Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Batteries

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Batteries

  • Batteries

  • Tony Mainstone

    August 14, 2021 at 11:48 pm

    Hi There,

    Just wondering whether Aptera is in a position to provide an update regarding the battery technology to be used. I’m aware of some developments with graphene aluminum-ion battery technology, and was wondering whether it might be suitable for Aptera. The claim is that they charge up to 60 times faster than the best lithium-ion cells and hold three time the energy of the best aluminum-based cells. Plus, they are claimed to be more sustainable and easier to recycle, due to the stable base materials used in the manufacture of the batteries.


  • Dean McManis

    August 15, 2021 at 12:51 am

    There are so many different battery designs and chemistries being announced by universities. But as always, the step from R&D to mass production is HUGE. And often it is simply not possible to scale up production, especially at a competitive price.

  • Charles Overbeck

    August 15, 2021 at 12:03 pm

    I would like to hear more about the Batteries they are planning to use in Aptera Vehicles. We have to be getting more info as Beta vehicles are being produced & assembled and they must be designing and utilizing production intent Battery supplies. They are obviously not producing their own batteries and have strict power and weight requirements in order to make their stated range goals. I feel like it is overdue time to have a deep-dive on Battery and Battery Management system they will be utilizing. Any chance Munro & Associates will be helping them out as both the Low Voltage and High Voltage control systems has been a big point of issue with a lot of EV vendors even if the outside of the cars do look good.

    • John Malcom

      August 16, 2021 at 9:34 am

      Sarah has indicated that there will be a special session on batteries. Aptera must have read your mind!

  • Paul Evans

    August 16, 2021 at 2:33 pm

    I don’t want Aptera to wait for two years to see whether the technology works! They should only put together a small team to monitor battery technology alternatives after they’re delivering cars and have ramped up manufacturing to demonstrate they’re on course to achieving a rate of 10K units per year. But I can be impatient sometimes.

    • George Hughes

      August 17, 2021 at 4:03 pm

      I think that pretty much any choice in battery chemistry available today in the mainstream will work.

      It may be they will source the cells in each pack (25kw, 40kw, 60kw and 100kw) with different cells possibly from different manufacturers … or not.

      If not, the reality of the moment is they are a small prospective manufacturer seeking a specific supply from a biggie like Panasonic, LG or ?? and are probably playing one against another as best as they can to get the best price.

      But if they are going to open source batteries, we, as consumers, may welcome that kind of multi-sourcing on the battery pack because that will mean the BMS, controller, cooling, motors, etc. will not be battery-brand, but rather voltage specific. This approach fits with the right to repair ethic adopted by Aptera and means that you may, some time in the future, be able to fit a 2,500 mile battery in the space.

      • John Malcom

        August 19, 2021 at 11:19 am

        Paul, I think we should leave engineering decisions to the engineers and management at Aptera. They have done a remarkable job to date and will continue to do so. As enthusiasts we have neither the technical expertise or insight into there plans or methodology to challenge their approach.

        We need to be a little patient. They have been exceptional about keeping us informed about their revolutionary progress

        • Fanfare 100

          August 19, 2021 at 11:52 am

          As I do agree that we should leave engineering decisions to engineers, I also believe that any good engineer (I myself being one of them) would be receptive to good ideas, especially from the community I serve to please. I believe the engineering team will have its eyes glued to friendly opinions and considerations and extract from those which ones they deem to be the most valid for their purposes. Therefore I would not discourage well intended contributions from the collaborators of this inclusionary forum. Leveraging the power of open brainstorming is always preferable to that of smoke-filled rooms. Because ideas beget ideas which beget ideas. Even hair-brained ideas see their moment under the sun.

          Speaking of which, did you know that Thomas Edison tried many things to use as filaments for his first light-bulb, including cat whiskers. Even hair-brained ideas are stepping stones in the journey of ideation in our path towards engineering excellence. I’m always excited to see new ideas come to light. Many of these contain within them gold nuggets waiting to be extracted.

          • John Malcom

            August 19, 2021 at 6:16 pm

            Fanfare, I am not saying that ideas shouldn’t be generated, documented and assessed, and vetted by a multidisciplinary team from engineering, marketing, finance, and senior management at the right time in the development cycle.

