EV Tax Credit

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions EV Tax Credit

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions EV Tax Credit

  • EV Tax Credit

     Joshua Rosen updated 2 months, 1 week ago 15 Members · 34 Posts
  • Gary Greenway

    Member
    April 18, 2022 at 9:17 am

    In the Rich Rebuilds interview published April 17, 2022, Chris mentions a $7500 tax credit. According to the IRS, it’s still $2500 for 2 and 3 wheeled vehicles. Is some change imminent that we don’t know about?

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    April 18, 2022 at 9:34 am

    Don’t know why Chris Anthony made that claim, it’s not true. You should never assume that a law is going to change until it actually does. When it’s passed by both houses and signed by the President then it’s real, until then it’s not. The credit is $2500 for a motocycle, state rebates will vary by state. In Mass I don’t see any motorcycles on the eligible vehicle list. The MA autocycle bill has made no progress in the last year, it just keeps getting referred for more study, so I don’t expect that Aptera will be eligible where I live.

    • Gary Greenway

      Member
      April 18, 2022 at 10:53 am
      • Gary Greenway

        Member
        April 18, 2022 at 11:05 am

        The IRS link above is current. It gives purchase years (almost a decade ago) yet there is a 2022 tax form to claim the credit. This is why I pay to have my taxes done by an expert. Too confusing for me.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          April 18, 2022 at 1:34 pm

          If you read that page closely it doesn’t look like there is a rebate for motorcycles anymore. The four wheel rebate says 2010 or later, the two-three wheel rebate says 2012 or 2013, no mention of a later date.

    • Wes Man

      Member
      April 18, 2022 at 12:31 pm

      On the subject of tax rebates…a bit of sarcasm here…but why wouldn’t the government offer a 100% tax rebate on these vehicles for everyone?

      If they’re so concerned about global warming, why wouldn’t they put vehicles in the hands of everyone that :

      1. Can charge from the sun at a daily rate that surpasses typical daily commutes.
      2. Doesn’t require additional grid infrastructure upgrades to be able to support these in mass.
      3. Is lighter than other EVs, reducing wear on road infrastructures, and tire consumption.
      4. Is so efficient that it basically requires less of all materials to make, compared to other EVs.

      Tax rebates are not cash in hand, and this wouldn’t add to the money printing problem our country has. So this seems like a win-win scenario?

      • Russell Fauver

        Member
        April 18, 2022 at 2:04 pm

        👍

      • Scott Price

        Member
        April 18, 2022 at 2:13 pm

        I certainly agree with your points 1-4, Wes. However, the proposal would definitely add to the “money printing problem” of the US government. Someone has to pay real money to Aptera, and that would be paid through additional government debt and current/future taxpayers. No free lunch on that one, unfortunately! 🙂

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        April 18, 2022 at 3:10 pm

        Scot is on the mark.

        Government has never been able to agree on what the “Right” thing to do is. Too many competing factions and special interests. Corporate and politician well being are the chief drivers for what we end up with for policy. Never been different. Won’t be different in the future. I am a young person and learned this lesson early in life and it was reinforced when I went to work. Amazing how “Real Life” sobers you up.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    April 18, 2022 at 9:07 pm

    Some vehicles just need to be classified as clean, the number of wheels may not matter. In extreme cases it is possible to qualify for up to $15,000 in tax credits if you live in California and the vehicle was built by a union in the United States. Depending on how many vehicles sell of each model for each year, most range $2,000 to $7,500.

    https://www.greencars.com/guides/federal-tax-credits-for-electric-cars?gclid=Cj0KCQjwmPSSBhCNARIsAH3cYgYelIZoUVYe9Rv7fa19cSAmtRv_Y-fKPiJcp0C54bqoSPzleGp9I1MaAtwJEALw_wcB

    https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/en/requirements/1470

    https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/movingca/cvrp.html

    https://ev.pge.com/incentives/

    • John Malcom

      Member
      April 18, 2022 at 9:25 pm

      The net under current federal law is 0 for the Aptera. CA the best. Other states not much if any. FL where I live 0 state and federal. Aptera at a cost disadvantage against other new EVs classified as cars

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    April 18, 2022 at 10:02 pm

    Given the absolute lack of demand issues I wouldn’t be suprised to see incentives start to fade across the board. Just speculation but given the cost of these programs it seems better to tax the new ice cars instead.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 18, 2022 at 11:10 pm

    What are EV Tax Credits?

