FAQ battery over charging cutoff

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions FAQ battery over charging cutoff

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions FAQ battery over charging cutoff

  • FAQ battery over charging cutoff

     Alain Chuzel updated 4 months, 1 week ago 13 Members · 24 Posts
  • seth feldman

    Member
    January 21, 2022 at 10:20 pm

    just curious if there will be any charging cutoffs to avoid over charging both from wall/charger and or solar? Second can these be set to cut off at 80 percent for optimal battery longevity when max range isn’t required? Assuming that’s optimal for this batteries chemistry of course.

  • Alain Chuzel

    Member
    January 22, 2022 at 4:46 am

    (delete)

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Alain Chuzel.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Alain Chuzel.
  • Alain Chuzel

    Member
    January 22, 2022 at 4:46 am

    There’s NO way there wouldn’t be an automatic charge cutoff. I don’t
    know, however, if there will be the ability to somehow set it to a
    different level. I’m betting there will be but hopefully you’ll get a
    better answer from another forum member.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    January 22, 2022 at 7:20 am

    Every EV has a mechanism to set the maximum charging level, the chances that this car won’t have that ability is vanishingly small. What I’d like to see them do is have two max levels, one for wall charging and one for solar. For maximum battery life you want to be able to set an absolute level but because the car has solar charging as well as wall charging you would like to leave room for solar energy. For example you might want to set the wall charge level to 50-60% and set the absolute max to 80%, that would guarantee a minimum range which is satisfactory for local driving but still leave you with 20-30% of your battery to capture that free clean solar energy.

    Final thought, hopefully their app will allow you to set the levels as well as the screen in the car, that’s what Tesla does. Controlling from the app is very helpful. I normally have my level set to 75%, that’s where is sits for most of the week. But if I’m going on a road trip I’ll bump it up to 90% a few hours, or perhaps the night before, I leave. You can also turn on climate control from Tesla’s app, this is very important in winter. You want to preheat the car while it’s plugged in. In the case of a Tesla it’s also required if you want to get the doors open. This probably won’t apply to Aptera because the top of the windows are fixed, but a Tesla has frameless windows they have to lower in order to open or shut the doors. In winter the windows can freeze shut, it’s happened to me twice this year even though I’ve sprayed all the seals with Teflon+Silicone. If you can’t roll down the window you can’t shut the door. By setting the car to defrost from the app I’m able to work around this California engineer induced bug. Hopefully the Aptera won’t have a quirk like that but at the very least it’s nice to have the windows defrosted before you get into car and nice to do it while the car is plugged in so you don’t drain the battery.

  • Guy SKEER

    Member
    January 22, 2022 at 8:25 am

    REALLY Useful to Have the benefit of Your Knowledge/Experience on this issue, @Joshua Rosen!

    Thanks for That !

    • John Malcom

      Member
      February 17, 2022 at 1:36 pm

      Pretty much speculation/conjecture (As stated by Scott’s post) on the capability that Aptere will have. Alain Chuzel is a knowledgeable expert in this area. I would assign high credibility to his observations overs others regarding this topic.

      I believe Aptera engineers are knowledgeable and also good at researching technology and functionality to incorporate into the Aptera. We will not be disappointed with what the final result will be. We should probably resist second guessing based our limited experience and wait to the mature functionality is announced by Aptera

  • Scott Price

    Member
    January 22, 2022 at 6:36 pm

    Seth, Crank Software (the UI developer that Aptera has partnered / outsourced with) indirectly revealed some early UI and functionality in this short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57PCLnTm9a8. At 0:05 in the video, there is an “85%” on-screen element shown that likely is a slider control for a user selectable upper charging cut-off level. That is conjecture plus this particular UI video is 10 months old, so there may likely be updates in the interim. Nonetheless, it may point to where and how the functionality you are talking about will be accessed in the Aptera UI.

  • larry kaiser

    Member
    February 17, 2022 at 8:40 am

    While we are talking about charging, the max power you can get from a level 2 charger is limited to 3.3KWH. This is apparently due to A/C charging causing the battery to heat up. There are 10’s of thousands of level 2 chargers but this limit makes it not worth the time to find one and plug in. It seems that all the other EV’s can use the full power of a level 2. If the Aptera cannot use the full power certainly it could use the full power until the battery reached the 90F range or so and then throttle the charging back to 3.3KWH. It would be nice if the Aptera was as efficent in charging as it is in using the power.

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      February 17, 2022 at 9:16 am

      Charging speed is relative. My ev charges at 7 miles per hour on level 1 and 21 miles per hour at level 2. 3.3 kwh in the Aptera will probably yield 30+ miles per hour, a 50% increase from what I’ve been getting for the past 9 years. Sure 6.6 kwh would be great! But even at 3.3 it’s still worth plugging in to 240v in my opinion.

      • Alain Chuzel

        Member
        February 17, 2022 at 12:52 pm

        You made similar minor technical errors as Larry.

        • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Alain Chuzel.
    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      February 17, 2022 at 12:49 pm

      Minor technical correction if you don’t mind:

      You said: “…the max power you can get from a level 2 charger is limited to 3.3KWH.”

      You probably meant: “…the max power you can get from a level 2 charger is limited to 3.3KW.”

      Similar mistake in your second to last sentence.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        February 17, 2022 at 1:44 pm

        Alain, Thanks for helping to keep the forum posts technically accurate in topical space.

      • GLENN ZAJIC

        Member
        February 17, 2022 at 2:19 pm

        Hello Alain, Please educate me a little on battery tech. My interest is in longevity of battery.

