Buying an Aptera direct outside of California

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Buying an Aptera direct outside of California

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Buying an Aptera direct outside of California

  • Buying an Aptera direct outside of California

     Dennis Swaney updated 2 months ago 35 Members · 60 Posts
  • Doug Happ

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 1:49 pm

    In many states, there are franchise laws that allow a legal purchase of a car only through a registered dealership. Purchasing directly from the manufacturer is illegal. Tesla has found a workaround in some states.

    How is Aptera planning to deal with delivery to states that prohibit direct-purchase?

  • Chris Hale

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 2:00 pm

    The laws only effect direct sales from those particular states. That means that they cannot set up a satellite store to directly sell to those in those states that requires sales through dealerships only. Anyone can order directly from California, and have it shipped to wherever they want to. This is what Tesla did and are still doing here in Texas where I live.

    • Francis Giroux

      Member
      September 8, 2022 at 2:16 pm

      How much is the sales tax in California?

      • Doug Happ

        Member
        September 8, 2022 at 2:29 pm

        If you buy a vehicle in California, you pay a 7.5 percent state sales tax rate regardless of the vehicle you buy. Local governments can take up to 2.5 percent for a vehicle’s sales tax along with the sales tax that goes to counties and cities.If you buy a vehicle in California, you pay a 7.5 percent state sales tax rate regardless of the vehicle you buy. Local governments can take up to 2.5 percent for a vehicle’s sales tax along with the sales tax that goes to counties and cities.

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        September 8, 2022 at 8:49 pm

        According to this site from the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/cdtfa95.pdf the rate in San Diego County is 7.75%. Carlsbad isn’t listed as having a different rate. BTW, in CA you don’t pay a Sales Tax on vehicle purchases; rather you pay a Use Tax (which just happens to be the same rate).

    • Doug Happ

      Member
      September 8, 2022 at 2:27 pm

      Chris, Thanks for responding so quickly, I am having some trouble deciphering your answer. Would it be possible to edit it to clarify some of the pronouns? “That means they…” Is ‘they’ Aptera? “to sell to those (who?) in those states” I assume ‘those states” are the ones that have restrictive franchise laws.

  • Lou Verner

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 2:56 pm

    Regarding sales tax- I believe one pays the sales tax of one’s home state, not the tax of the state vehicle was purchased in. My last vehicle was purchased in NC while I was living in VA. I paid the VA sales tax, not the NC sales tax which was higher!

    • James Bianco Sr

      Member
      September 8, 2022 at 3:28 pm

      Same experience here. Purchased my Viper from MI and paid DE tax. I can only guess that this will be no different.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        September 8, 2022 at 4:01 pm

        Might double check that. If delivery takes place in CA at the factory or any place within the boarders of CA, you will need to pay CA tax. Of course if delivered out side of CA (Across the state boarder) or by some other means (Trucked to your state) you will not have to pay the CA tax. You also might check DE taxing to see if you end up having to pay CA tax if you get DE credit for the amount of CA tax you paid.

        Easiest solution, don’t take delivery in CA

        • Dennis Swaney

          Member
          September 8, 2022 at 8:52 pm

          Arizona will give you a credit for the CA tax; you just pay the difference between it and AZ tax rate.

      • Uncle Dirt

        Member
        September 8, 2022 at 6:01 pm

        Delaware doesn’t have a sales tax….it does have a 4.25% “documentation fee”

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 10:34 pm

    @Doug Happ Aptera is NOT an automobile: It’s either a motorcycle or an autocycle, depending upon state/province/country definitions. There’s not requirement that motorcycles or autocycles be purchased through a franchised dealership.

    You’ll be purchasing your Aptera online – you won’t be carrying a check or bag of cash to the factory. You’ll pay the sales taxes in the jurisdiction in which you make the purchase – just like buying from Amazon.

    • Doug Happ

      Member
      September 9, 2022 at 11:22 am

      Kerbe, You raise good points for the scenario of having Aptera deliver it to me in my state of residence. You assert that the franchise laws do not apply to motorcycles and autocycles. Are you certain that that is true in all states?

      A second scenario that I would like to investigate is traveling to California to take ownership. It raises many questions regarding plates, registration, inspection, sales tax in CA, and sales tax at home.

    • John Voules

      Member
      September 9, 2022 at 3:33 pm

      My life experience is different from what you are stating. I have purchased new and used vehicles from several different states. Depending on where your vehicle will be registered (Illinois for me) thats where you will be paying taxes. If APTERA makes the sale they will need to collect those out of state taxes.

