Battery Life

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Battery Life

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Battery Life

  • Battery Life

  • Donald Borger

    Member
    June 13, 2022 at 11:17 am

    Does anyone know what the projected Aptera battery life is? When it comes time to replace the battery, how much will it cost and who will do it?

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    June 13, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    As a rule of thumb a battery should last for at least 500 cycles and as much as 1500 cycles depending on how you treat it. A cycle is defined as 0-100%, so the 400 mile version should last at least 200,000 miles. I haven’t seen anything that mentions the effects of age. They haven’t said what their warranty period will be but the warranty on Tesla’s batteries is 8 years and 120,000 miles (for the LR battery) and 8 years and 100,000 miles for the SR battery. That tells you that Tesla thinks batteries will last for more than 8 years.

    Thermal management is very important to battery life. Aptera is using liquid cooling so that should be OK. Nissan used air cooling in the Leaf and it was a disaster, the early Leafs saw very fast degradation in hot climates. Nissan changed the battery chemistry which improved things a bit. Nissan has switched to liquid cooling it the Ariya.

  • Graham Smith

    Member
    June 13, 2022 at 2:25 pm

    Battery and battery management technology is getting much better, but for what it is worth my 2015 BMW i3 (with liquid cooling) has 53K miles on it and the battery capacity is down ~15% and most of that was before I owned it at 29K miles in 2018, so the rate of loss slows down over time.

    My charging is commonly level 2 from 20% to 100% and with the small battery (22Kwh) in the i3 I expect it has been charged close to 1000 times now. Probably about 5% of charging is rapid charging to 90% on long journeys.

    Note. A ‘100%’ charge in the i3 is not actually 100% as BMW limits it (18.2Kwh) protect the battery.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  Graham Smith.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  Graham Smith.
    • Francis Giroux

      Member
      June 13, 2022 at 5:15 pm

      I an driving a 2000 first generator Honda Insight hybrid. I expected to have to change the battery eventually but after 22 years its working just fine. I don’t know if its Lithium ion or Nickel metal hydrid, and I don’t care as long as it keeps working. 205000 miles.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        June 13, 2022 at 6:04 pm

        Nickel Metal Hydride. You can replace for between $1,400-1,900. My grandfather just replaced his 2004 insight battery. He was using a grid charger for the last year to keep the old battery working. He had over 205,000 miles. Loves that car more than his wife I think

  • Richard Palmisano

    Member
    June 14, 2022 at 4:40 am

    One would need to know a few things first:

    What battery chemistry is Aptera planning on using? Nickel Magnesium Colbolt or Lithium Iron Phosphate? There are benefits/disadvantages to both. Higher Power with NMC but less cycles, Lipo has more cycles yet lower energy density. NMC is “lighter” while LIPO is “heavier” per wH of energy. LIPO is the “safer” chemistry that doesn’t have the thermal runaway problems that NMC does. NMC is more cold weather tolerant than LIPO. It’s difficult to answer the question without any basis on what the battery will be honestly.

    I really hope Aptera considers LIPO, as it makes sense for such an efficient vehicle, and would allow 2-5k cycles depending on the specific chemisty used. On the median you could have a pack that could last for 10 years if it were LIPO.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      June 14, 2022 at 6:23 am

      They’ve said that they are using NMC not LFP. LFPs are harder to manage than NMA and NMC, the charging rates for LFP Teslas were awful during the first winter that they were used. Tesla eventually figured it out and now the LFP Teslas charge as quickly as NMA Teslas but there was obviously a learning curve. My guess is that they want to take the easiest approach right now which is NMC. In a couple of years they can revisit the issue, by then LFPs will have higher densities and maybe a factory in the US (CATL is looking at building a factory here).

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        June 14, 2022 at 8:09 am

        BYD announced a partnership with Tesla. BYD will provide their blade LFPs to Tesla. So Tesla will be moving more to LFP with the blade battery architecture. Obviously reengineering for the blade batteries so some time in the future.

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