Driving Dynamics

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Driving Dynamics

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Driving Dynamics

  • Driving Dynamics

  • Boz O’Clown

    Member
    April 25, 2022 at 12:47 pm

    I’m taking a wait-and-see approach on many aspects of the production Aptera. But my biggest concern is the driving dynamics.

    I learned to drive in an old American, two ton sedan. It was great and I eventually learned to drive it fast. Then I discovered the VW bug. What a difference. It was so maneuverable. It communicated to me. It was so easy to drive and easy to drive at its limits. Very “sporty”. Eventually I started driving BMWs and Porsches which were the best and I loved their dynamics.

    Which brings me back to the Aptera. How will it drive? How well will it communicate with me. Like a Porsche or a BMW sport sedan?… Or a Pinto? Time will tell.

    If Aptera gets it right, then they (and we) will start down a great, long, interesting path. Otherwise it will die faster than a Vega.

    • This discussion was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by  Boz O'Clown. Reason: Add notification of replies
  • Gary Greenway

    Member
    April 25, 2022 at 4:04 pm

    Die faster than a Vega? Those are tough shoes to fill. The body had holes and the engine was lucky to be running at 75,000 miles.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    April 25, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    The Chevy Vega took two years to design and was in production from 1970 through 1977. All told, 2,006,661 of them were produced. In 1971, it was Motor Trend’s “Car of the Year”.

    If you watch any of the several excellent “ride-along” videos from journalists who’ve had the chance to experience the Beta prototype you’ll find that every one of them speaks of how balanced and well-planted it seems to be – even though it’s just a test “mule”. Steve Lee says of his experience that if felt like being in a sports car – tight and controlled. I think we’ve nothing to worry about.

    • Boz O’Clown

      Member
      April 25, 2022 at 10:21 pm

      Thank you for your reply. It’s comforting to hear of the favorable impressions from those ride-alongs.

      My first exposure was when Jay Leno previewed and drove the Alpha prototype for his YouTube channel. What was bothersome was he had nothing to say of the driving dynamics. He said it was comfortable and peppy. I’m more interested in how well it rides and handles.

      Oh well. Time will tell.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        April 25, 2022 at 10:24 pm

        Seriously: Check out the videos from “Aptera Owners Club” and “Transport Evolved” on YouTube. There’s also a more light-hearted video from “Rich Rebuilds”.

    • Vernon Michael Gardner

      Member
      April 25, 2022 at 11:54 pm

      Cosworth Vega, first production American car to have a dual overhead cam 4 cylinder. Too bad it was so detuned, it was not as good as it could have been.

    • Steven G. Bueche

      Member
      April 26, 2022 at 2:55 am

      All of these ride a

      longs are from a passenger perspective. Let’s see someone else drive it besides the owners and technicians.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        April 26, 2022 at 8:24 am

        We’re not going to see that until late in the development phase: If you watch the prelaunch videos from Lucid and Rivian you’ll not see “outsiders” driving until just before production began. It’s mostly a liability issue. Plus, where’s the benefit to the company of having random people talk about their experience with an incomplete, unfinished product? Note how tepid Jay Leno’s remarks were about driving the Alpha…

      • Boz O’Clown

        Member
        April 27, 2022 at 12:38 pm

        Here here.

        Jay Leno drove it and had nothing to say about its dynamics… And he knows dynamics.

  • Jeffrey Parker

    Member
    April 25, 2022 at 5:32 pm

    I’ve read that the Polaris Slingshot is similar to a Miata and motorcycle cross. I’d imagine that the Aptera at 2200 lbs and 3.5sec or 5.5sec vs the Miata at 5.8sec and the Slingshot at 5.6sec.

    I love my Miata and I can’t wait to add the Aptera to my stable.

    • Boz O’Clown

      Member
      April 25, 2022 at 9:31 pm

      You and me both, Jeff. I’ve had my ’92 Miata since new and will be adding my Aptera. I may have to let my V6 Venza go (20 mpg, yuck). BTW, I had a ’65 911 decades ago. Not much faster than my MIata.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      May 12, 2022 at 7:45 pm

      I’ve had my Miata since July 16, 1989 so it will be interesting to compare the two. The only problem I foresee is the Aptera is larger (length & width) than the Miata or my Jetta wagon so it won’t fit in the garage with either of them. Thus it will have to be parked outside.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    April 25, 2022 at 5:54 pm

    You should seek the first opportunity for an Aptera driving experience. As the vehicle roles out of production there should be many opportunities locally with early reservation holders when they get their vehicles and or public showings.

