Escaping an Aptera

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Escaping an Aptera

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Escaping an Aptera

  • Escaping an Aptera

     GLENN ZAJIC updated 2 weeks, 6 days ago 9 Members · 19 Posts
  • P M

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 7:42 pm

    Aptera has opted for NMC battery cells rather than LFP to gain the added efficiency of a lighter battery (NMC has higher gravimetric energy density). Unfortunately, NMC cells have a lower thermal runaway temperature, making it more likely that a cell fire will spread to the entire battery. This could occur in a collision or due to a deffetive cell or a mismanaged battery pack. I would like to see the Aptera battery certified to UL9540A standards against thermal runaway. Either way, I’d like to be able to escape through the window if I cannot open the door. This brings up some questions:

    1. Can we fit through the open side window?

    2. Will the side windows be laminated glass or tempered glass? Laminated glass is much harder to break through.

    Laminated glass has been increasing in popularity because it is much better at keeping people inside the vehicle. I think the window bar and the seatbelt will keep us inside. I’m more worried about getting out.

    • This discussion was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by  P M. Reason: added deffective cell
  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 7:54 pm

    Thermal runways for 2170 is quite rare but I definitely see the concern in a rollover. Personally I’d gladly take a little efficiency hit for all the other benefits of lfp. It should definitely be possible to use lfp in the 400m and smaller and hopefully they will make this transition eventually. When work started on the aptera lfp wasn’t achieving nearly the current density. This thread also examined the safety in rollover . https://aptera.us/community/discussion/doors-during-accident/#post-22660

    Doors during Accident

    • P M

      Member
      June 7, 2022 at 8:16 pm

      Yes, I am also willing to sacrifice a little more rolling resistance for the added safety and increased cycle life of LFP cells. An added bonus would be the lack of cobalt and where to source it.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 10:29 pm

    At present, LFP cells are not available in cylindrical formats: They are most frequently prismatic format and, therefore, much larger than 2170 cells.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 7, 2022 at 11:19 pm

      No need to use cylendrical cells. Blocks of 2170s result in big rectangles that can just as easily be prismatic lfp cells. Chris even seemed open to the idea of lfp in all ambassitor call a few months ago. They need to get to market and that will be 2170 but once they do they will likely evaluate the cost/benefit of a transition. Very likely many 600 more buyers could be satisfied with 400 if they can charge to 100% without stress over degradation. Lfp are cheaper and given an the body can fit the massive 1000 mile battery it should easy to fit lfp for the 400 and maybe even 600 mile ranges. Switching to lfp will likely cost millions in development but if it saves over $1000 per vehicle and provides a better product it should be justified long term.

      • P M

        Member
        June 8, 2022 at 3:28 pm

        I’d certainly prefer a 400-mile range Aptera with LFP batteries if they receive a UL9540A certificate against thermal runaway.

  • Scott Price

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 11:38 pm

    To answer your original first question: Looking at the prototype videos and photos, it is likely possible to get out of the current unfortunate slot window design for someone who is very nimble, thin, and able to contort around inside the cabin to form a full body plank before squeezing through the slot with arms overhead. It would be difficult, and it would not allow heavier adults through. Your more likely escape mechanism may be to lay back on the console and passenger seat to slam the mid-window frame with the force of your leg muscles through the bottom of your shoes/feet until all the various constricting window and frame pieces broke away (if possible) and it then all opened up like a normal full window space.

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    June 8, 2022 at 1:09 am

    Or you could skip the drama and just crawl into the hatch space and open the hatch. Internal hatch/trunk releases have been legally required since 2001.

  • Len Nowak Nowak

    Moderator
    June 8, 2022 at 5:09 am

    They have said they will have convention auto glass.

    I carry a auto glass breaking tool with seatbelt cutter in ALL my vehicles?

    Yes their are two doors and a hatch that open. They have said the doors will have an internal release

    Pretty good for an “autocycle”

    I “personally” would not want an open autocycle

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • P M

      Member
      June 8, 2022 at 3:14 pm

      That glass breaker will work on tempered glass, but not on laminated glass. I don’t know which “conventional glass” Aptera will use.

      On the plus side, an Aptera is less likely to have the doors jammed because the composite should return back to its original shape, rather than stay deformed like metal car shells.

  • John Voules

    Member
    June 8, 2022 at 1:40 pm

    I guess getting out of side window would really have more to do with your size. My thinking is most Americans wouldn’t be able to fit through a regular size window opening. In most cases it is better that you have a body structure with a door that withstands deformation whether from heat or collision so the door can be opened.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 9, 2022 at 8:57 am

      Probably a longshot but I wish they would make this an option – concept by peter. A simple non-rollable double window with amazing views, better aerodynamics, probably way cheaper to make and easy hammer escape. Opening the door and taking a half step for drivethroughs is just not that big of deal (and will likely be needed anyway if your positioning isnt perfect)

      • Scott Price

        Member
        June 10, 2022 at 9:29 pm

        I’ll be right behind you in line ordering that hopeful option, Curtis!

  • GLENN ZAJIC

    Member
    June 9, 2022 at 8:50 am

    I wonder where the natural resting place would be in a overturned Aptera. Might depend on battery choice. Looks like it would tend to be on front of hood/windshield and wheel pants. Not sure how far open you could get a door, but hatch should allow for escape in that situation. With a larger battery I could even see it rocking a little as you climbed on to the hatch glass, then rocking back when you released the hatch, kinda dumping you out. This may become more obvious after crash tests are revealed.

  • Llewellyn Evans Evans

    Member
    June 9, 2022 at 7:04 pm

    Upside down aptera scale model escape. 60:40 weigh balance towards front. Getting out the front doors looks easy with almost no force needed. Getting out the back door is a case of release the hatch and crawl out.

    Escape is not a problem.

    1:11

    20220610_115756

    1:11

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 9, 2022 at 7:48 pm

      I used much the same approach (with some taped coins for weight) in evaluating my opinions for the linked thread. Getting the aptera to end up turtle would take quite a lot (far more likely to flat spin like most EV). Ending up on its side held by the rear wheel, tail and one front wheel is the most likely possibility.

      • GLENN ZAJIC

        Member
        June 11, 2022 at 8:07 am

        I think if I caused my tadpole to turtle I would cry crocodile tears!

    • GLENN ZAJIC

      Member
      June 10, 2022 at 10:59 am

      First off, I like your model!

      The doors open upwards (downwards if you are flipped). Your weight will be on the ceiling holding the vehicle a little tilted to that side. I do not believe it will be an ‘easy’ escape with no force needed. The door needs some room to pivot upwards. I don’t know how far it would open before the ground prevents it from opening further. Time will tell! I also think it will be a vary rarely encountered situation and I am not worried about it.

      • This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by  GLENN ZAJIC.
      • Llewellyn Evans Evans

        Member
        June 10, 2022 at 3:36 pm

        Hi Glenn.

        Thanks for the feedback.

        You could right on all those points. 🙂

        Some time ago I watched doors opening on Alpha vehicles in various videos on Youtube. It looked like the doors opened part way before the door hit the ground. (close to the plane of the plane hinge)

        My logic for saying that escape would be easy was that the door would be easy to open because … the weight of the door + force from gas struts + person pushing on it and the door acting as a fulcrum to roll the car away from the door.

        I agree it looks very hard to flip on any flat surface.

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