EV Rebates in Canada / Information …

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions EV Rebates in Canada / Information …

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions EV Rebates in Canada / Information …

  • EV Rebates in Canada / Information …

     Brent D. updated 2 days ago 4 Members · 20 Posts
  • Brent D.

    Member
    May 14, 2022 at 6:59 pm

    Just some information with regard to current EV rebates in Canada and how they relate to Aptera.

    Unfortunately, because the Aptera has 3 wheels, it will not qualify for an EV rebate (in Canada) as the iZEV program is currently restricted to vehicles with 4 wheels (I know, ridiculous). Below is a statement I received from the Zero-Emission Vehicles iZEV program on 11-May-2022:

    ——————–

    Zero-Emission Vehicles iZEV / Incitatifs pour l’achat de véhicules zéro émission iVZE (TC):

    The overall objective of the iZEV program is to contribute to a clean transportation system by increasing the adoption of affordable zero-emission vehicles in Canada. The program’s vehicle price caps have been expanded to include more zero-emission vehicles to continue to contribute to clean transportation system.

    Can additional vehicles be added to the list of eligible vehicles?

    Yes. Automakers can apply to Transport Canada to have specific makes and models added to the list of eligible vehicles. We will then review the application to make sure the vehicle is eligible for the iZEV Program before adding it to the list.

    NEW! The Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) has increased to $55,000 for base model passenger cars with higher trims of up to $65,000. The MSRP has increased to $60,000 for base models of station wagons, pickup trucks (light trucks), sport utility vehicles (SUVs), minivans, vans, and special purpose vehicles with higher trims up to $70,000.

    What vehicles are eligible?

    • a passenger car, where the base model Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is less than $55,000; an
    • higher priced trims of these vehicles, up to a maximum MSRP of $65,000, will also be eligible for purchase incentives;

    Or

    • a station wagon, pickup truck (light truck), sport utility vehicle (SUV), minivan, van, or special purpose vehicle, where the base model Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is less than $60,000; and
    • higher priced trims of these vehicles, up to a maximum MSRP of $70,000, will also be eligible for purchase incentives.


    Please note that all eligible vehicles under the iZEV program are listed on the list of eligible vehicles below:

    List of eligible vehicles under the iZEV Program (canada.ca):

    For more information on the program and it’s eligibility requirements, please visit the webpage below:

    https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles

    Zero-emission vehicles (canada.ca) Contact:

    iZEV Program / Programme iVZE

    Email: iZEV-iVZE@tc.gc.ca

    Phone: 1-800-OCanada (1-800-622-6232) / TTY: 1-800-926-9105

    canada.ca/zero-emission-vehicles / canada.ca/vehicules-zero-emission

    ——————–

    Just some thoughts:

    1. It may be wise for Aptera corporate (and those that have made a reservation here in Canada) to contact the above to show support for Aptera and ask that the Aptera be included in the EV rebate list.
    2. It would also be prudent to petition the government of Canada, specifically provincial DOT (Department of Transportation) to re-classify the Aptera as something other than a motorcycle or motorized tri-cycle (as is the case in Alberta, and probably several other provinces). If not, then we will be required to wear a helmet and obtain a motorcycle license (at least, that is what would be required in Alberta)!

    Would love to see an Aptera on Canadian roads.

  • Randy J

    Member
    July 3, 2022 at 5:03 am

    I followed your suggestion and received this reply:

    Hello,

    Thank you for your email.

    It is our pleasure to inform you that on March 31, 2022, $1.7 billion in additional funding was announced by the Government of Canada for the extension and expansion of the Incentives for Zero-Emission Vehicles (iZEV) Program until March 31, 2025 (subject to funding availability). The new program parameters take effect on April 25, 2022.

    Consumers: We encourage you to visit our Frequently Asked Questions webpage for consumers as they have been updated with regards to the expansion of the program.

    Dealerships: We encourage you to visit our Frequently Asked Questions webpage as they have been updated with regards to the expansion of the iZEV Program. A reminder that the Program only accepts the most recent versions of both the Consumer Consent form and the Incentive Received form.

    If you are a dealership, please note that the Incentives for Zero-Emission Vehicles Program (iZEV Program) continues to process claim applications on a first-come, first-served basis. We are currently processing claims received the week of May 27, 2022.