      APTERA would need to set up for every state, because each state is different, to collect that state’s taxes. When you get home you will also need to pay separately for any county or even city taxes to be added. Each state generally has an agreement with each other, not all agreements are the same though.

      APTERA should be able to set it up if you pick up directly from California to give you temporary plates, typically 30days.

      • Too_much Moderation

        Member
        September 9, 2022 at 4:17 pm

        Can’t the vehicle be purchased on MSO and a temp tag if out of state? Then pay taxes in your home state when registered/titled for street use?

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    October 24, 2022 at 5:15 pm

    A new ‘Move’ item has been added to the menu options on the Aptera web site. It helps those in states that either ban direct car sales or require use of helmets to send an email to your representative.

    For those in one of these states it would be helpful for you to send a message.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  bbelcamino.
    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
  • Gabriel Kemeny

    Moderator
    October 24, 2022 at 5:22 pm

    Steve covered this in his AOC YouTube channel:

    Do we even need car dealerships anymore? – YouTube

  • Dan McKelvy

    Member
    October 25, 2022 at 9:09 am

    Here is what I wrote to the Texas Department of Moving Vehicles (aka TXDMV).
    ***
    I am about to purchase a 3 wheeled vehicle from the manufacturer in California. It is called an Aptera. It is a fully enclosed autocycle. It has seat belts, airbags, and all other safety features found in a standard 4 wheel vehicle. <div>

    <div>I understand Texas classifies all autocycles as motorcycles. I also understand Texas law does not permit consumers to purchase a new vehicle directly from the manufacturer. They may only be purchased from a dealership.</div><div>

    The question then is may I legally buy an Aptera directly from the manufacturer in California and accept delivery in Texas because it is classified as a motorcycle?</div><div>

    My alternative is to go to Colorado (the nearest state without this law), purchase the Aptera there and trailer it back to Texas. I much prefer to give my sales tax money to Texas and not to Colorado. </div><div>

    Thank you very much for any advice. </div><div>

    Dan

    <div>**** – This is their reply – ***
    </div></div>


    <div>

    Hello Dan,

    Thank you for contacting us. We hope your day is going well. It is my pleasure to assist you today.</div><div>

    We understand you will be purchasing an Aptera from a manufacturer in California. Please be advised that Texas law does prohibit a Texas licensed manufacturer from retail sales. If you are certain that the manufacturer is not licensed in Texas, you may proceed with the purchase a standard sell and transfer of ownership so long as the manufacturer is operating by and following the laws of California.</div><div>

    To apply for title and registration, submit the following in person to your local county tax office:</div><div>

    Manufacturer Certificate of Origin</div><div>

    Completed Title and/or Registration Application (seller signature is not required, and may be a copy)

    Applicant’s current driver license or government-issued photo identification

    Proof of current insurance

    Proof of current inspection

    Fees:

    Estimated total average fees may be around $119.00 plus 6.25% sales tax

    Fees vary depending on several factors, such as: vehicle type, vehicle weight, and county of residence</div><div>Contact your local county tax office for exact fee amount and payment.

    Be sure to complete your title transfer within 30-days from the date of sale; otherwise, penalty fees may apply.

    ***
    Now all we need is confirmation from Aptera that they are not licensed in Texas. I am hoping someone with more clout with Aptera than I is able to get us some confirmation of this from them. It would be prudent for Aptera to also edit their “MOVE” link on Aptera.us.
    </div></div>

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  Dan McKelvy.
  • kerbe2705

    Member
    October 25, 2022 at 9:56 pm

    Isn’t this all dependent upon the state recognizing Aptera as an AUTOMOBILE? The last I heard there were no laws anywhere about motorcycles/autocycles only being able to be sold by franchised dealerships – and we’ve not seen any evidence of any state recognizing a three-wheeled vehicle as an AUTOMOBILE.

  • Dan McKelvy

    Member
    October 26, 2022 at 3:35 am

    I think you are correct Paul. At least it does make sense.. Whoops! Now I know it’s gotta be wrong. By definition NOTHING in the government makes sense. 🤣😁

  • Dan McKelvy

    Member
    October 26, 2022 at 3:46 am

    I wrote to the Texas Department of Motor Vehicles. There is no department in Texas for Motorcycles or Automobiles. They ignored the issue of ‘type’ of vehicle but they did understand the concern and described the paperwork needed. J. P. Morere chimed in with the same explanation but in simpler and more direct words.

