Battery pack upgrade

[kerbe2705]

We won’t know until the vehicle is actually produced but, considering that no other EV has this capability, I’d seriously doubt it.

[Riley]

Not easily, if you want to upgrade to a larger pack several years down the road that may be possible. Aptera has to design a completly new pack for every size pack they put into the car. That’s why they will be selling the 400 mile first as it is the right balence of profit and eas of design.

[joshua-rosen]

I can’t imagine it would be cost effective given that the battery pack is by far the most expensive component in the car. Certainly the best option for a new pack would be to trade the car in on a newer model. As for used packs, Nissan Leafs have been upgrade to bigger packs when their batteries were replaced, but that’s always with a pack from a wreaked Leaf. The cost of a new battery pack for a Leaf is more than the car is worth.

[cindy2-poling2]

Yes – wondering how easy is it to switch these batteries out. Is this something that customer can do on their own? Or is this a service center type of thing?

[michael-jarvis]

Will the battery pack(s) be a consumer upgradable/expandable option? If I purchased a 250 mile version, could I add battery packs in the future?

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Wyatt Andrews.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  John Trotter. Reason: Title expanded for search clarity
• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[peter-jorgensen]

They said probably not – however that may change as they enter production. I suspect it may be easier to go from 250 to 400 vs from 600 to 1000.

[glenn-zajic]

I believe an Aptera person said this would be difficult. It kind of bumps up against their right to repair policy though. It may be that the access to this area is no longer available once the top is bonded to the bottom. I think eventually this will get addressed as new battery technology will make us all want to upgrade in years that follow (solid state?). Even without that though, I wonder if there is more bracing ‘in the pan’ area for different sizes of battery configurations. That is the only way I understand why they keep the payload the same for all battery variants.

[harry-parker]

My understanding is that physical limitations make adding hundreds of pounds more battery to an existing Aptera difficult. I imagine the suspension will need to change for those extra hundreds of pounds. (Going from 60 KWH to 100 KWH adds about 400 pounds.) I remember reading at some point that the ~1000 pound 100 KWH battery may need a modified, slightly bulkier body to fit into as well.

[kerbe2705]

None of the currently-available EVs offer this capability – much in the same way that you can’t easily swap-out the 10 gallon fuel tank in an ICE vehicle for one that holds 20 gallons.

[michael-jarvis]

as for ICE machines, they have no need as the current infrastructure is built around them. But I’m only guessing at a large majority of the EV community and perhaps even more so of the ‘early adopters’ with Aptera are DIYers who would prefer the option of expanding range themselves or even upgrading to a newer technology as it would fit with not just the “right to repair” stance but also with the cradle-to-grave extension of reuse vs. recycle of the overall machine itself and getting rid of any planned obsolescence strategies of old school Detroit. I haven’t seen any demographic data on the people who have reservations or know if they are collecting it. Just a guess that it’s probably split between heavily with a large population of this type.

[don-rasky]

Does anyone know if the batteries that come with the Aptera can be upgraded? For example, if you order the 40 kWh battery can it eventually be upgraded to 60 or 100 kWh at a later date without costing more than the price differences between the pack sizes and labor? I figure it is unlikely but what a dreamy situation it would be to be able to upgrade the pack like dropping in a bigger gas tank. Dreaming.

[curtis-cibinel]

Unlikely. The suspension would need to be tailored to the pack weight as they would be about 750lb apart. No other ev has done this and this would be a huge feature.

[john-malcom]

At a minimum battery control software would have to be modified to accommodate the new battery configuration and perhaps the battery control hardware switched out depending on how it is designed. that is in addition to the suspension mods mentioned by Curtis. An expensive proposition

[kerbe2705]

Considering that the battery pack of most modern EVs is accounts for about half the cost of the vehicle might explain why there are NO EVs that offer “upgradable” packs. True, there are some replacement packs for certain vehicles (first gen Nissan Leaf) that offer a slightly larger capacity, but they can’t be considered as “upgrades”.

There are precious few ICE automobiles that offer the ability to “drop in” a larger fuel tank, if any.

That said, if one wants a higher-capacity battery pack at a later date it would, most likely, be more cost-effective to simply buy a different EV at that time.