    To view the status of any of your claims, we encourage you to log into your account and go to the “My Claims” tab to view the status of claims submitted.

    · For claims with a status of “Information required”, please check your email (including junk mail) as an email has been sent to you with details of missing documentation and/or information, as well as instructions on how to submit this required documents/information. You can search for these emails by Service Request Number and/or VIN.

    · For requests with a status that has been “completed” for more than 5 business days, you can send an email containing the Service Request Number and we will follow up on any delays in payment.

    If you have received a payment and inquiring on payment details, please contact tcpayments-paiementstc@tc.gc.<wbr>ca

    Note that we continue to receive a very high volume of emails, which has caused a delay in responding to emails addressed to the iZEV program inbox. Our goal is to provide a response within 10 business days. We therefore rely on your patience and ask that you refrain from sending multiple requests on the same subject to help us achieve this goal.

    Thank you,

    iZEV Program / Programme iVZE

    iZEV-iVZE@tc.gc.ca

    • Brent D.

      Member
      July 3, 2022 at 3:09 pm

      Hi Randy,

      That is exactly the (form / canned) response I received when I sent my inquires as well. Bob Kirchner is correct, if the request is coming from the public, then the person(s) to contact would be your MP — and they in turn can make further inquiries up the food chain – for what it is worth.

      In my correspondence with the Alberta DOT (Department of Transportation), they mentioned that Aptera (the company) would need to submit “the necessary paperwork” to the government that shows it meets provincial standards; however, the provincial standard is that any 3-wheeled vehicle is currently classified as a motorcycle (at least in Alberta). The whole issue is a mess and as usual our forward thinking government is nearly a decade behind any current technologies.

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        July 3, 2022 at 4:18 pm

        Hi Brent:

        I’m glad you got my comment. It doesn’t show up when I log into this thread. Any idea what’s up with that?

        • Bob Kirchner

          Member
          July 3, 2022 at 4:18 pm

          Fortunately this one DID show up.

        • Brent D.

          Member
          July 4, 2022 at 7:05 am

          Hi Bob – I received your comment via email and noticed it was not present in the forum – no idea why; must be a software bug.

          • Bob Kirchner

            Member
            July 4, 2022 at 8:10 am

            Okay, I’ll try again, incase someone else finds it useful.

            Civil servants are beholden to legislation when forming regulations. It might be the case that the redefinition of the eligible vehicles is in the legislation, and out of their hands, in which case the answer is legislative.

            I recommend contacting your MP’s constituency office to try to find out at what level the responsibility for defining eligible vehicles lies, and if it is not at the legislative level, to whom to address your inquiries.

            If they definition is legislative, the person to whom to make a plea for change is, of course, your MP. You can also make a plea to party leaders who you think might be receptive, environment critics, or party policy staff.

            If the definition is administrative the trick is to get the question about changing the definition to the highest level possible, which is why you asked your MP who that is.

            You can also ask your MP to make an inquiry on your behalf. If Aptera’s goals don’t align with your MP’s politics, expect a polite refusal that doesn’t actually admit that they are refusing. If however your MP agrees to make the inquiry, your MP will get a more responsive response than than these boilerplate non-responses. Civil servants are required by law to give substantive answers to questions brought to them by the peoples’ representatives.

            The public-facing civil servants that are tasked with responding to basic inquiries don’t really have the authority to push information about the public’s queries, or requests for action up the food chain. In fact the nature of these responses makes me suspect that the whole process has been automated through some sort of key word recognition. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

  • Randy J

    Member
    July 4, 2022 at 1:38 pm

    Do we have a CND ambassador following this thread and topic? Perhaps they can confirm Aptera is aware of the situation and is taking action as per this response I received a few minutes ago from a real person:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Hello,

    The manufacturer would have to apply to the program.

    Thank you,

    iZEV Program / Programme iVZE

    iZEV-iVZE@tc.gc.ca

    Phone: 1-800-OCanada (1-800-622-6232) / TTY: 1-800-926-9105

    canada.ca/zero-emission-<wbr>vehicles / canada.ca/vehicules-zero-<wbr>emission

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    • Brent D.