        When someone says X amount of cycles- are they saying from high (like 80-90%) to low (like 20-30%) or are they referring to any draw down and recharge? Isn’t that what makes the dendrites grow? Reason for my asking: I have reserved the 60 kw model, but I seldom drive very far. I am in anticipation of using it for home back-up should the need arise. Living in Southern California and only driving 20 miles per day, I think the battery is going to sit charged (from being outside) most of its life. Is this a bad thing? I may take one or two long trips a year to give it a deep cycle.

        • Harry Parker

          Moderator
          February 17, 2022 at 3:31 pm

          I’m an Electrical Engineer that has researched a bit about Lithium battery charging. Here is a bit of info on the subject. If you want to learn a lot I on the subject I suggest the free Battery University website, https://batteryuniversity.com .

          When a battery company specs a number of recharge cycles, they mean from 0 to 100%. So if you are going from 75% to 25% and back to 75%, for example, that counts as half a cycle.

          But it’s better than that, because the worst stress and aging of a battery is time spent near 0% and near 100%. By keeping your battery away from below 10% and only shortly above 90%, your battery will have a low stress, long life.

          Keep it in the middle of itts charging range for the longest life, and keep it cool, by allowing it to run its climate management. For most EVs, that means keeping it plugged in when you can, especially if it is hot out, like over 85F. But then if it is not full, even getting hot won’t be much of a problem. Teslas automatically run their battery cooler when their batteries get warm, IF the battery has a higher charge. Hopefully Aptera will do the same.

          • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Harry Parker.
          • GLENN ZAJIC

            Member
            February 17, 2022 at 8:09 pm

            Thanks Harry for that info. I was going to read about the Battery University before I thanked you, but that will take me a week or two! Oh to have low stress and a long life! Good stuff!

          • Llewellyn Evans

            Member
            February 18, 2022 at 1:12 am

            Thanks for the clear explanation Harry. I learned something that I always wondered about and never had a decent handle on. Have a fantastic day!

        • Alain Chuzel

          Member
          February 18, 2022 at 6:52 am

          Glenn, I can also recommend visiting/studying https://batteryuniversity.com/ as I have personally found it indispensable.

          Alas, by the way, I have another correction for you….

          You have reserved the 60 “KWH” model not the 60 KW model. I realize this may be quite confusing to you and hope you will bear with me as I try to explain.

          First thing to remember is that “Power” and “Energy” are not the same thing. Unfortunately, the two terms and their associated units are often confused and misused. Quite simply, think of “Energy” as “stuff” and think of “Power” as “the time rate of transfer of such stuff”.

          A battery can be thought of as having some amount of electrical energy (stuff) in it. The amount contained within them is usually expressed in terms such as Watt-hours or Kilowatt-hours (or appropriate abbreviations). The Aptera you reserved has a certain number of rechargeable batteries in the pack and, cumulatively, they have the ability to “hold” up to the equivalent of 60 Kilowatt-hours of electrical “Energy” within them. When charging or discharging them, the time RATE at which “Energy” (stuff) is being transferred is called “Power” and it is usually expressed in terms such as Watts or Kilowatts (or, again, appropriate abbreviations).

          Here’s a hypothetical example. If you have an empty 60 Kilowatt-hours (Energy) pack and you connect it to a 0.6 Kilowatt (Power) charger, the pack will “fill” in 60 Kilowatt-hours divided by 0.6 Kilowatt equals 100 hours. Conversely, assuming the pack is full (containing 60 Kilowatt-hours of Energy) and your motor is “drawing” (a.k.a., using or consuming) at a rate of 0.6 Kilowatts (Power) to move you at a steady speed, you’d be able to drive at that speed for 60 Kilowatt-hours divided by 0.6 Kilowatt equals 100 hours.

          Hope that helps. Feel free to ask for any clarifications.

          • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

            Member
            February 18, 2022 at 8:48 am

            Alain, isn’t kilowatt-hour abbreviated kWh? 😁

            • Alain Chuzel

              Member
              February 18, 2022 at 10:04 am

              That is certainly one way of abbreviating it. My personal favorite, though, is KW-hr as I find it better conveys that it’s the product of “KW” (power) and “hr” (time).

            • GLENN ZAJIC

              Member
              February 18, 2022 at 6:02 pm

              Thanks Alain. That website is great. I am even learning answers to questions I was not smart enough to ask!

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        February 18, 2022 at 6:28 pm

        You could say you get 3.3 kWh into the battery per hour but anyone that remember 4th grade fractions can eliminate both of the hours portions.

        🤣

        • Alain Chuzel

          Member
          February 19, 2022 at 4:35 am

          When speaking of energy, I wish we could get away from “Kilowatt-hours” altogether and just use “Kilojoules”. To me, the units are much more intuitive and would likely result in fewer errors.

          • Harry Parker

            Moderator
            February 19, 2022 at 6:05 am

            You a Physics major? Not too many folks think in “joules”.

            The nice thing about KWH is that is the unit of energy everybody’s electricity bill uses, so we know what it is worth.

            I pay about 12 cents for each one (includiing 5 cents delivery charge and taxes).

            • Alain Chuzel

              Member
              February 19, 2022 at 6:45 am

              I never wanted more than a Bachelor’s degree and, while I love Physics (especially the “Modern” variety), I didn’t think I’d be as well “compensated” with just an undergraduate degree in that discipline as I would with an Engineering degree.

              When I said “I wish we could get away from “Kilowatt-hours”….”, I meant it in a very global sense and not just here on the Forum. In other words, if my wish came true, everyone’s electricity bills would be in Kilojoules (or Megajoules) rather than in Kilowatt-hours. I’ve come to terms with the likelihood that my wish won’t ever come true….

              • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Alain Chuzel.
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