            I am an engineer with 45+ years of engineering experience in vehicle development, aircraft development, and space systems development. As an engineer, I am sure you are aware that we are way past the conceptual/ideation phase in the development of this vehicle. Our engineering efforts at this point should be focused on making a prototype and sourcing production components that are as reliable as possible representing the chosen feature set, manufacturable, and as low cost (Not price, but cost) as possible and getting it in the market as soon as possible.

            If there is such a group in Aptera working on the ideation/design of the next version of an Aptera vehicle, vetting/prioritizing a feature set, and doing risk assessment for developing and manufacturing it, I am SURE that all ideas generated on this forum, plus ideas for other sources will be considered at the right time. A SIGNIFICANT component of the idea set will be feedback from Aptera owners and the market response to the vehicle. This can not happen until production, sales, and some driver experience is available to the team on the currently engineered feature set.

            The engineers, testers, etc. working on this version of the Aptera should not be distracted from the goal of production on schedule, not even by the greatest ideas for enhancement.

            I trust the management and engineering teams (Who have proven to be GREATLY successful) to make the right decisions on ideas presented and if/when to incorporate them.

            As enthusiasts and future owners we should not feel slighted if our favorite ideas are not approved for incorporation “Right away” I think a little trust and patience will win out for Aptera.

  • Kenneth Solberg

    August 18, 2021 at 1:44 pm

    I’ve always been curious about the sizing of the battery packs. Wouldn’t equal size battery modules of 25 kwh make more sense? Then the battery packs would be multiples of 25, 50, 75, and 100 kwh, not the odd 25, 40, 60, and 100 kwh now offered. Would make manufacturing of battery packs more efficient with build up of identical 25 kwh battery modules and probably lower production cost. Am I missing something about the advantages of having 40 and 60 kwh battery packs? Is it a marketing advantage?


      August 18, 2021 at 3:47 pm

      I believe that these numbers might be based on the battery storage area and design layout. I think it is too late to make that kind of change. But I do think it is a good idea. It would also help me from do I want 40 or 60 to NO I WANT 50! Making all the packs the same would be a good production move like you said, standardizing and simplifying the manufacturing operation.

  • Joshua Rosen

    August 20, 2021 at 6:52 am

    For God’s sake don’t use LG batteries. The recalls are costing GM and Hyundai a fortune.

  • Jörg Hucklenbroich

    October 23, 2021 at 2:32 am

    According to some YouTube videos the battery Aptera uses is the Samsung INR21700-50E, which is a cobalt based cell and everything but innovative or friendly to the environment ! Additionally it is a flammable battery type, that makes an Aptera less safe to drive. Aptera, please rethink and use a sustainable technique like LTO or at least LiFePO4 !

    • Joshua Rosen

      October 23, 2021 at 6:49 am

      Samsung is fine, there have been no problems with Samsung batteries. LFPs are OK for the short range vehicles, assuming that they are heated in the winter, but they aren’t sufficient for the long range versions. Personally I have zero interest in the shorter range versions, I have the 600 mile reserved, the shorter range versions don’t do anything that my Model 3 doesn’t already do.

      Aside from cars that had LG batteries, which were defective, there has been no problem with battery fires. Battery fires occur 10 times less frequently than gas fires. I don’t recall seeing a single story about a fire in the Model 3 or Model Y.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    October 23, 2021 at 9:55 am

    I do believe lfp is the optimal chemistry for most shorter range evs. Unfortunately with 4 sizes and a need for a pack level redesign for lfp to meet acceptable gravitational and volumetric density it isn’t an easy swap (cylindrical lfp probably won’t cut it). Prismatic lfp is also big rectangles which is trickier for a vehicle that doesn’t have a large flat space under the body. Nca based 2170s are very good cells with a strong safety record and the only current option for 600+ mile versions. Aptera needs to start producing vehicles and can iterate designs as it’s appropriate (probably 1-2 years into production). Even tesla doesn’t make their own cells so they need to source parts with what is available, engineer a solution, and integrate /test it; this takes time.

    Also personally as someone in a cold climate Nca greatly simplifies things for cold weather. Lfp needs a lot more management, software tuning (narrow voltage band) and precondition work to work well

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