      Member
      July 4, 2022 at 2:04 pm

      Hi Randy,

      This is almost exactly the same reply I received when I emailed the government of Canada back in May — see my posts in this topic: https://aptera.us/community/discussion/on-purchase-wait-lit-but-in-canada/

      Not sure if there is a Canadian ambassador — or where to find a list of ambassadors — if someone knows, post a link.

      • This reply was modified 2 days, 1 hour ago by  Brent D..

      On purchase wait lit but in Canada?

      • Randy J

        Member
        July 4, 2022 at 2:16 pm

        Hi Brent

        As EV buyers it’s not up to us to make it happen. It’s up to Aptera. Yes, there are CDN ambassadors. Not sure how many.

        But again, it’s not up to them, its up to Aptera to apply. This kind of incentive wasn’t really part of my expectations. If it happens it’ll be a bonus.

        • Brent D.

          Member
          July 4, 2022 at 2:28 pm

          Correct (Aptera corporate will need to supply the paperwork to the government) – as per my post(s) back in May.

          However, we as Canadian citizens CAN (and should) petition our MPs to in order to change the legislation of the government – specifically:

          a) That 3-wheeled EVs are classified as motorcycles in most provinces (driver and passengers will require a helmet; driver will require a motorcycle license).

          b) That 3-wheeled EVs should be able to participate in the iZEV program (currently only 4 wheeled vehicles can).

          • This reply was modified 2 days, 1 hour ago by  Brent D..
      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        July 4, 2022 at 2:41 pm

        Canada Definitely has an ambassador to the U.S., but they would be so high up the food chain that they wouldn’t want to deal with an issue like this.

        Also bear in mind that if the definition of eligible vehicles is in the legislation, it wouldn’t be appropriate for a Global Affairs to try to change it.

        If on the other hand the legislation empowers a government agency to determine eligibility rules, then your closest regional Canadian Consulate might be an appropriate contact, as part of their remit is promoting trade (though mostly from the perspective of Canada selling to the U.S.).

        If there was a likelihood that Aptera was going to establish an assembly facility in Canada (JOBS!!!) they might be really interested, but only someone from Aptera could make that pitch with any credibility.

        There are Canadian Consulates in 12 U.S. cities.

        https://www.international.gc.ca/country-pays/us-eu/index.aspx?lang=eng

        From the other side of the fence, there are Seven U.S. consulates in Canada.

        https://ca.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/https://ca.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/

        They would have an interest in promoting the ability of an American company to sell product in Canada, but cannot legitimately deal directly with a Canadian government agency. They would have to work through their Canadian diplomatic contacts.

        • Randy J

          Member
          July 4, 2022 at 2:53 pm

          Hi Bob

          I was referring to the “Aptera Brand Ambassadors”. They’re now in several countries including Canada.

          • Bob Kirchner

            Member
            July 4, 2022 at 3:14 pm

            I feel like Emily Litella.

            • Randy J

              Member
              July 4, 2022 at 3:27 pm

              ha ha good one. Nevermind!

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    July 4, 2022 at 2:47 pm

    Realistically I think anyone buying an Aptera should budget with the expectation of getting little or no government incentives. In canada some small emotorcycle rebates might be possible but iZev is definitely not realistic.

    As to motorcycle/helmet/license requirements my understanding is that alberta requires a motorcycle license but no helmet and ontario is a helmet but no special license. If anyone has specific resources for contacting MPs and would like to draft a form letter that would be super useful for the community.

    Here is my original writeup from another thread: https://aptera.us/community/discussion/state-of-incentives-in-canada/#post-13467

    Note: I know that incentives can potentially get into political debate. I will try to stick to facts but do apologize if anyone feels I’m crossing that line.

    I’m starting this thread to discuss the current incentives in Canada ???????? and how they relate to Aptera. It’s great to see progress being made with the terribly named Build Back Better Act potentially providing a $7500 USD incentive. Information for 2-3 wheel vehicles is less common than traditional EVs so I figured getting everyone clear on the state of things first would help. Hopefully we can put together some templates and contact information for representatives so we can push for change. It makes no sense for a Chevy Bolt to have a $13k CAD incentive when Aptera in most provinces gets $0. Aptera shouldn’t be forced into a major market disadvantage due to flawed legislation. Downsizing to a motorcycle or an Aptera is way more efficient and when the programs exclude them it is bad for Aptera, the free market, and overall energy use.