[glenn-zajic]

It is a lot more than just adding a battery pack. There is the electronics and cooling system too. Possibly increasing the stiffness of suspension system or additional bracing may be required.

[dayn-anderson]

One would think with “right to repair” could mean it’s possible, but honestly, never get the lowest battery option on any EV unless you never really plan on traveling outside a very limited boundary (i.e. NEV/Golf Cart range) because all batteries degrade over time, and smaller batteries generally do not deal with loads as well as larger ones, so I would just say go with the 400 mile+ range battery, and based on the fact that they have been working with Monroe & Associates to design their vehicles, he promotes either the “sealed battery with no maintenance” design, or the “easily accessible for maintenance” designs. Given that Aptera is focused on efficiency, I would guess they would go with the former, as Tesla has done, to reduce weight and costs of manufacture. I wouldn’t be surprised if the battery pack is structural, it will be interesting to see Sandy tear down one of Aptera’s vehicles in future so we can see first hand. ????

[tomrlansing]

Wonder if a battery upgrade program is possible after the delivery such as 40KWH to 60KWH? Seems like 40KWH batteries are planned at first then. Might be asking twice. If so opps.

[peter-jorgensen]

We asked Aptera about that and they said no – we can’t upgrade after purchase.

A few years down the road some clever people might be able to figure out how to swap the right parts out but generally what you get is what you’re stuck with. Go big or go home.

[KayleighVenne]

Hi Tom! You can upgrade your battery pack any time prior to delivery once logged into your https://www.aptera.us account and upon confirmation of the final configuration of your Aptera. However, currently, we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. If you want a bigger pack you would have to replace the whole battery pack. This could be an option in the future! We’re all about continuous innovation, after all! But for now, our goal is to build this vehicle in a very modular fashion to keep the cost low and to hopefully help us scale really quickly.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  bbelcamino.

Aptera

[OZ.]

Kayleigh, thanks for that, any chance you can look at my entry above and weigh in with an estimate on the timeline for getting all four battery sizes in production once it starts?

[ray-holan]

Kayleigh, you are doing the forum a real service by posting. This gives us the benefit of hearing from someone inside the company rather than winnowing through our own speculations to come up with our best guess as to really what’s going on. I’d like to think we are, in the main, realists who realize Aptera is a work and a design in progress. As such, it is going to be fraught with twists and turns along the way. Keep up the good work!

[joshua-caldwell]

Early on, he said yes, upgrades were possible, now he is saying no.

[john-malcom]

I don’t think Aptera ever advertised battery upgrades to the configuration initially purchased after the vehicle is delivered. If you have the reference please share with us.

Aptera has always said you can change any part of your reservation configuration to include battery capacity up to the time you are contacted to purchase a vehicle.

The batteries are not plug and play. Battery control hardware and software need to be changed, changes to the battery compartment where the batteries resideand the cooling system capacity need to be made. The suspension needs to be retuned for the new battery configuration as well. I am sure there are other changes, perhaps to the UI that would need to be made to accommodate the new configuration.

[Stuppie]

Some poetry: People not willing to wait…. but with an earlier preorder date… taking the option to downgrade… resulting in a much longer wait?

[Kip]

Bummer on the upgrade. I was so looking forward to a loooong road trip. I guess I’ll wait for the bigger battery. It’s so hard to be patient when you are so excited to get your delivery.

[jacob-bunce]

Full battery replacements are obvious. They won’t make you junk the whole car just because the battery is used up. But it would certainly be a FULL replacement of all modules. It’s not a good idea to install multiple modules with different wear levels.

However, a good question is… can you increase the capacity at the same time that you replace the entire battery? There are two main considerations here:

1) Form factor / battery compartment. Is there physically enough room to install a larger battery? Are all apteras equipped with the same size battery compartment to leave physical room to install the largest-sized battery in all models?

2) Battery tech. Over time, energy density will improve such that it should be physically possible to install a larger capacity in the same form factor as your older smaller capacity battery.

[thomas-edmonds]

If I order the small battery, will I be able to upgrade by adding cells?

[john-smith-2]

Aptera has said that you can’t.

[kerbe2705]

No EV manufacturer has ever offered this – there are too many technological hurdles to overcome. Think about it in ICE terms: Has any vehicle with a 10 gallon fuel tank ever come with the option of installing a larger tank after purchase?