    EV Tax Credits are non-refundable tax credits that come from buying a vehicle with a battery propulsion system that can draws power from an external power source. The credits are available for both pure electric vehicles and plug in hybrids. The credits earned depend on a variety of factors and are used to decrease taxes you owed in a given year. For instance, if you bought an EV eligible for a $7500 tax credit and your total federal taxes for the year came to $8500, you would owe only $1000 to the government.


    Taken directly from car and drivers website

    Let the bashing begin 😆

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      April 19, 2022 at 2:18 am

      ??? What bashing? Your statement and example are both correct.

    • Wes Man

      Member
      April 19, 2022 at 11:22 am

      Thanks Patrick, that’s what I was getting at. Tax credits are not creating additional physical cash. It’s more of a debt forgiveness program.

  • Joshua Caldwell

    Member
    April 19, 2022 at 8:31 am

    I don’t understand why the governments offer the EV subsidy at all. Nearly all wealthy people that don’t need a subsidy are the people who buy absurdly expensive EVs, and are the only people who get the subsidies. Most subsidies are high and double or tiple the amount of taxes that any working person owes in a year. Any subsidy in excess of what is owed simply doesn’t matter as it isn’t a “refundable” tax credit at the federal level and in nearly all states, making the high numbers irrelevant to the middle class and only of value to the upper class.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      April 19, 2022 at 9:15 am

      I think that for those on the forum, who felt an EV was out of their reach, that the subsidies along with the low price of an Aptera would make an EV available to them. For them and Aptera that is a good thing.

  • Wes Man

    Member
    April 19, 2022 at 11:38 am

    Instead of a EV Tax Credit on the individual level. What if the various governments around the world did a cost benefit analysis and decided to purchase these in mass? Instead of building out heavier, less efficient vehicles, that ultimately waste more resources. Let’s start taxing new ICE and ridiculously heavy and inefficient EVs.

    Lets not just build a world full of stuff, but stuff that lasts.

  • M T

    Member
    April 19, 2022 at 1:57 pm

    The US Postal Service just signed a contract for 165000 new gas guzzling trucks(8.6-14.2mpg). Predictable routes, return to base, this seemed like a no brainer for at least a partial electric fleet. But the environment and even long term economics don’t stand a chance against special interests and lobbyists.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      April 19, 2022 at 3:23 pm

      Can you post the latest reference. This is the newest I’ve seen and it is slightly more positive (20% EVs) and is 1 month ago.

      https://www.motortrend.com/news/usps-ngdv-postal-service-mail-truck-oshkosh-defense-order/

      • M T

        Member
        April 20, 2022 at 9:27 am

        It looks like 20% of the first 50000 USPS vehicles will be electric, to basically appease the outraged masses. I suspect since Oshkosh already has the contract for ICE trucks, their “offer” to change over to electric vehicles (at egregious extra cost) will be denied. Look for the other 115000 vehicles under contract to be ICE trucks. Basically a bumbled 70s era procurement from the get go, which should have been focused on EVs from the start (to get competitive bids), with a gradual phase in to take advantage of declining battery costs and a non structural battery pack that could be replaced/upgraded down the line.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      April 21, 2022 at 7:32 am