    Federal Program:

    Our federal IZEV program (incentive for zero emission vehicles) completely ignored 2 and 3 wheeled vehicles.

    No, 2-wheeled vehicles, like motorcycles or e-bikes, are not eligible.

    The iZEV Program was created to reduce emissions from cars and light trucks, which produce about 50% of transportation-related greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. With this goal in mind, the Program requires vehicles to have at least four functioning wheels and be highway capable, intended for use on public streets, roads, and highways, and meet all Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards in order to receive an incentive.

    Provincial (aka state) Programs:

    Most provinces have EV incentive programs but they are limited to 4 wheeled vehicles. The CEV (clean energy vehicle) for BC (my province) is also 4 wheels only and most provinces have equivalents. The only provinces with “electric motorcycle” programs are BC (SUVI – Special Use Vehicle Incentive) and Quebec (New Vehicle Rebate / Programme Rabais Vehicule Neuf). These programs are nearly identical and provide $2000. Most existing vehicles under these programs are low speed scooters under $10k.

    Extra Hoops:
    Most or all programs in canada have two key requirements. The vehicle must be sold and initially registered in canada. Tesla gets around this by selling the vehicle in CAD with related taxes and delivering in Canada. This will be very tricky for Aptera in the early stages since it is a business logistics requirement. Due to costs and extra challenges in other markets (ie shipping, road width, driving sides, charge ports) I would be very surprised if Canada isn’t Aptera’s 2nd largest market initially so I would hope they can address these things within the first few years of shipping units.

    Note: For a laugh check out the Tesla site in the canadian locale (https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/model3). One of the provinces has a low price ceiling in the incentive program so tesla needs to offer a sub $50k CAD option which noone will every buy since its limited to less than 100 miles. As long as this low trim exists on menu (not special order) they were eligible. This kind of shenanigans will be tricky for Aptera to do with less legal and business logistics resources.

    State of incentives in Canada

    • Brent D.

      Member
      July 4, 2022 at 3:00 pm

      Agreed – everything and anything should be done to get the Aptera on any rebate list; it is just good business and common sense (although, whenever I use the phrase “common sense”, that tends to exclude any government agency).

      FYI – In Alberta, the driver and passenger(s) will require helmets and the driver will require a motorcycle license (I checked back in early May with the Alberta government – department of transportation).

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        July 4, 2022 at 3:23 pm

        FYI looks like PEI, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia all want motorcycle licenses (in addition to Alberta). Helmets is a whole different question (which is hard to find) but for information on license requirements the Polaris Slingshot community is relevant for Aptera. I did check and because BC (my home province) has a more reasonable classification and doesn’t consider it a motorcycle I cant use the Aptera to get a motorcycle license and travel in Alberta (I would need to borrow a real motorcycle which is a huge PITA)

        Canada: https://slingshot.polaris.com/en-ca/license-requirements/

        USA: https://slingshot.polaris.com/en-us/license-requirements/

        • This reply was modified 2 days ago by  Curtis Cibinel. Reason: Added US state map for licenses
  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    July 4, 2022 at 3:38 pm

    Regarding helmets I found the following for the US related to lobbying by the Elio community; Resources for canada are far harder to find.
    Note: The ElectroMecanica Solo community is currently shipping units and is similarly an enclosed autocycle impacted by the same rules; resources for these rules may be somewhere to find on forums or sites for them.
    https://www.thedrive.com/motorcycles/19994/should-helmets-be-required-on-three-wheelers

    As of January 2018, Elio reports that only three states—Alaska, Maine, and New York—still require a motorcycle license to operate an autocycle. Additionally, only Maine’s partial helmet law, requiring helmets for occupants below the age of 18, applies to the Elio. No helmets are required in the other 49 states, regardless of regular motorcycle helmet laws.

    • This reply was modified 8 hours, 34 minutes ago by  bbelcamino.
    • Brent D.

      Member
      July 4, 2022 at 3:45 pm

      Good info! Sounds like the U.S. is moving much faster than we are (in Canada).

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