Are We Making the Same Mistakes?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Are We Making the Same Mistakes?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Are We Making the Same Mistakes?

  • Are We Making the Same Mistakes?

     Elzo Stubbe updated 3 months, 3 weeks ago 12 Members · 25 Posts
  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    March 2, 2022 at 11:14 am

    Thought provoking article from a mainstream automotive publication:

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39270970/hummer-ev-proves-were-making-all-the-same-mistakes-again/

  • Elzo Stubbe

    Member
    March 2, 2022 at 11:54 am

    As a man of certain principles there are things in this world that I really can not appreciate. This hummer is one of them………..

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      March 2, 2022 at 2:06 pm

      I’m with you, Elzo. Do we really need a 9,000 lb. EV? No.

    • V Pilot

      Member
      March 2, 2022 at 2:09 pm

      Do we need $170,000 luxury EV’s also? I don’t think so

      • Konijnerd the Great

        Member
        March 5, 2022 at 4:15 am

        in my opinion the Aptera is also a luxury EV with the level 2 autopilot, big screen(s?), fast acceleration and design. The price is simply destructive towards other company’s, if they at least can get the “car” legal.

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    March 2, 2022 at 2:10 pm

    Here’s a good quote from the article:

    “The good stuff, the real stuff, requires you to abandon the idea that more is necessary. Because while the world we’ve constructed wants to sell you something. Forever. But a drive in a Miata, a campfire with friends, a meal cooked at home, or a walk in the woods will remind you of the real truth, that happiness is about what happens when you peel away excess. Until we learn that, we’re doomed to decadence.”

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    March 2, 2022 at 6:30 pm

    2 seater makes more sense long term, assuming effiency is so good that 2nd 2 seaters initial cost is nothing lon term factoring in running costs given most the time more than 1 or 2 seats and only little storage space is ever used, especially when removable roof storage is a thing(maybe even thermally insulated to some extent) . one 2 seater can follow the other with driver in it, emulating a 4 seater for less common times when such is used. it will make even more sense in a future where ride sharing increases, population and services more concentrated near each other, amazon delivery service type things increase, family unit becomes less common so people live in short term relationships more often than it used to be, so less desire to travel together. this stuff is already happening.

  • Joel Smith

    Member
    March 2, 2022 at 6:35 pm

    Of course! Isn’t it obvious! I am just glad to see folks other than me noticing.

    When I got my current, now 7 years old EV, I figured the tech was advancing rapidly enough that it would only be a handful of years before I could get something a lot better. Granted the full charge ranges have multiplied as expected but the range per kWh has gotten no better, and in many cases worse. Stuffing ever larger batteries in ever larger vehicles is not what I had in mind at all.

    Then Aptera burst onto the scene. Hope is restored. I am so ready to get behind that wheel and realize that earlier expectation.

    • Philip Raymond

      Member
      March 2, 2022 at 6:56 pm

      Great article from R & T, but if you read the comments to R & T below the article, you realize just how many truly ignorant petrol heads need to be convinced that EV’s can be efficient. We who know this, need to be patient and inform whenever possible. It will be done, but it troubles me to think how long it might take.

      • Ray Holan

        Moderator
        March 3, 2022 at 5:16 am

        I hear you, Philip. I can speak as a gearhead as well as an Aptera fan. Performance means fast and loud to my gearhead friends. Even a high power-to-weight ratio seems to escape their notice as a desirable metric. It’s all about 0-60 and the highest HP number. Whenever the phrase “What’ll it do?” comes up, the expected response is in terms of speed, not efficiency. I do think change is coming albeit glacier slow.

        • Lou Verner

          Member
          March 3, 2022 at 5:43 am

          Ray, I’m guessing you’ll appreciate this: As an ecologist and definitely non-gearhead, I’ve often wondered if those (as far as I’ve discerned, always guys) who choose to buy monster trucks and take every opportunity to rev their obnoxiously loud smoke-belching behemoths as they screech away from every stop, are suffering from too much or too little T. My late wife, who was not shy to express her opinion on the matter, would roll down her passenger side window if we happened to stop next to such a vehicle and sweetly proclaim, “Nice truck! Sorry about your small P- – – s!”

