Safety Pilot and Driver Assist features

[Doug]

I just read about Level 2 autonomy capability (https://tinyurl.com/4fmembx4) .

[anna-santos-de-dios]

Is the Safety Pilot upgrade the only way to get cruise control? I want this feature, but don’t care if it’s the adaptive version included with Safety Pilot, along with a number of other features that aren’t important to me. If all I want is basic cruise control, will it be included without Safety Pilot?

[mark-salyzyn]

Yes, basic cruise control in the base model.

[paul-schultz]

I assume the Aptera will come with a forward facing camera as standard whether or not a person adds Safety Pilot as part of their vehicle build. This would make sense as adding Safety Pilot could be a simple software update if purchased separately after manufacturer. With these assumptions then adaptive cruise control without the need for Safety Pilot would be trivial. The vast majority of manufacturers are going to VOACC, visual-only adaptive cruise control. The software and processing required are now cost-effective and simpler than adding a separate forward radar device. So, ACC could, and should, be a standard feature as a minimum IMO.

Paul

[john-malcom]

Only standard cruise control will come without safety pilot.

[IA-1]

I don’t need the “Level 2 Safety Pilot”, but it would be nice for me to have the Lane Keeping & Emergency Braking features. Any info if these can be ordered separately in the future? Currently there is no option to do that on the Aptera/ReserveUpgrades page and the full “Safety Pilot” option is $1,300. Thank you for any info.

[Carl_in_AZ]

Safety pilot includes “We will offer Safety Pilot with Level 2 autonomy capability, which includes facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise, and emergency braking.” according to line 115 from Aptera’s FAQ spreadsheet located at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11Of3g6RYqstbXecs7j2UHHd_b8s5MebxEs-ZwkyMiiQ/edit#gid=1847163171

[gary-greenway]

Right now, there’s only a wish list. After production begins, Aptera is likely to ship with whatever they have created so far with applicable hardware pre-installed for high priority features. New software features can be added over the air as they develop them.

[IA-1]

As per the Aptera reservation page the cost for the Safety Pilot will be $1,300:

“Travel is easy as Aptera drives itself to your location with Level 2 autonomy capability, which includes facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise, and emergency braking.”

I have included the Safety Pilot in my reservation, I just hope they will include lane change warning, if there is a vehicle next to you. I don’t need anything additional, and the price is right.

[boz-oclown]

I’m excited that Aptera is offering the Safety Pilot upgrade. Long trips should be a lot less monotonous with its facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise and emergency braking. It remains to be seen what it will and won’t do.

I’m thinking I may be allowed to set it and forget it on long Interstate highway travel. Personally I would have little interest in any other application.

I ordered the 400 mile version which, at 75 mph and with A/C, should give me about 220 or so miles between recharges (recharge to 80% and then run it down to 20%). Or a little over three hours of travel, then (I’m guessing) about 30 minutes on a DC fast charger at 50 kwh.

Call it wild speculation or an educated guess, but exciting.

• This reply was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by  Boz O'Clown. Reason: Add notifications of any replies
• This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[steven-g-bueche]

I’m not real sure if the safety pilot will be in the first run cars. They haven’t spoken much on it and have yet to fully explain some of the electronics. If fact they’re just now running the test Aptera to prove the solar capabilities. I know there are computer simulations but, the real world testing is still on going.

[kerbe2705]

I’m not certain why Aptera is including facial tracking as part of Safety Pilot. Level 2 autonomous systems aren’t “self-driving” – they combine Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Keep Assist. Most LKA systems won’t auto-negotiate more than a 10° turn, requiring the driver to steer the vehicle around the curve.

Unless, of course, they’re planning for Safety Pilot to be a “hands-free” system with the steering yoke having neither capacitive or acceleration sensors…

I do a great deal of Interstate driving and rely upon Honda’s Level 2 “Sensing Suite” in my Clarity PHEV to make the experience much more comfortable and stress-free. The only issue I have with vision-based LKA is that it stumbles when lane markings are indistinct, unclear or missing: In other words, it needs to see the painted lines – it can’t determine the difference between the edge of the road surface and the shoulder without them.

[john-malcom]

A lot of good discussion on this topic in this thread. I asked Aptera directly and this is the response I received:

Hi John!

Thanks for asking about this! We plan to offer Safety Pilot with Level 2 autonomy capability, which includes facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise, and emergency braking. We have not yet announced what will be available in the first production vehicles. Aptera is working towards a full self-driving model, although those capabilities will be released in stages. As we continue to move toward production, we will be sure to share this information with you on our website! Thank you for asking.

We are talking with several different partners about what form of autopilot we will use and we have some base hardware to work from now. The team is looking to make a decision after testing over the next few months. If you have any questions, please let me know!

What this says to me:

– Boiler plate for configuration tool for a description

– Haven’t picked a vendor yet still looking

– Not sure what (If any functionality) will be in first production

– They have some hardware which constrains the solution depending on what that hardware is

Implied message: don’t call us we will call you😉

[Cam]

Will Aperta be compatible with Comma.ai’s OPEN PILOT?

With both companies being from Southern California, I’m thinking it would be a great opportunity for both companies.

[john-malcom]

The answer is we don’t know.

Aptera has not chosen a Safety Pilot partner yet. We know that Aptera has made the decision that Safety Pilot will be camera based and that they have some hardware they will be assessing and working with during their process of vendor evaluation.

Deleted part of original post after examining their sight. The current SW is free. Open Pilot does require some additional hardware that would need to be modified to work in an Aptera. Possible candidate. Keep your fingers crossed?

• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by  John Malcom.
• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Restructured
• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by  John Malcom.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[trollfaced-hudagmail-com]

even if its not on, maybe comma ai can learn from human driving in aptera, it doesnt need to track location to learn. when self driving becomes a thing, if they can identify a political target in a car i wouldnt be suprised if they would do things to people, blame it on them wanting to drive manually bc distrust or he likes driving +drunk. other spyware could be checked for too.

[paul-schultz]

If the Aptera comes with lane keep assist, and has electronic steering _AND_ they allow access to the CAN bus without adding a security gateway to block access to some of the steering and braking CAN bus commands then yes. The comma hardware is not vehicle specific. A port of the OpenPilot software would need to be done with a tuning of the driving parameters (steering, braking) for the Aptera. The open-source community working on OpenPilot has supported many car makes/models.

I expect someone to port OpenPilot for the Aptera. Then, having comma hardware would be an alternative to purchasing Aptera’s Safety Pilot. As a reference, some Tesla owners opt to run comma/OP instead of buying the Tesla FSD. Yep, there is an OP port for Tesla.

The original iterations of the comma hardware, EON, EON Gold, and the comma2 were built using a Chinese cell phone (LeEco Le Pro 3). The current version of the hardware, comma3, is built using a complete in-house hardware design without a cell phone as a base. It has 2 forward-facing cameras and one fisheye 360 rearward facing camera. With one small internal device mounted at the center of the windshield, they achieve a 360 view around the vehicle.

The comma hardware simply has a mount at the center of the windshield. I expect an Aptera port to happen. I have 3 iterations of the comma hardware. I am currently using the comma3 in my Chevy Volt and have a 125-mile daily round-trip commute. It is amazing what comma.ai has accomplished considering they achieved an ‘above level 2 ADAS’ using a cell phone!

Paul

[Cam]

Thanks Paul, lots of good information. We own a Model Y and I wasn’t aware open pilot was compatible with Tesla.

[john-malcom]

I think the issue with comma3, the current version vs. Aptera will be the price. The comma3 hardware starts at $1999. Apteras’s safety pilot is priced around $1300 (Current pricing)

[paul-schultz]

comma.ai is currently working on another comma3 model with a reduced cost. They definitely went over the top on high-end components with the comma3, particularly the high-cost OLED display. The “comma 3S” as it has been dubbed will probably be competitive with the OEM cost of Safety Pilot. And, if comma2 level hardware is sufficient, there is Chinese clone hardware that gets OP running for ~$300-400 (Mr. One shop on Aliexpress). At this moment the function of OP on a comma2 is basically identical to the comma3.

comma.ai is continuing all OP development work with the comma3 platform. They will no longer be enhancing the functionality of the comma2. The comma2 doesn’t have the CPU power nor the 360 view that the c3 has. Any further OP enhancements beyond the current version will be focused on comma3 capabilities. So, the official comma2 branch of OP will only get minor bug fixes from this point forward. I suspect the open-source OP community will continue to provide some of the new features from future OP updates for the comma2 platform.

• This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by  Paul Schultz.

[konijntje]

According to the AMA, l2 functionality is not going to happen in the first production vehicles.

That’s really sad as l2 is nowadays basic functionality available on entry level cars. Distance-set cruise control, automatic parking, lane assist… These are then not happening anymore?

Watch this part of the AMA:

[jonathan-reni]

I think its possible that he was referring to the first 1,000 vehicles here.

[paul-schultz]

He only stated level 2 won’t be available at the initial launch. But, the Aptera may still have level 1 which can get you lane departure warning, lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control, and blind-spot warning systems. These level 1 systems are off-the-shelf at this point and are what many expect as the norm. The problem with the question is that it was asked about…. “level 2 autonomous driving”. This is a separate system from what is expected as a modern set of expected features. The question should have been: What level of Advanced Driver Assistance System will ship with a base Aptera?

[jonah-jorgenson]

Officially, only adaptive cruise control fits in level 1. Everything else you describe is part of level 2. Standard cruise control will come on Aptera.

• This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by  Jonah Jorgenson.
• This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by  Jonah Jorgenson.

[joshua-rosen]

I called this a month ago, I didn’t see how it would be possible to have an ADAS system in the car before the end of the year without having it working now. It’s not clear if they’ve settled on a vendor yet, my guess is no, if they had they would have announced it. Until they’ve settled on the vendor they can’t integrate the software or include the processor. If they settle on the vendor in the next couple of months they’ll be able to include the hardware in the early cars and then turn it on by the middle of next year when they have the software working.

[Sam]

Would a standard cruise control be included without this package?

[jonah-jorgenson]

Yes, standard cruise control comes with the Aptera.

[vernon-sinnott]

Will the Gamma vehicle have safety pilot installed and willl we get a demonstration video? Also, do we need to order it to get cruise control?Will the Gamma vehicle have safety pilot installed and willl we get a demonstration video? Also, do we need to order it to get cruise control?

[OZ.]

No Safety Pilot for the Gamma, or for the first production vehicles, but IIRC Aptera has said that it should be available and distributed as an OTA update, indicating that the hardware will be there.

[john-malcom]

Standard cruise control will come Standard with the production Aptere. Safety Pilot will come as an over the air update sometime after delivery.

[vernon-sinnott]

Since the “Safety Pilot” will be a software update would it be possible to add that after delivery, when it becomes available?

[curtis-cibinel]

Very likely cameras, radar or processing hardware needed. The infotainment system probably doesn’t have the processing power needed (especially if 100% vision). I doubt it will be possible to implement it for existing first gen vehicles as a simple software update

[old-boot]

I sent that question into Aptera support. I am asking for AWD and the off-road upgrade.I want Safety Pilot as well to make my cross country drive a little easier and safer. I’m hoping that by the time they get to AWD, off-road Apterae Safety Pilot will be available as well.