ModeratorJune 10, 2022 at 6:01 am
Came across this article asserting that EV’s make good sense from a dollars and cents perspective:
Author mentions the eye-opening fact that electric motors utilize 85% of their “fuel” vs. around 40% for an ICE. This would appear to be a good talking point when we’re out there in the world taking about “Why Aptera?” with our family members, friends, and neighbors.
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 6:27 am
The ICE community only wishes that they could get as good as 40% efficiency.
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 7:39 am
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 6:30 am
When talking about fuel cost just break it down to pennies per mile. When people ask, and with current gas prices people are asking, I say that my Model 3 costs me 6 cents a mile when charging at home which is what a Prius cost last year, this year a Prius costs 10 cents per mile and a BMW costs 20 cents per mile. The Aptera will cost me 2.5 cents per mile. For those of you who live where electricity is cheaper than in Massachusetts, and that’s most places, the numbers will be more impressive. And for those of you who live in sunny climbs you might be able to say that the Aptera gets most or many all of it’s electricity from the sun. BTW to Prius owners, who are generally tree huggers, I accuse them of rolling coal. I point out that my Model 3 is equivalent to a 130MPG car in terms of emissions, the Aptera will be the equivalent of 300MPG car (depending where you live). I’ll post the link to the site where you can figure out your virtual tail pipe emissions again,
- This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Joshua Rosen.
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 6:57 am
A weak point in my opinion. If someone were to use that tag line on me my response would be “And…..” waiting for the punchline.
A more comprehensive and compelling argument would be a five year life cycle cost for EVs vs. a comparable ICE vehicle. Comprehensive, accounting for most financial factors associated with ownership.
Many sources list three factors holding back EV sales. (Each source may have them listed in a different order). Initial cost, battery range, availability of charging stations/time to charge) The percent of fuel comparison does not address any of the big three.
Another factor I find with my personal acquaintances, because we’re younger and live in condos and apartments, is we can’t charge at home thus have to plan for the inconvenience of charging somewhere else.
I am on the intersection of Millennial/Gen Z the growing target market for almost all products, to include EVs/Aptera. Selling taglines/arguments need to be targeted at our criteria. The arguments that may appeal to the Baby Boom generation to include efficiency of fuel use is not one of them.
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 7:46 am
A great point: no garage, no charger.
There is the edge case where the (guy) ran his extension cord out his window, across the lawn and sidewalk and to his car, but let’s get real. This ‘Boomer has a 13th floor condo. That’s one hell of a cord! Locally, I only have one charger, an EA, in walking distance. I only drive about 50 miles a week and my zone can charge a claimed 26 miles a day.
Except for the fact my wife hates the idea of a tadpole runabout; what’s not to love?
ModeratorJune 10, 2022 at 7:55 am
All my tadpoles turned into beautiful creatures that 🎶serenaded 🎵us day and night!😉
Wishing the same to you
- This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Len Nowak Nowak.
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 8:01 am
Oh, you must have opt’d for the sound-system upgrade. 😃
ModeratorJune 10, 2022 at 10:35 am
I hear you, Jonah. Point taken. Appeals for any product, Aptera or otherwise, are different for different demographics for sure. Interesting you promote the big picture, long view of five year life cycle cost savings — I can certainly get on board with that. However, I note that most of us (myself included) tend to take the short view. That is, what’s it’s going to get me today or this week, rather than next year or 5 years from now. Just sayin’. The solar panels I had installed on my roof won’t pay me back for 10 years. They required readjusting my sights along the lines you suggest.
MemberJune 12, 2022 at 5:16 am
Jonah, you bring up a common approach that is used in considering several key resource factors when making a choice to buy a new vehicle. One important factor that your approach fails to consider is the monthly cost of vehicle ownership. The reality is that many people have to meet a monthly budget. This is why you historically see dealerships focusing on what a monthly payment will be for a potential car sale. Not everyone has the luxury of thinking beyond what their monthly budget can handle. This includes monthly car payments, energy expenses, insurance premiums, and average monthly maintenance expenses. When taking this into account, discussing the monthly energy cost savings as Joshua pointed out does come into the picture… no matter which arbitrary generational stereotype one finds themselves.
MemberJune 12, 2022 at 8:48 am
I do not believe that the majority of auto buyers, new or used, buy based on mostly objective, economic, analysis of any type. (Monthly budget/expenses or life cycle cost) Buying cars is mostly on an emotional basis (Appearance, status, what is the current fad, etc.) and will spend an irrational percentage of their income to get what they want rather than what they need or what is prudent based on their income and expenses. Auto advertising is oriented towards this market. This is one of the main reasons that many people are upside down in their auto loans and/or they are in arrears on their payment commitments. These people have to settle for sub-prime loan rates, much higher, which will exacerbate their monthly or annual budget planning.
