CAN Bus and OBD II port

[john-malcom]

Not sure what Aptera’s motivation to do this would be if not already a part of the software architecture.

As I understand it, OpenPilot is public share ware. I don’t see this as value add and the cost and time to accommodate would detract from the current plan for test and production. May also compromise current security architecture in ways not readily apparent at first. As share ware, Aptera would have to assume maintenance responsibility for their specific implementation for the life of the vehicle model or until it is deleted from the architecture.

The Aptera software architecture is set and development well along with selected vendors for each component. Beta prototypes are being built for testing and will have a next to final integrated version of the software suit with only a few tweaks and bug fixes remaining if any.

Also the information you are asking for is pretty sensitive and of course proprietary.

But since we don’t know anything about the SW Architecture at this point, OpenPilot may be a part of it. They are Neighbors in San Diego after all

[paul-schultz]

You misread. This isn’t a suggestion that Aptera invests time and/or resources regarding comma/OP. It is simply two areas of inquiry: 1) What CAN architecture will they use? and 2) Will they place a security gateway on the OBD2 port?

GM and Toyota have comma/OP ports but some most recent model years now have further security gateways on the OBD2 port. Typically, connecting to the CAN bus at the front-facing camera helps bypass these new restrictions found at the OBD2 port.

The comma/OP community ports to the new vehicles and then based on a vigorous set of safety criteria/testing, comma.ai can move a vehicle to their official supported status. Sometimes if the demand is present comma.ai buys a representative vehicle from a manufacturer and does the official ports themselves. I doubt there will be enough Aptera’s for comma.ai to take this route.

Many vehicles with OEM level 2 are already ported as comma/OP is far superior to almost all OEM implementations. Only Tesla’s FSD is in the same league. Each has its own strengths/weaknesses. In fact, comma/OP happens to be ported to Tesla as well. The comma hardware is a standalone device that plugs into the CAN bus to access/control steering/acceleration/braking. There would be absolutely no development resource utilization required of Aptera.

Finally, in a Consumer Report review of the main level 2 options published about November 2020, comma/OP was the #1 rated system. And, it was the only add-on system among those evaluated beating Tesla, GM Supercruise, and several others. Aptera may surprise us but I doubt they will ship with a better level 2 system than comma/OP.

So, this is a valid topic for those of us wishing to consider the best level 2 options for our future Aptera.

Paul

[john-belmonte]

> I am aware that Aptera is going to offer their own level 2 system but OpenPilot is very high level and it would be nice to have it ported to Aptera

Aptera isn’t going to build L2 assist from scratch. They’ll integrate something existing based on their business and technical requirements. I wouldn’t assume they aren’t aware of Comma or are not considering it.

[peter-jorgensen]

I would also like access to the CANBUS network. I’d like to read when events happen so a standalone speaker/amp can play custom sounds when the car does something. I’d also like to add my own buttons to trigger events without using the touchscreen. Access to the canbus would be fantastic even if it’s just through an OBD2 port.

Security risk is low for hacking through the obd2 port so I’m not super concerned about it being unprotected there.

[paul-schultz]

Does anyone have any insight into my original questions? There are some of us that do want access to the CAN bus. I do want to use this access to potentially help develop OpenPilot for the Aptera. Apparently my original post allowed a very tangential path… trying to redirect to the original thread topic.

Paul

[george-hughes]

It would seem to me that the decision to ‘open or close’ the CAN bus is binary.

And if it is binary, the right to repair principle, embraced by Aptera, would strongly suggest that they would not make the type of moves I expect most other automakers.

Closing and providing roadblocks to the digital innards of the vehicle, seems to me to wreak of self-interest. After GM’s investor meet, in which they told shareholders they expect to sell data, as well as proprietary apps suggests their answer would be to prevent any modification that might inhibit their desire to sell your data or rent you apps.

Certainly I have no knowledge of engineering decisions being made at Aptera and I’m sure there are arguments for and against allowing access to the CAN bus … but if Chris and Steve are true to the ‘right to repair’ principle including the promise of long term upgradability, the answer should be YES; you’ll have access to the CAN bus and by extension, the controls.

Frankly, this aspect of the Aptera vision is what cinched the deal for me.

[ROMAD]

Will/does the Aptera have an ODB II port? Since it is not classed the same as a 4 wheel vehicle, I’m wondering if one is even required? Even if it isn’t required, that would be the easiest way to “talk” to the CUs.

[joshua-rosen]

It’s not required in an EV, Tesla’s don’t have one. The legal requirement for an OBDII port is for emissions testing. There are alternative ways to provide the diagnostic information that you get from an OBDII port which is an antique port. I’d like them to just provide the info on the infotainment screen or via Bluetooth or the cloud to a phone app.

[ROMAD]

With my VW Jetta, I can use it to reconfigure lots of non-emissions related settings like locking, windows, clock & instrument displays, etc. If they are serious about RTR & DIY then they will require some way to plug in a computer with diagnostic software and accessing all of the CUs. There will have to be a port and the OBD II is the standard.

[Shawgrin]

Josh, “The Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are not equipped with a standard OBD2 port”. Instead, a console connector is located behind the front seats behind a cover in the centre console, wherein you can plug-in an OBD2 tool or device using a Tesla OBD2 adapter, in Europe,

In North America https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_cn/GUID-B27A666D-866B-4766-B690-CCD1B66E2134.html

[joshua-rosen]

Yes it’s possible to hack in an OBDII connector but it’s not common. Tesla doesn’t do that to get diag information, they just access it remotely. Early on I had a Tesla tech come look at a window problem I was having, he plugged his laptop to the car via Ethernet. I’m not sure of the exact location of the port but I think it’s under the drivers side dash. (BTW the window problem was fixed with an OTA, it was software).

[Shawgrin]

Josh, you did not see the exert from the owners manual. It also could be that the techs you spoke to are not trained in diagnostics. either way you have only spread disinformation. If you do your Due Diligence you will find OBD2 is expandable for future generations. The connector has many open pen spots for newer technologies.

[Henele]

I use the OBD II port on my ICE vehicle to connect my programmable HUD. I hope there is a way to do this in the Aptera.

[Frenchy]

You can find the OBD-II under the dash of the Tesla Model S and X. The other option is to use the Ethernet port on the drivers side left dash console, there is a plate to uncover to expose it.

[ROMAD]

Here is a pinout of the ODB II connector as SAE J1962 defines it. I wonder if the Ethernet connector in the Teslas is connected to pins 3, 8, 11, 12, & 13?