MemberMay 10, 2022 at 11:22 am
Today (May 10, 2022), Chris Anthony participated in an on-line Morgan Lewis webinar “EVolve With Us: Electric Vehicles Symposium.” He was gracious enough to answer questions from several Aptera enthusiasts who were on-line viewing the webinar via the chat side bar. Here is a transcript of that “chat.”
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 11:27 am
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 11:54 am
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 12:29 pm
Surprising answer on motor production. Parts from across the world assembled in the SD facility. A litt!e counter to subsystem approach, but maybe necessary. A nightmare of logistics coordination to come together at the right time in the right numbers. Maybe easier to control QA and quicker to remediate defects.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by John Malcom. Reason: Added idea
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 12:44 pm
I’m wondering if the motor production plan is a sign that the Aptera team doesn’t think a Foxconn/Lordstown deal is possible? As you rightfully mention (on two points) QA should be much tighter producing the motors in house and the logistics to coordinate all of the parts delivering when/where needed will be challenging at best. My hunch is that Aptera will partner with a yet unnamed partner to provide 3PL off sight storage so that completed motor units are the only items flowing into the SD facility, but I’ve been wrong before (just ask my wife!)
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 12:38 pm
I’m a little taken back on Chris’ comments on charging standards and his love for Tesla’s. I’d hate to have Tesla be the charging standard given the closed network. I’d much rather see them adopt CCS with the option of a Tesla adapter with agreements to use their network. I don’t see Tesla winning the long game on their charging standard and I’d hate to be caught in a situation akin to ChadeMo years from now. It is happening in Europe and Tesla won’t have the whole market that much longer as competition is clearly going to CCS.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 1:38 pm
Just today Elon confirmed they’re going to add CCS and open the network in the US
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 5:36 pm
Tesla in Europe is CCS
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 6:04 pm
Unless Tesla voluntarily starts backing away from their proprietary plug we will likely have 2 plug standards forever in North America; It doesn’t matter that the Tesla plug is technically superior. Perhaps this means more adapters, Tesla adapters secured to the CCS cables (stored at the base when not needed), or tesla cars shipping with two different connectors for years. CCS isn’t the best solution but its the one the industry overall has chosen.
Chademo was a different beast since it was not viable long term with the 50 KW design limitation.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 7:55 pm
The NHTSA should quickly decide on a national standard for charging, preferably one that is also an international standard.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 10:56 pm
NHTSA deals with safety issues and concerns: Charging is outside their remit.
The issue is that, at present, there are three different charging standards in the US: To declare one “official” would serve no purpose. This is a market-driven decision: The most popular standard will, eventually, win out. Are you old enough to recall the “VHS – BetaMax” war? BetaMax was technologically superior, featuring better audio and video, but it was more expensive than VHS.
Right now ChaDeMo is still the most common DCFC system in Japan, but Japanese manufacturers have stopped using it in exported EVs. So, as vehicles with ChaDeMo start to face from the scene, we’ll be down to two: CCS and Tesla. And Tesla – as has been noted by other posters – uses a proprietary connector and port ONLY in North America: They use CCS everywhere else.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 11:12 pm
Ccs1 for North America and ccs2 for Europe are physically different. That said pin converters exist so it seems they are close. Dc adapters for tesla charging with ccs also exist so it is likely possible to convert the other way (currently useless since superchargers only work with approved tesla Vins)
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 12:40 pm
Thank you for this. Lots of good questions/answers. Had every intention of attending myself but then I totally forgot about the time zone difference. Whoops. Next time?
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 12:50 pm
Q&A Chat was mostly Aptera questions, lol. Love it. Some good replies from Chris. Here is the video from the event trimmed to Aptera’s parts.
ModeratorMay 10, 2022 at 5:00 pm
Thanks for posting the trimmed video, Raj.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 12:55 pm
Great stuff. Really interesting to see his views on a few things:
- “I wish everyone would just adopt Tesla standards and we could ALL just use the same system with one plug” / “Having a single standard would benefit everyone in EV. And Tesla CLEARLY has the best standard and the most hours of charging to prove it out. Seems like we just need to continue to lobby Tesla to let everyone use their tech…” / “My first act = Tesla Charge Plugs for ALL Charging and V2G needs :)” (in regard to if he was president) – this might indicate that Tesla vs CCS isn’t as set in stone as many have assumed. Honestly I’m good with either since CCS networks are very solid given “low power” 50kw is not a limiting factor like for other EVs. Canada has a ton of CCS chargers.