    The result is still…

    WE NEED APTERA TO STEP IN with some kind of statement similar to Tesla’s on this issue. Then add that statement to the MOVE page.

    • J.P. Morere

      Member
      October 26, 2022 at 12:02 pm

      Yes, this is what I failed to close my response with. Aptera really does need to look into and sort out the intricacies of sales in every state and assist the buyer in the purchase and registration of their vehicle much as Tesla has done. Hopefully better… in more clear terms and procedural steps.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      October 26, 2022 at 10:07 pm

      @Dan McKelvy

      https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._transp._code_section_502.005

      • John Wiley

        Member
        October 27, 2022 at 7:27 am

        I recently asked Aptera about this. I live in South Carolina and was concerned that I could have a problem buying direct. This was their response:

        “We want to assure you that we will have a way for all of our members across the US to be able to obtain their vehicles. We are currently working on advocacy efforts to make this process more seamless in your state. We will be providing information regarding your delivery/pick up options once we have finalized these details and are nearing the time of production.”

  • Peter Dezendorf

    Member
    October 27, 2022 at 11:54 am

    If you take a look at https://aptera.us/move/ you will see that there are many states in which a customer could not buy an Aptera.

    OK, what can be done about that? In Virginia, contacting our representatives won’t help. The next legislative session is already crammed full. Tesla somehow managed to get around the regulations prohibiting direct sales. But only Tesla.

    Move

  • Lawrence Leonard

    Member
    October 27, 2022 at 12:00 pm

    Would it be possible to buy it in California, drive it home and pay state taxes?

    • Brandon Meyer

      Member
      November 5, 2022 at 8:20 am

      Yes but you will pay California sales tax at purchase and most likely sales tax in your state at registration

  • BRUCE MENGLER

    Member
    October 27, 2022 at 12:10 pm

    It is legal to buy an Aptera in Tennessee, Maryland, Delaware.
    Perhaps you could make arrangements with Aptera to take delivery in one of the 3 states above.

    FWIW – For non-Californians who want/can buy at the Assembly Plant, California offers a 7 day registration which would allow for “legal” road trip back to your home state for full registration there.

    • Peter Dezendorf

      Member
      October 27, 2022 at 1:58 pm

      If Aptera is allowed to deliver a vehicle to a state other than the one the customer is legally a resident. When Aptera sales fills out the vehicle sale form, it must state the customer’s legal address.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    October 27, 2022 at 12:13 pm

    It’s an online transaction, states can’t prohibit interstate commerce with the sole exception of alcohol (prohibition wasn’t completely repealed, states were given powers over alcohol that don’t apply to any other good). You buy the vehicle from Aptera in California, they then hand it to a third party shipping company who delivers it to you.

    Almost everyone will be buying them online as they won’t have stores or delivery centers. I’m unclear as to how taxes are handled. With regular online transactions you are taxed by the state you live in not the state that where the retailer is located, is that the same for cars. The only out of state car purchases that I’ve done are in New Hampshire which doesn’t have a sales tax. In those cases the dealer gave me the paperwork which I took to the Massachusetts RMV along with a check for the sales tax and I registered the car.

    • BRUCE MENGLER

      Member
      October 27, 2022 at 12:24 pm

      I am retired & live about 15 miles from Aptera’s Assembly building.
      I volunteer to provide at-cost/no profit shuttle service to any Aptera buyer in CONUS.
      No state can prohibit private party sales, so worst case I buy from Aptera in CA & sell to you at any location you specify. This NOT intended to be a tax dodge; just away around dealership restrictions.

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      October 28, 2022 at 6:45 am

      Joshua, I have purchased a number of cars from owners in states outside of my native Ohio. I have always paid Ohio State sales tax on the sale to get a vehicle registration. Last time I did that was around 15 years ago, so things MAY have changed. My plan is to have the Aptera shipped to me by a traditional auto transport company that can accommodate the three-wheel configuration.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        October 28, 2022 at 7:09 am

        An individual owner is not the same as a manufacturer. Individuals are never required to collect sales taxes, companies are. Ordinary online sales are taxed in the state of the buyer but car sales are frequently handled differently then other sales because of their size. For example in Massachusetts if we make ordinary purchases in New Hampshire we are supposed to report them to the state and pay the sales tax ourselves but no one in the 400 years since the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock has ever done that. MA is fully aware of this so they have the RMV make sure you’ve paid the sales tax before you register a car, if you buy it from a dealer or Tesla store in MA they will handle the tax collection and registration for you, if you buy the car in New Hampshire you have to do it on your own and bring a check for the sales tax to the RMV when you register it.

