CAN Bus and OBD II port infoPosted by paul-schultz on October 12, 2021 at 5:59 pm
Any information out there on CAN bust architecture for the Aptera? CAN 2.0? CAN-FD? Will Aptera protect its CAN data packets behind a security gateway? I ask since I am a longtime user of comma.ai/OpenPilot on my current vehicle and am curious if the Aptera CAN bus would be amenable to incorporating the comma/OP setup. …and yes, I am aware that Aptera is going to offer their own level 2 system but OpenPilot is very high level and it would be nice to have it ported to Aptera if the CAN bus isn’t locked down by Aptera.
MemberOctober 12, 2021 at 6:20 pm
Not sure what Aptera’s motivation to do this would be if not already a part of the software architecture.
As I understand it, OpenPilot is public share ware. I don’t see this as value add and the cost and time to accommodate would detract from the current plan for test and production. May also compromise current security architecture in ways not readily apparent at first. As share ware, Aptera would have to assume maintenance responsibility for their specific implementation for the life of the vehicle model or until it is deleted from the architecture.
The Aptera software architecture is set and development well along with selected vendors for each component. Beta prototypes are being built for testing and will have a next to final integrated version of the software suit with only a few tweaks and bug fixes remaining if any.
Also the information you are asking for is pretty sensitive and of course proprietary.
But since we don’t know anything about the SW Architecture at this point, OpenPilot may be a part of it. They are Neighbors in San Diego after all
MemberOctober 12, 2021 at 6:38 pm
You misread. This isn’t a suggestion that Aptera invests time and/or resources regarding comma/OP. It is simply two areas of inquiry: 1) What CAN architecture will they use? and 2) Will they place a security gateway on the OBD2 port?
GM and Toyota have comma/OP ports but some most recent model years now have further security gateways on the OBD2 port. Typically, connecting to the CAN bus at the front-facing camera helps bypass these new restrictions found at the OBD2 port.
The comma/OP community ports to the new vehicles and then based on a vigorous set of safety criteria/testing, comma.ai can move a vehicle to their official supported status. Sometimes if the demand is present comma.ai buys a representative vehicle from a manufacturer and does the official ports themselves. I doubt there will be enough Aptera’s for comma.ai to take this route.
Many vehicles with OEM level 2 are already ported as comma/OP is far superior to almost all OEM implementations. Only Tesla’s FSD is in the same league. Each has its own strengths/weaknesses. In fact, comma/OP happens to be ported to Tesla as well. The comma hardware is a standalone device that plugs into the CAN bus to access/control steering/acceleration/braking. There would be absolutely no development resource utilization required of Aptera.
Finally, in a Consumer Report review of the main level 2 options published about November 2020, comma/OP was the #1 rated system. And, it was the only add-on system among those evaluated beating Tesla, GM Supercruise, and several others. Aptera may surprise us but I doubt they will ship with a better level 2 system than comma/OP.
So, this is a valid topic for those of us wishing to consider the best level 2 options for our future Aptera.
MemberOctober 13, 2021 at 5:13 am
> I am aware that Aptera is going to offer their own level 2 system but OpenPilot is very high level and it would be nice to have it ported to Aptera
Aptera isn’t going to build L2 assist from scratch. They’ll integrate something existing based on their business and technical requirements. I wouldn’t assume they aren’t aware of Comma or are not considering it.
MemberOctober 13, 2021 at 7:25 am
I would also like access to the CANBUS network. I’d like to read when events happen so a standalone speaker/amp can play custom sounds when the car does something. I’d also like to add my own buttons to trigger events without using the touchscreen. Access to the canbus would be fantastic even if it’s just through an OBD2 port.
Security risk is low for hacking through the obd2 port so I’m not super concerned about it being unprotected there.
MemberOctober 13, 2021 at 5:52 pm
Does anyone have any insight into my original questions? There are some of us that do want access to the CAN bus. I do want to use this access to potentially help develop OpenPilot for the Aptera. Apparently my original post allowed a very tangential path… trying to redirect to the original thread topic.
MemberDecember 6, 2022 at 10:56 am
Will/does the Aptera have an ODB II port? Since it is not classed the same as a 4 wheel vehicle, I’m wondering if one is even required? Even if it isn’t required, that would be the easiest way to “talk” to the CUs.
MemberDecember 6, 2022 at 11:05 am
It’s not required in an EV, Tesla’s don’t have one. The legal requirement for an OBDII port is for emissions testing. There are alternative ways to provide the diagnostic information that you get from an OBDII port which is an antique port. I’d like them to just provide the info on the infotainment screen or via Bluetooth or the cloud to a phone app.
MemberDecember 6, 2022 at 1:50 pm
I use the OBD II port on my ICE vehicle to connect my programmable HUD. I hope there is a way to do this in the Aptera.
MemberDecember 7, 2022 at 8:09 am
You can find the OBD-II under the dash of the Tesla Model S and X. The other option is to use the Ethernet port on the drivers side left dash console, there is a plate to uncover to expose it.
MemberDecember 7, 2022 at 9:23 am
MemberApril 12, 2023 at 3:29 pm
Something that would be a great addition to the Aptera’s embracing of right to repair would be a “built in” OBD II scanner. Rather than requiring someone to hook up a scanner as they would in a different car, it would be really cool if Aptera integrate all the functionality and data that will be available on the OBD II port on the built-in display. This would mean that owners will be able to perform all the diagnosis and repair that you would need a scanner for, without having to buy an expensive scanner.
I know that some scanners are relatively inexpensive, but ones that support two way functionality (prime example: one that can retract the electronic parking brake to replace the brake pads) are still quite expensive.
MemberApril 12, 2023 at 4:03 pm
This would not be difficult to implement at all. I am sure someone will pipe in that right now the priority is to deliver the LE with added OTA features being added later. While implemented differently GM has this feature via OnStar. The Malfunction Indicator Lamp illuminates and the user can push the blue OnStar button and get a report of codes sent to their email. Obviously, GM goes this route to keep users happy with as many OnStar features so they continue to pay a monthly subscription fee. But, this report could easily be displayed on a “Vehicle Health” screen… and even emailed to the owner’s email. All this would not take much coding effort at all.
Given the focus on getting to production, I doubt this feature will ship with the LE Apterae. But, it could be an easy add-on via an OTA update somewhere downstream.
MemberApril 12, 2023 at 4:09 pm
I have a custom unit connected to the driver information system in my car which can be used to scan it (both error codes, and all the other engine parameters too). Very useful when a light comes on. The radiator started leaking a few months ago, so while I was waiting for the appointment with the mechanic, I configured several of the car’s temperature probes to show up on the display.
MemberApril 12, 2023 at 10:14 pm
I don’t think it will have an ODB port because I understand its purpose is to diagnose and report on the emission control system. I could be off on that so someone should confirm whether I’m correct or all wet.
ModeratorSeptember 17, 2023 at 1:16 pm
At 7:40 in this video, Chris M says no OBD port.