle) would be somewhat distracting…

[Pistonboy]

While no one has side-swiped my vehicle yet, they do frequently pass with part of their vehicle still in my lane. The smaller the vehicle, the less they move over completely into the other lane. Just ask motorcycle riders.

I fear they will judge the width of the vehicle by the most obvious part which is the body. I fear they will not notice the less obvious parts, they wheelpants.

[curtis-cibinel]

Great interview. So much good technical information.

I’m still unclear why the waste heat wont melt the snow easily. I calculated 150-300 watts of heat per wheel (90-95% efficiency) if driving at 60mph / 100 kph with the FWD (6000 watts total = 100 wh/mile). With how enclosed it is this should melt off the snow any time you stop. The wheel motor / wheel are heavy hunks of metal which will hold this heat. Maybe it wont overcome R losses at -40 C/F but at -5 to -10C (23-14F) it should be plenty

[paul-schultz]

In the video the engineer mentions the wheel working “like a lathe” in that it will continue to carve out its space as any snow builds up in the inner portion of the wheel well/pant. What they don’t mention is the issue, albeit less common, of snow/ice building up on the inner cavity of the wheel itself. This can happen if snow sprays up into this cavity during driving. When you park it slides to the bottom of the inside wheel cavity, freezes, and leads to your wheel feeling grossly imbalanced when you subsequently go for a drive. When this has happened with our vehicles I have been able to break this free with some machinations. To remove this snow/ice on the Aptera I would think it would require the removal of the wheel pant…. something I would want to avoid in winter weather if possible. I wonder if Aptera has done any simulations for snow/ice build-up on the inner wheel cavity?

[steven-g-bueche]

Good Morning Paul. If there’s that much snow on the ground I would think your speeds are low enough that you wouldn’t need the wheel pant on at all and avoid the issue since aerodynamics and efficiency isn’t an issue. I know some states have issue with un-fendered wheels so this may not be possible. If you look at the motor companies site you’ll see they’ve tested this issue pretty extensively. So I don’t think it’s an issue. Like Steve says in the video, clay is a bigger concern. I think mud could be easily removed with a hose attachment similar to a mower deck that allows for easy grass clean out. Besides these issues you speak of are the same for any wheel.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  Steven G. Bueche.

[glenn-zajic]

Thank you…thank you… thank you!!! Steve did a fine job, as usual, with this interview. But Aptera did an even better job with their wobbly wheel pants solutions. I must say I was more than a little concerned after the Leno drive with this issue. I was in fear of them putting out something that seemed like a piece of you know what. I guess I should have known better! Way to go Aptera!!

[robert-engelhart]

Would love to have a Fender option like the Prowler. I know this will hurt the range exposing the tire, but honestly for my use that would be fine. Range isn’t an issue for us the car will never be driven more than say 30 miles from home, it will be a city commuter fun car. I am sure someone will design a fender aftermarket if and when these come to market.

[fanfare-100]

Why not a telescoping wheel skirt that can be manually raised and lowered at will dependent upon which if the owner wishes to take their Aptera off-roading. ;-D

[llewellyn-evans]

How about adding a set of mounting holes so you can mount the wheel pants in the standard position or the higher off-road position.

[Pragmatic_to_a_Fault]

The prowler didn’t have pants. It has fenders like a trailer or tractor

[steven-g-bueche]

Even though it will hurt the aerodynamics of the Aptera, I’d like to see the option of those Prowler type fenders on it.

[KnightlyJay]

Hey folks,

I was just watching the video about the improved wheel pants, lol. I live in the Hudson Valley NY, and our snow accumulation isn’t Buffalo standard, but is still pretty hefty. As I looked at the wheel pants, I wondered about snow and ice build up inside of them. The fenders on my Passat wagon would get pretty full during the 90 round trip taking my kid to school, so this concerns me a bit. What are everyone’s thoughts? I’m sorry if this has been answered. I searched, but most of the questions have been about handling.

[Fran]

John, I live in Hudson Falls, NY and I am not concerned about snow build up. First of all any day that the snow is coming down faster than the plows can keep it under six inches, is quite rare. If it gets to the point that there is build up inside the wheel pants, go over a few bumps and it might break it loose. If not, just stop and use the handle of your scrapper and dig it out. Or go to the car wash and use the hot water self serve pressure wash to clean it out. The only problem I would expect is if you drive to work and don’t clean out the build-up under the pants, and during the day it melts enough to fall down onto the tire and then freezes to the tire. That would be a learning experience, to teach you to clean out the build-up before going in to work. I would expect this to happen about once every ten years.

[Phil]

I’m just north of Chicago and I’m not concerned either. To add to what Francis said, the motors in each of the wheel hubs do generate some heat and that could work to minimize snow and ice build up. If you do get a Buffalo type snow fall, you could also snap the wheel pants off, but this is definitely a last resort idea. Only if it’s say over 2 feet deep and your roads haven’t been plowed yet and you need to get somewhere. Just keep it under 30 mph and efficiency shouldn’t be impacted too much. Since the Aptera is legally considered to be a motorcycle, it should be legal to drive without wheel pants (aka-fenders) in most places. Many 2 wheel motorcycles already are driven without fenders.

[kerbe2705]

@John Reeder – This video? If you look at 7:57 you’ll see that there’s precious little space between the tire and the liner so there’s almost nowhere for show or ice to accumulate. Remember that, unlike an automobile’s wheels, Aptera’s wheels don’t steer or travel vertically within the wheel pants: The wheel pants are attached to the wheel so there’s no need for extra space to allow for wheel movement inside a traditional “wheel well”. https://youtu.be/WgRF_O4ilhM

[kimboly]

I wonder why the wheelpants/spats don’t have the same profile as the car body. Since the car body is close to the ideal aero shape, accounting for ground effects turbulence, why then aren’t the pants/spats the same shape?

[kerbe2705]

@Kimberly Wilson – because they serve a different purpose and because they interact with the airflow around the body. If the shapes were identical they’d generate a great deal of turbulence.

[paul-schultz]

We all know that someone always can end up leaning against their vehicle when standing next to it and talking to a friend. This got me to thinking. Sometimes people have hopped up and sat on the hood or trunk of a car as a place to sit. Sometimes this could even lead to a dent from the weight.

So, it made me wonder… How well will the wheel covers handle leaning and/or sitting from a person? They are at the right height to be tempting for someone to put their full weight onto them. Has Aptera mentioned anything in this area??