        What’s California’s law regarding sales to out of state buyers? Do they exempt out of state buyers or to use Sopranos speak do they put their beak in?

        • Brandon Meyer

          Member
          November 5, 2022 at 8:24 am

          My understanding is that CA will charge you sales tax if you accept delivery in CA. Shipping is different because you’re not accepting delivery in CA.

  • seth feldman

    Member
    October 27, 2022 at 3:59 pm

    By my count only 18 states allow direct sales. I’m curious if autocycles/motorcycles may actually be exempt in any of those states or if it’s actually all vehicles. I’d like to assume aptera had someone double check that before posting their move site, but obvious things do get looked over.

    From my understanding Tesla could register the vehicle in your home state, as long as you purchased/accepted delivery in an approved state. Basically it’s usually just the sale that’s banned, but vehicles can be brought in and registered after sale has occurred. Hopefully aptera will get something similar going. It is disappointing aptera only has a contact form for 12 of the states unless the others are already changing their rules.

  • Clint Nichols Nichols

    Member
    October 28, 2022 at 5:55 am

    I see PA listed as one of the states where direct sales aren’t allowed, but clicking on the “Contact your representation” does not have a button for PA. Mixed message there. But I am concerned about how to get over that hurdle.

  • Michael Jordan

    Member
    October 28, 2022 at 6:17 am

    I read the bill for Oklahoma. I can’t find out if it passed or not, it looks like it only made it out of committee in the House. However, if it DOES pass, it just has to be sent to a Motor Vehicle Dealer. That means I can have it shipped to a local car dealer if they will take some money to process the transaction. Aptera doesn’t have to have dealerships, they just have to deliver it to a licensed Motor Vehicle Dealer in the state. I can also become a Motor Vehicle Dealer for $300. I would suggest $300 is what I would offer a dealer to take delivery for me.

  • Chris

    Administrator
    October 28, 2022 at 9:41 am

    We are establishing partnerships in the affected states to ensure that our reservation holders can purchase and obtain Aptera. The team will be announcing more information in the future, but in the meantime, please know that we are making significant progress. Thank you for being part of the paradigm shift. There is great strength in numbers!

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    October 28, 2022 at 10:09 pm

    Why are we even HAVING this discussion? Nowhere on the PLANET is Aptera considered to be an AUTOMOBILE! In the US – according to individual state regulations – Aptera is either an autocycle or a motorcycle: The laws enacted to support automotive dealerships DO NOT APPLY to Aptera!

    Aptera will be following an online sales model: You’ll configure and purchase the vehicle online (just like buying a Tesla – or a toaster from Amazon) and you’ll pay the local taxes for where the purchase was made. If you live in Pennsylvania and purchase a Tesla from the factory in Texas, you pay Pennsylvania taxes – not Texas taxes – for the purchase. Same goes for buying a car on Ebay.

    For Aptera to be considered an AUTOMOBILE it would, first, need a fourth wheel – and then it would have to be homologated as an automobile, meeting all the structural and safety considerations required of an automobile.

    • Peter Dezendorf

      Member
      October 29, 2022 at 9:41 am

      No.

      The Virginia regulations concerning purchases uses the phrase “motor vehicles.” Only in a few sections does it call out the type of motor vehicle, such as off-road motorcycle.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        October 29, 2022 at 10:22 pm

        @Peter Dezendorf “No” is the response to what question? Are you saying that, in Virginia, a citizen can’t go online and purchase ANY motorized vehicle directly from its manufacturer? Most motorcycle companies sell direct-to-consumer via their websites – so a Virginian who wants a Harley must find a retailer in VA who sells Harleys and purchase from that retailer instead of directly from Harley-Davidson?

        What about the motorbikes and motorcycles available for purchase on Amazon? Some of them are sold by their manufacturers THROUGH Amazon and others by various retailers who sell through Amazon.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        October 30, 2022 at 7:37 am

        A state can prohibit a store or service center but not an Internet transaction. Stores and service centers are within the state which is why they can be regulated or prohibited. Internet transactions are interstate commerce which is protected by the Constitution, it’s the reason we have the Constitution. Interstate commerce was a hot mess under the Articles of Confederation, that was the incentive for writing the Constitution. You can buy anything that’s legal to own in your state from out of state unless Congress or the Constitution has given the states explicit rights to regulate that good. You do have to pay sales tax on your Internet purchases but that’s because Congress gave the states the right to collect sales taxes on Internet transactions, Congress has the sole right to regulate interstate commerce. When you buy an Aptera that transaction occurs in California under the laws of California. If California laws are problematic then Aptera can set up an entity in another state, for example a sales tax free state without dealer laws, and do the sale through that entity.

