CCS charging with Tesla Superchargers

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions CCS charging with Tesla Superchargers

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions CCS charging with Tesla Superchargers

  • CCS charging with Tesla Superchargers

  • Joey Lao

    Member
    June 24, 2022 at 9:05 am

    Charging an Aptera at a Tesla station will most likely be a thing.

    https://insideevs.com/news/585238/elon-musk-ccs1-plugs-coming-us-superchargers/

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    June 24, 2022 at 9:38 am

    This won’t be helpful. They will only put it in a few select places and likely only for new Superchargers where they receive subsidies, if they retrofit existing Superchargers it will only happen when they do upgrades or add capacity. That will take years. By the time any significant number of Superchargers have CCS plugs the regular CCS network will have been built out to the level where it’s as usable as the Supercharger network.

    If Aptera ends up with a CCS1 plug, which is likely even though Chris would dearly like to use the Tesla plug, there is one silver lining. Because the Aptera is 2-3 times as efficient as other CCS cars it can use the older 62KW CCS chargers. Adding 150 miles of range to an Aptera only requires 15KWh which assuming they do a good job with the charging curve might only take 20 minutes at a 62KW charger, that’s an acceptable time. People with mainstream EVs will be seeking out EA chargers because the alternative for them is to spend an hour charging. The low power chargers aren’t going away, they are much cheaper to install and retailers who install chargers want them to be slow so that people will be forced to shop. Volta said they will be installing DC chargers at either Walgreens or somebody like that, I saw an interview with a Volta exec about a month ago so I don’t exactly remember which company it was but I think it was Walgreens. But his main point for Volta’s business model is that chargers are installed in partnership with retailers, the retailers do it to attract business, charging is not their business it’s selling you stuff. They don’t want people stopping just to charge, they need them to have to wait, and they don’t want to be paying for 350KW chargers. For every car but an Aptera these chargers might be able to give them enough for a commute but not enough for road tripping. But for an Aptera they are as good as a V2 Tesla Supercharger is for a Model 3.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      June 24, 2022 at 10:40 am

      @Joshua Rosen – don’t let it be said that I never totally agree with you because, in this case, I do! 😁

    • Gordon Niessen

      Member
      June 26, 2022 at 5:40 am

      The Aptera will probably be limited to 50kW charging, regardless of plug.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        June 26, 2022 at 8:01 am

        That’s going to be the deal breaker for Tesla. Chris really really wants to use the Tesla connector and the Supercharger network but when Elon asks what the charging rate will be and Chris says 50 or 60KW that’s going to be the end of the conversation, Aptera needs to figure out how to charge at a reasonable rate of they’ll have to agree to pay two or three times as much per KWh as a Tesla. Tesla can’t permit a slow charging car to hog a Supercharger.

        • GRAUSS Thierry

          Member
          July 14, 2022 at 10:58 am

          It is not that difficult to allow a faster charging speed on Aptera. They need to have a hatch which will open to allow a fan to blow air on a heat exchanger when charging at high speed. It might even be useful in case of overheating of the battery (to avoid any battery problem like on the Nissan Leaf).

          By the way, in Europe, Tesla superchargers are all CCS-2 and they are progressively opening them to other cars (whatever the charging speed is).

  • rich garlick

    Member
    June 24, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    Volta has partnered with the Safeway Grocery store chain and some Whole Foods stores in Phoenix, AZ and offers FREE L2 charging for 2 hrs if the business is OPEN. Same thing at Top Golf but 3 hrs. Also at strip Malls / Shopping Centers . they are building fast here. most are 2 stall setups…..now 40 in the greater Phoenix area.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by  rich garlick.
  • Constance Fry

    Member
    June 24, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    I believe Chris strongly hinted during the last live Q&A that Aptera is leaning towards the Tesla plug for charging (if they can license the protocol from Tesla). As a Model Y owner, I know that Tesla adapters for other charging standards (CCS, J1772) work very well.

    • Paul Carlucci

      Member
      June 25, 2022 at 11:42 am

      Meanwhile the adapters for going from an Tesla EVSE to a J1772 car look pretty beastly. If you aren’t willing to commit to buying Teslas and Apteras and only those two until your end of days then you’re going to own vehicles with different ports. Because of the aforementioned then in a mixed household you’re going to really want J1772 for at home anyway. I’m failing to see how the Tesla plug is a win here. Being physically smaller than CCS doesn’t matter at all since the EU version will have to have the port located somewhere that can accommodate CCS unless Aptera ignores homogeneity and design the EU and US versions have their ports in entirely different locations. The base design MUST have a location for CCS and design around that therefore whatever packaging advantage offered by the smaller Tesla connector really doesn’t matter. It’s also hitching our wagon to Tesla’s plug whereas CCS in short order is going to get anointed as the official standard in the US. It may or may not happen prior to the Paradigms getting built, but it very likely will prior to mine.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        June 25, 2022 at 12:24 pm

        Ccs1 in the US is not the same as cc2 (but is roughly the same size). Fyi the US made Ccs1 the standard in their documents on June 9th: https://www.natlawreview.com/article/us-department-transportation-proposed-rulemaking-aims-to-set-minimum-standards-ev?amp

        I’m personally fine with either as long as dcfc is an option. Here in bc the number of stalls is roughly equal for tesla/ccs chargers and both are everywhere.