      The USPS has a bizarre organization that’s accountable to no one. It’s not a proper government agency that reports to the President and it’s not a private company that reports to it’s stock holders. It’s time for Congress to suck the Postal Service back into the government. The reason it still exists is that there is still a need for a little bit of first class mail, not nearly enough to be profitable so it can’t be handled by the private sector, but we still need to have it (although we certainly don’t need daily deliveries). If they were a private company then we know they would have chosen an electric truck, Amazon owns 18% of Rivian and they’ve also contracted with Stellantis for electric trucks. Fed EX and UPS are also switching their fleets to electric. It’s hard to imagine an application that more suited to EVs than mail and package delivery. The trucks start and stop every couple of hundred feet, they mostly drive on residential streets which have 30MPH speed limits, they run on known length routes and they operate out of depots which can have chargers installed. If they were part of the executive branch then this administration would have been able to reverse the decision to buy the Oshkosh trucks or at least change the mix of trucks.

      • Russell Fauver

        Member
        April 21, 2022 at 9:11 am

        Agreed, the usps is an excellent candidate for EVs. Public school buses also.

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Russell Fauver. Reason: Removed non-ev related info
  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    April 19, 2022 at 7:40 pm

    What we are missing here is that some manufacturers bought the tax credits from the purchaser outright. That way the tax credits could be used by the dealership and or the manufacturer. The customer would see it as a cash credit off the purchase of the electric vehicle.

  • seth feldman

    Member
    April 20, 2022 at 9:06 pm

    It would be nice if aptera had a team member who consolidated tax credits for each state. Specifically if rebates specifically have autocycle wording that covers aptera, or if they only count as a motorcycle. It would sort of make sense anyways since some are meant for the dealer to fill out, and take cash off purchase price.

    On a side note some states and utility companies are offering rebates on car chargers and/or panel upgrades.

    • Scott Price

      Member
      April 20, 2022 at 9:27 pm

      Hi Gary, a good place to start with summaries of incentives from every state is available at https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/search. You can choose categories of interest for your state and personal EVs.

      • Gary Greenway

        Member
        April 21, 2022 at 3:27 am

        Here in ICE land (Michigan) we get diddly squat.

        • John Malcom

          Member
          April 21, 2022 at 7:42 am

          Here in sunny land…FL…the same!

          • Vernon Michael Gardner

            Member
            April 21, 2022 at 6:07 pm

            I just read that Texas it is illegal to sell electric road worthy vehicles. So you get fined for owning an electric car, truck, van, autocycle. But you can drive your golf cart on the highway if you want to ….. LOL, jk.

            Note: several states it is illegal to sell electric vehicles and store fronts are not allowed for electric vehicles. Nor are you allowed to purchase electric vehicle through the internet. It comes down to not being allowed to register them for road use in some states. Tesla builds in Texas, but is not allowed to sell vehicles there?

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    April 27, 2022 at 10:02 pm

    Several tax credit information sites did not specify wheel quantity.

    https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/how-does-the-electric-car-tax-credit-work

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      April 28, 2022 at 6:10 am

      From the site you posted,

      • It has to have four wheels.
      • It can’t weigh more than 14,000 pounds.
      • It has to have a battery that provides 4 kilowatt-hours (kWh) or more of power.
      • It must be able to be charged from an external source – that is, a plug.
        It has to have four wheels.
        It can’t weigh more than 14,000 pounds.
        It has to have a battery that provides 4 kilowatt-hours (kWh) or more of power.
        It must be able to be charged from an external source – that is, a plug.
      • Vernon Michael Gardner

        Member
        April 28, 2022 at 7:46 pm

        Josh, some states, wheel count matters, feds. want 4 wheels. We will see when it happens, I personally think our politicians take way to long to make a valid decision so they don’t have to produce anything.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          April 29, 2022 at 6:29 am

          Fed is four wheels. I don’t think it will be eligible for a rebate in Massachusetts either. The MOR-EV website makes no mention of wheel counts but in their list of eligible vehicles there are no motorcycles mentioned and under current Mass law the Aptera is classified as a motorcycle, there is a bill kicking around the legislature to create an autocycle category but it’s been bouncing from committee to committee.

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