  • Jason Whitley

    Member
    November 3, 2022 at 2:51 pm

    Hello all! I live in Alabama, and, while my state has hopped on the bandwagon in the aspects of ev battery production (Tuscaloosa Mercedes) I’m in hopes that there are ways around the whole “dealership law” here. I’ve seen Teslas on the road here, so I assume there is a work around. Granted I’ll go all the way to Cali to get my Aptera, I’d rather not have to. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.

  • Patrick Dunn

    Member
    November 3, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    I just found out today this could be an issue. However, I’m in Nevada, and would happily trek to SD to pick one up.

  • BRUCE MENGLER

    Member
    November 3, 2022 at 4:09 pm

    Mississippi is a green state; which could shorten your travel to buy your Aptera.

    https://aptera.us/move/

    Move

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      November 3, 2022 at 4:48 pm

      As are Tennessee & Florida.

      • Jason Whitley

        Member
        November 3, 2022 at 5:32 pm

        So I could book a vaca in Chattanooga or see relatives in FL. cool, cool. I’m just ignorant on how the whole process would play out.

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  Jason Whitley. Reason: grammar and spelling
        • This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
    • Jason Whitley

      Member
      November 3, 2022 at 5:29 pm

      Aye that! Excellent news! But, how exactly would the process go? I’m over 40 and am use to “brick and mortar” businesses.

  • Camille Mosley-Pasley

    Member
    November 3, 2022 at 5:41 pm

    I had no idea there would be obstacles on the state level. I’m glad I live in MD instead of an adjoining state. I noticed AL isn’t included on the Freedom to Buy/Contact your rep page but MS is. I’m wondering if they colored the wrong state green.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      November 3, 2022 at 5:51 pm

      The MS state legislature is trying to ban direct sales, but so far has failed. Aptera is telling residents they need to be alert and block future attempts.

  • Casey McCarty

    Member
    November 4, 2022 at 12:16 am

    I just contacted the folks that represent me in Washington state. It’s pretty easy using the boilerplate provided by Aptera in the “Move” section of the main menu over there on the left. I changed my address to include the second four digits of my Zip Code. Political people kind of read it as code for “I vote” which is a hack they understand. And you can modify it to be more personal and take some of the mystery out of BEVs for our leadership people.

    If your state isn’t green on the map then get off your ass and get it done. Hmmm; I wonder what the black state letter looks like?

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      November 4, 2022 at 8:59 am

      Hopefully these templates and efforts to get people lobbying for changes can extend to canada where we also have regulatory problems. Alberta requires both a helmet and motorcycle license. Ontario and many maritime provinces require helmets.

    • Casey McCarty

      Member
      November 4, 2022 at 5:35 pm

      The point some of us is missing is that you shouldn’t have to travel to another state to buy something that is legal in all senses.

      The other points are repair and maintenance. Aptera may be challenged to establish a repair station in your area.

      Besides; Why are these “Freedom” people putting rules and regulations in our lives that really serve a very small minority of citizens. Aptera is not alone in this hassle. A letter or email from a constituent is helpful to the people that make or change our laws.

    • Karen Copher

      Member
      November 4, 2022 at 6:45 pm

      I also contacted my representatives in Washington state to encourage a change to allow manufacturer direct vehicle sales here. Tesla was granted a variance in WA, so if the many interested in Aptera push our reps a bit, we have a chance to make this green state even greener.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Karen Copher.
  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    November 4, 2022 at 2:09 pm

    Looking at the map, South Carolina is a black state. Manufacturers are not allowed to put factory-owned dealerships here.

    I contacted our DMV and they don’t mind if we buy a vehicle from the manufacturer via the internet and have it delivered. Or we can travel to a neighboring state to buy one and register it here.

    They confirmed the Aptera is a motorcycle. And sales tax on a motorcycle in SC is 5% or $500.00 whichever is lower.

    I didn’t ask about helmets because helmets aren’t required for people over 21 to ride any type of motorcycle, 2 wheels, 3 wheels, enclosed or not.

    So even though the map shows my state in Black, it doesn’t looks like it’ll be a problem to buy an Aptera.

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