Second, five year Life cycle costing is an aggregate of ALL statistically significant factors(Only the ones that demonstrate a statistically significant contribution in an appropriate regression equation) at an interval of choosing (Most probably monthly) Without this kind of information, the approach you suggest will not result in valid or reliable results because you don’t have comprehensive expense information necessary to include in a budget analysis
Most prudent advice on buying cars argues against using the monthly payment as the criteria for making a purchasing decision.
MemberJune 10, 2022 at 8:45 am
I love how cheap the fuel is for our EV. The wife’s CR-V will cary us 32 miles on a $4.50 gallon of gas while $4.50 of electricity in my Force will carry us 197 miles. Can’t wait to see how the numbers work out with Aptera’s efficiency and the built-in solar.
MemberJune 11, 2022 at 10:08 am
Russel, your wife can carry you 448 miles on a full tank , your electric car can carry you 197miles. And then. You stop to recharge for how long ? To go another 197 miles , and you are still 54 miles shy of 1 fill up in the CRv to which you would have to stop and charge again
A full charge at level 1 can take up to 4 days
A full charge from level 2 can take 10 hours
A full charge at level 3 dc fast charge 30/40 minutes
What it comes down to. What’s your time worth ?
How long do you have to wait for the charge ?
Your wife can pull into a gas station refill in under 10 minutes and leave you sitting for up to 4 days…. Sure it costs more. But ? She can get from coast or coast and back while you’re still charging on the first cross country trip
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by Patrick Liebknecht.
MemberJune 11, 2022 at 10:52 am
You are correct if you were to only ever to drive an electric car on long distance trips. I drive a Tesla model 3 and only ever plug it into a level 1 charger every night and it’s ready to go the next morning. I save roughly 5 minutes of my time per week not having to fill at a gas station. Things flip when I take a long drive and have to wait 30 minutes every 200 miles to supercharge.
If someone wanted to plan out a cross country trip in an electric car it would be by choice. I would probably just rent a gas car for a coast to coast drive if time was very important.
MemberJune 11, 2022 at 12:11 pm
A mandatory stop every so often to eat and stretch your legs is good for mental health. I prefer to stop every 2-3 hours. Safety undoubtedly degrades if driving longer as mental fatigue becomes a factor.
MemberJune 12, 2022 at 9:52 am
It’s not a 30 minute stop, closer to 15, enough time to go to the bathroom. We do road trips every weekend, usually 300-350 miles, the longest is 450 miles. We plan our stops based on bladder size not battery size. For example we went to Montpelier Vermont a week ago, 350 miles. We could have done it with one Supercharger stop in Berlin Vt which is next to Montpelier, that was ABRP suggestion but of course computers don’t have bladders. Instead we had two 15 minute stops in Lebanon NH, one on the way up and one on the way back. Lebanon is two hours from home which is the maximum range of our bladders.
I’ve ordered the 600 mile Aptera as it will free me from planning our stops because it won’t need to be charged for any our trips even the 450 mile ones. We will still make just as many stops but we won’t be constrained by Supercharger locations, any Duncan Donuts will do.
MemberJune 15, 2022 at 12:06 am
If Russell’s numbers are accurate that’s a savings of $23.20 every 197 miles. Assuming someone actually rolls, and unrolls the cord instead of just pulling and dropping it increasing their at home charging time to 1minute per day that’s still only 5 minutes spent on charging per week. probably 1 minute for lazy cord droppers like me… the only time you’d really be saving time at a gas station would be for road trips exceeding your range, and with 600 or 1000 mile range I’d probably be able to just sleep through at least one of the charges anyways. Don’t forget since aptera is so efficient it can supposedly recharge 500 miles per hour saving $58.88 or $29.44 if charging stations are double Russel’s quoted price and not counting how much more efficient aptera should be. Either way that’s more than most people get paid actually working if they actually have to sit there doing nothing while it charges.
MemberJune 11, 2022 at 11:03 am
I have to laugh. I was watching the news and they were taking about gas prices and there was a huge Tesla charging station in the background. What rolls in ??? A Tesla on a rollback that ran out of charge Lmao. That’s funny. But still. AAA reported they’ve seen a 100% increase in people running out of gas. I’m guessing they had to make a choice. Food on the table or a full fill up ….
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by Patrick Liebknecht.