- “We’re scaling to 20,000 units per year as quickly as possible” – given they previously set expectations that one facility would produce 10,000 per year this could mean a relatively near term plan for a 2nd facility is in the works. we have a few good locations here in Kelowna 😉
- “possible a third sear for kids forward facing in the center rear” – lots of people will love to have this feature!
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 1:39 pm
Elon confirmed in interview today they’re opening the supercharger network in the US and adding CCS to them. No timeline but confirmed at least.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 2:00 pm
Great to see more openness. Long term it is hard to predict what will happen but I suspect dual headed chargers and adapters will be with us for a long time unless Tesla decides to abandon their own plug and fully embrace CCS.
In my neck of the woods we just have no real foreseeable problem either way. These maps are the tesla superchargers vs CCS DCFC in BC/Alberta. Admittedly most CCS sites are 2-4 stalls vs Tesla 4-12 but we have tons of CCS plugs in western canada.
If I ever drive across to Newfoundland to see family I would actually have a problem with a Tesla plug since they have no superchargers but multiple CCS locations exist.
I definitely agree the CCS plug is brobdingnagian but I cant see the size/weight being that big of a real world problem for many people still fit enough to drive.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 3:36 pm
Why did they skip Newfoundland? Even PEI has one!
As Chris has said multiple times – and he’s correct – the Tesla connector is an elegant design. The port it also small enough to fit underneath a NA-sized motorcycle license plate, whereas the CCS port is large and the connector is awkward.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 4:13 pm
PEI has 6 separate CCS DCFC locations (all with only one station) and 1 tesla supercharger location (with 8 stations). Seems like relative to number of EVs that CCS is way ahead but single station locations do suck.
J1772 vs Tesla destination chargers are more far common in frequency according to plugshare. Pretty sure level 2 can be converted with a simple adapter in either direction.
Note: On plugshare if zoomed out too much it doesn’t show everything seems to sometimes cap – seems a bit random. You need to zoom in rather extreme on a small section of a state because otherwise the app seems to limit to 250 locations. LOTS of chargers.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 3:31 pm
In its European tests, Tesla has added CCS cables to their Supercharger units and those non-Tesla drivers wishing to use CCS must access and pay for it using an app – it’s not the same “seamless” system beloved by Tesla drivers.
Unless Aptera has a special agreement with Tesla, plugging a Supercharger cable into an Aptera isn’t going to work as Tesla vehicles and Superchargers have a proprietary “handshake” that allows them to recognize each other.
On the other hand, there are probably more Tesla Destination Chargers (L2) available at hotels and restaurants than there are J1772-equipped EVSEs. Also, considering Tesla’s new policy of charging new owners extra to purchase a 32A Mobile Connector, the price is only $200 (including both a NEMA 14-50 and NEMA 5-15 plugs) and they’ve lowered the price of the 48A Tesla Wall Connector – their L2 EVSE – to $400. Considering that the top-rated 32A ChargePoint Home Flex EVSE has just jumped in price from $699 to $925…
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 2:02 pm
Hi Curtis, regarding a third seat, just now doing some digging to see if the Aptera needs a front license plate here in Ontario. I came across a few items that surprised me. The government is running a pilot project until 2026 on three wheelers. Snipit:
To drive a three-wheeled vehicle you must:
- have a full class G class driver’s licence, or an A, B, C, D, E or F driver’s licence.
- wear an approved motorcycle safety helmet
- wear a seat belt
- register your three-wheeled vehicle as a motorcycle and pay the corresponding fee
You are not permitted to:
- carry passengers who are as infants, toddlers, pre-schoolers or primary grade children
- use your three-wheeled vehicle for an Ontario driver’s licence road test
- attach a sidecar or trailer to the three-wheeled vehicle
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Randy J.
MemberMay 10, 2022 at 2:19 pm
Unfortunately this program is another one that fails to recognize the difference between an enclosed autocycle and a 3 wheel motorcycle; admittedly few examples have existed in recent years. It takes as long time for broken rules to catch up; hopefully lobbying efforts can fix this. Until then I’ll need to drive around Alberta and Ontario.
PS: Can you explain that licensing requirement – isn’t that essentially any license?