    Certainly can’t promise handling like a Porche but I think you will be pleasantly surprised and it will cost a mountain of money less to maintain.

    And you will redeem yourself with the Environment😁

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      April 25, 2022 at 10:50 pm

      From their track testing with beta it looks like they were doing moose (iso double lane change) tests at about 48 mph (I counted frames and another person noticed the speedometer angle vs another shot that showed the number at the same). Apparently the porche macan seems to be failing at the base 43.5mph run due to aggressive anti-roll software. So based on this data point it would appear Aptera may handle better than a porche based on a standardized test 🤣. https://teknikensvarld.expressen.se/nyheter/bil-och-trafik/porsche-macan-behaves-strangely-in-the-moose-test-162276/

      Ps: yes I realize most people assume your talking about a porche 911 but I couldn’t find its moose test results. 48 mph would put Aptera ahead of the vast majority of vehicles. The only other porche I could find results for is an 04 996 gt2 which managed 50 mph.

      Pss: here is a fun video for 💩 and 🤭s. https://youtu.be/qIN8CyhYREM

      • Paul Kirchner

        Member
        April 26, 2022 at 3:27 pm

        In the vid at 1:09 mark, he’s been filmed doing the moose test, his hands never leave the wheel, could’ve just as likely to have been a yoke. 180 one way, 180 the other way.

        Just an observation, this whole thought that you shouldn’t cross your arms during emergency maneuvers….

  • George Hughes

    Member
    April 25, 2022 at 11:56 pm

    Judging from the posts here from long- timers, no one wants to over-promise the dynamic excellence we all hope for with Aptera.

    Among the things that should build confidence is the participation of Roush Engineering on the suspension of this vehicle which has been, at least on occasion, referred to as a roadster.

    Further, the videos at the test track with the moose maneuver also work to inspire confidence along with the independent reports of the together suspension of the Beta ‘mule.’

    Are these guarantees? Nope, but I think it clear the intent of those designing and making the Aptera is to meet a high-bar in this respect.

    From my perspective, the difference electrification has already made over their ICE-powered stablemates – think the Volt over its sister model and the Spark EV over the regular Spark. I can state categorically the EV is a wholly different and better beast than than the underpowered, four-banger, especially with the automatic. The vastly improved dynamics come from the location of the vehicle battery and ample increase in power, both elemental aspects of the Aptera.

    • Boz O’Clown

      Member
      April 26, 2022 at 5:30 am

      Yep. Light weight, wide stance, low center of gravity and Roush engineering makes this very promising. If they get it right, I won’t be that surprised, but I’ll be very happy. I have my fingers and toes crossed. Thanks for the input.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      April 26, 2022 at 7:00 am

      I’m hoping it has a tight turning radius. The car is capable of torque vectoring but I doubt they’ll have that out the door put hopefully soon after in an OTA, that should help. I’ve been disappointed in the turning radius in the Model 3, it’s a lot wider than I would expect in a mid sized car. The car with a surprisingly small radius was my old Chrysler 300C, it was a giant sedan but it had a remarkably tight turning radius. It was better in parking garages than my Tesla.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        April 26, 2022 at 8:20 am

        Without a steerable rear wheel I doubt that Aptera will have a very tight turning radius.

      • Paul Schultz

        Member
        April 26, 2022 at 3:18 pm

        Torque vectoring should be an out-the-door feature. It is a feature already available in the Elaphe software which I would think Aptera is using as its base. Elaphe doesn’t just make motors. They also make other major components such as controllers, firmware, etc. to integrate them into an OEM vendor’s vehicle.

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          May 12, 2022 at 9:49 pm

          Aptera has said that they weren’t planning to use the Elaphe controllers…

      • John Malcom

        Member
        April 26, 2022 at 6:00 pm

        Agree with kerbe2705 and Paul. There is nothing to suggest that torque vectoring will not be a part of initial production Aptere.