          • V Pilot

            Member
            March 3, 2022 at 6:19 am

            ☝🤣

          • Ray Holan

            Moderator
            March 3, 2022 at 6:42 am

            Got a good laugh out of your late wife’s stoplight habit, Lou. Nothing like speaking your mind at a stoplight;)😄

            • Lou Verner

              Member
              March 3, 2022 at 6:49 am

              True that, but not sure she’d be so quick to speak her mind in today’s polarized climate!

      • Joel Smith

        Member
        March 3, 2022 at 11:11 am

        The problem with dinosaurs is that the meteor required to wipe them out will likely take most of the rest of us out too.

  • George Hughes

    Member
    March 3, 2022 at 10:03 am

    We ought to get together and send a `3-D model Aptera to the Mack Hogan and smooze him a bit. It is obvious to me at least he understands the challenge is ‘our wisdom vs. our unfettered wants.’

    Let me say that while I understand the imperative for efficiency, our embrace of the ICE has skewed our expectations widely.

    Consider for instance the mpg of a 42 eMPG means it is more than competitive with these PHEVs

    2022 Lexus UX 250h 2.0 L, 4 cyl, Automatic (AV-S6), Regular Gasoline 42 MPG combined.2022 Ford Escape FWD HEV 2.5 L, 4 cyl, Automatic (variable gear ratios), Regular Gasoline 41 MPG combined.2022 Ford Escape AWD HEV 2.5 L, 4 cyl, Automatic (variable gear ratios), Regular Gasoline40 MPG combined.2022 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid AWD 2.5 L, 4 cyl, Automatic (AV-S6), Regular Gasoline 40 MPG combined.2022 Lexus UX 250h AWD 2.0 L, 4 cyl, Automatic (AV-S6), Regular Gasoline 39 MPG combined.

    Certainly the RAV 4, Lexus or even Escape are not known for being anything but advanced mainstream SUVs.

    Of course the point is that when making a 20-mile one-way commute sitting alone in ANY SUV is an exercise in overkill. You don’t need a 4500 lb vehicle to carry one person that distance although if you regularly transport ed six or seven people in a car pool, that would be considered efficient.

    And while the 42 mpge Hummer coming in at 9000lbs is grossly excessive for the task of a 20 mile single-occupant commute, by focusing on it and giving the RAV4 a bye is just hypocritical.

    Still, I think Mr. Hogan ought to be engaged.

    BTW, I couldn’t find the customer comments on Road and Track. Does one need to subscribe to see those?

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      March 3, 2022 at 11:14 am

      Great idea, George. I emailed Kayleigh Venne, who is in charge of Aptera PR about following up with Mack Hogan.

      Re: not seeing the comments at end of the R&T article online, apparently an R&T subscription is required. I cannot see the comments either.

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    March 3, 2022 at 12:06 pm

    I did subscribe to R&T a few months ago, when they did another article that featured Aptera, among other in-the-future vehicles. That’s why I saw the comments, I didn’t think a paywall would block the comments, now I know. Suffice it to say, you didn’t miss much.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    March 4, 2022 at 10:24 pm

    Do we really need to drive the cost of oil above $120 a barrel to force people to buy EVs ????

    🇺🇦

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      March 5, 2022 at 12:12 am

      The problem with most evs is supply, price and range. Aptera does very well on this but with all prices rising most can’t can’t afford any new vehicles let alone evs.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    March 4, 2022 at 10:34 pm

    Pat, you’re right. It may take a while, but when they see how little we pay in maintenance and travel costs, they will finally realize they don’t need to exceed their budget to get something fun to drive and to go long distances.

    As an automotive technician I was very impressed with how little it cost to go from a standard gas vehicle to a hybrid. The maintenance was such a difference and so much less expensive. If we get rid of the ice and go all electric or something similar, maintenance will be even less expensive with no oils or filters (air and oil) to change. Depending on your regeneration rate you might not change brake pads until 120,000 miles.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    March 10, 2022 at 3:35 pm

    The biggest issue is infrastructure… it’s simply not in place to support a shift to full EV changeover nationwide… let alone world wide.

    Once again this is a crushing tax on the lower and middle class.

    Now. You may think that once we go from ice to EV. That it’s over …. Wrong…. Ziploc baggies went from $3.50 a box to over $8.50 locally …. Why ? They are made with the same now $130 a barrel oil…

    It’s the tax that keeps on taxing

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