        • Paul Carlucci

          Member
          June 25, 2022 at 12:35 pm

          My argument on Aptera’s packaging was based purely upon the physical size of the EU CCS plug and not on the electrical compatibility. The Mennekes L2 handle supports three phase whereas J1772 is single, but they’re about the same size more or less, as are their respective derivative CCS versions. Since Aptera has made it rather clear that they intend to sell in EU the case the only argument for the Tesla plug is that it’s a smaller thing to hold in your hand for the 6 seconds it takes to plug in the darned thing. Humans have somehow managed to deal with gas pumps which are larger and heavier, we’ll be fine.

          • Jonah Jorgenson

            Member
            June 25, 2022 at 1:01 pm

            👍👍

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            June 25, 2022 at 1:22 pm

            I think for most people it has far more to do with the quality of the tesla supercharger network when compared to the ccs charge networks. Reliability, number and location quality for CCS chargers in parts of the US suck. Hopefully an injection of money from the feds will address the number of chargers but unless they substantially improve maintenance the charge networks are still poor.

          • kerbe2705

            Member
            June 25, 2022 at 9:52 pm

            @Paul Carlucci

          • Gordon Niessen

            Member
            June 26, 2022 at 5:43 am

            I think the elegance of the Tesla plug would go best with the Aptera.

  • Graham Smith

    Member
    June 26, 2022 at 11:23 am

    I agree with Chris’s observation that the Tesla charging connector is capable and far smaller, but I’m not sure it would make sense for Aptera to use it.

    The EU requires that all new EVs use CCS-2, which is why Teslas in Europe now come with CCS-2 ports. The EU are also enforcing USB-C as a charging standard for phones.

    I believe the Aptera will need to provide a CCS-2 port in European models which is an even bigger connector than CCS-1 used in the US. As the design likely has to accommodate CCS-2 I’m not sure what the benefit would be of using the Telsa port in America vs CCS-1. To make things more awkward I believe CHAdeMO is still the de-facto standard in Japan and it is a massive connector that Aptera would have to accommodate if Japan is a target market.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      June 26, 2022 at 12:49 pm

      Certainly agree that a CCS adapter is the right choice for Aptera for both the U.S. (CCS1) and Europe (CCS2). To use the size/weight of the charger handle as a criteria for choosing a plug seems like a form over function criteria which, in my opinion, is counter to Aptera’s ethos of efficiency.

      Sooner or later even the mighty Tesla will have to bow to the CCS standard. Perhaps already started as they will equip their chargers with CCS plugs.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      July 12, 2022 at 11:14 pm

      Ccs1 is the inevitable standard for North America. Japan is irrelevant and still largely denies the exists of evs; it’s standards could still be in flux. Ideally Aptera will take a modular approach with a space large enough for any standard and required interface electronics.

  • Lane Costilow

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 6:32 pm

    Don’t they make adapters to convert charger output to your vehicle’s input?

    • Jeffrey May

      Member
      July 13, 2022 at 12:41 am

      Yes, there are now CCS1-to-Tesla adapters.

      But if Apteras don’t get access to Tesla’s existing Supercharger network, then the aesthetic/ergonomic benefit of using a Tesla connector will be very minor and the downside of having to use an adapter every time you DC charge will be far more significant.

      • GRAUSS Thierry

        Member
        July 14, 2022 at 10:53 am

        In Europe, Tesla uses only CCS2 plugs, like any other manufacturers. It was only the very early Teslas which were using a special plug.

        All the Tesla superchargers have CCS2 now.

        So it does not make sense for Aptera to have an adapter. Aptera must fit a CCS2 plug, at least in Europe.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 3:01 am

    If the vast amount of Apteras aren’t or won’t be used for long trips, I don’t see most of them using the Super Charger network. Aptera gets plenty of miles overnight when the rates are lower (12-6am) I’ve had my M3 for almost a year now and have never used a Super Charger. I like the Tesla plug. It’s small and convenient. Sure on my little 110 outlet I only get 6 miles an hour but that’s all I need. Besides, you can argue with $29 a month for charging?

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