        Torque vectoring is a major feature of Aptera design and will be a part of the initial production vehicles. There is no engineering reason for this not to be so. Elaphe has the fundamentals of torque vectoring down. Aptera references to its implementation are frequent. The main Aptera arguments about handling safely in snow and ice are based on implementation of torque vectoring. I doubt that the handling demonstrated during Moose Testing during suspension testing could have been accomplished without Torque vectoring. The same for the implementation of a simplified electric power steering assist.

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    May 12, 2022 at 7:06 pm

    eco mode in some cars seems to be for effeincy for people who dont know or care how to drive econmically, computer does guess work assuming driver pushes pedal quickly to speed up quickly then doesnt keep foot steady from being bored, non attentive to driving, so his pedal position changes unconsciously for no reason.

    How to drove efficiently for lower tire, brake, oils, fuel cost: speeding up and slowing down at a non quick rate and maintaining momentum. When go downhill, speed up more so you can build up higher speed at slower rate vs if you did so at a uphill or flat road.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      May 13, 2022 at 6:50 am

      I’d much rather they gamify efficiency than have an eco-mode. Display the Wh per mile and have red-green bars that show your driving efficiency and regen levels. The Volt did a good job of this, Tesla has an energy screen which while useful can’t really be used in realtime because it takes up the full display. Tesla used to have odometer widgets that displayed the Wh/mile but they deleted them which was an unfortunate choice.

      • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

        Member
        May 13, 2022 at 1:08 pm

        i think a pedal position recommendation as a light bar moving would help, for example how much brake pedal pressing to do to slow down with minimal brake wear according to distance between car and cars behind and up front. another consideration is tire wear levels by simulation given g forces (g force meter would allow non driving enthusiast drivers to know where grip limit is so he can maintain momentum instead of braking and speeding up, which means longer battery life and better effiency.) or it calculates tire wear by speed and steering wheel angle history. cars usually have outside temperature measures do, which also helps know tire tempurature. temp affects tire grip level per amount of tire wear including tire air pressure.

        a such a thing for gas pedal would consider road elevation changes, like applying more power when at a downhill and maintaining that momentum, without accidently going too far above speed limit so you dont have to slow down

        steady slow steering is something that doesnt need assistence, it is to minimize tire wear

        a reminder of “how to drive effceintly” as i said every time the car turns on, include “steer slowly” as i mentioned here

      • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

        Member
        May 13, 2022 at 3:02 pm

        a eco drive mode might still be helpful for drivers who are too lazy to follow a single light bar on a tinted HUD near drivers forward looking line of sight.

        laziness already happens today as people stressing out more from changing focus from their phones texting to audio playing to driving etc, i’ve seen many women switch tasks from driving to doing their makeup garbage.

        i think despite new world laziness, enough people will use the gamification over the lazy person eco mode, after all aptera is a effiency car and people who dont care about efficiency probably would have brought other 2 seater cars. itll be easy to use, interface is simple overall: besides the light bar would be would be estimated miles of driving range left and a speedometer number, maybe small parts damage warning lights although that can be on the infotainment screen always appearing at a tab on bottom of screen, which flashes a bold attractive light to remind user every time car stops or starts engine.

        more entertaining focused driving will make people stress less and focus on safety more, given entertainment from switching lot of ones focus to phone etc is not reliably very entertaining (social media algorithms use “intermittent reinforcement” conditioning to maintain addiction to product, which means content shown to person is attractive once in a while not always). driving is made more interactive by higher physical feedback from steering wheel and chassis making cars movement felt more(make driver more connectied to car by , and encouraging hypermiling technique as i described. for people who drive where roads that move left right up and down more, they will use gamification over eco mode more bc there is more to do in gamification. less power steering can save energy too, but some will not buy the car without it (old disabled people, stressed people who dont want to play with the gamification, etc), so ideally power assist can be switched on and off. another part of driving fun is engine sound being direct consequence of drivers actions, correlating with stuff driver pays attention to like cars movement. downloadable harmonious sounds could give part of what makes gmat50 v12 or lfa v10 sound good inside car. it dont have to be as much loud surround sound with correlation of some seat and steering wheel vibration from engine, but it would mean better efficiency despite energy cost of making sound if it makes the difference between driver using gamification over eco mode, for safer more efficient driving and more joy associated with the car and brand, which they express on social media (marketing).

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