flawed 0-60 time?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions flawed 0-60 time?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions flawed 0-60 time?

  • flawed 0-60 time?

  • Henry Robin

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 1:05 pm

    I’d like to start by saying that the testing method mentioned in this post is standard for a lot of American car companies and magazines, including the NHRA and all major car manufacturers, and I am merely wondering if Aptera uses this testing method as opposed to accusing them of doing so.

    Let’s cover this definition first: Rollout.

    Rollout or rollout allowance in North-American drag racing is the difference between actual acceleration time and measured acceleration time. For the published 0 to 60 mph acceleration time in North America, a rolling start is used, beginning 1 foot (0.3 m) after the initial standing start position.Rollout or rollout allowance in North-American drag racing is the difference between actual acceleration time and measured acceleration time. For the published 0 to 60 mph acceleration time in North America, a rolling start is used, beginning 1 foot (0.3 m) after the initial standing start position.

    This means every 0-60 time, from Toyota Prius’ to Tesla Plaids, are actually not 0-60 times, they are the time of speed after 1 foot to 60mph. This is important because when you’re accelerating you have to avoid overcoming the traction of the tires. Imagine if in the first one foot you spin the tires, adding .3 seconds of time. This pushes the Tesla plaid to 2.29 seconds and the aptera to 3.8 seconds. Also, sometimes the acceleration in the first foot is less acceleration than the remaining because getting things going from a stop is harder than getting something going that’s already moving.

    There is also the question about battery weight. Theoretically, the fastest model of the Aptera will be the one with the smallest battery, as it will take less energy to reach the same momentum if you have a lesser amount of mass. The 0-60 time does not change between battery models which is a big question mark to me.

    I will end this post with a request from Aptera: Launch Mode. With all of these questions it seems strange to request, as I have more questions than answers regarding this topic, but I have to say that 0-60 speed is one of the biggest factors in my decision to buy an Aptera and I’d like more transparency and testing regarding the subject. I’d hate for the community to have to figure out this by doing their own testing once vehicles begin getting delivered.

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    September 6, 2022 at 1:21 pm

    I suggest writing to info@aptera.us

    However…

    They will be at the Sep 10-11 Fully Charged LIVE event in San Diego

    If you need a -$30 discount on their refundable

    reservation:

    https://lz953.isrefer.com/go/preorder/Qzbm9uhy

    Exciting tine!

    Good luck

  • John Malcom

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 1:22 pm

    Personally I don’t care about how the zero to 60 is measured, about the insignificant difference between the two methods or what the resulting values are. I am buying an Aptera for its efficiency and not drag racing or any 0 to 60 performance on or off a track.

    Launch mode for an Aptera is a non sequitur and certainly not part of the efficiency ethos of Aptera. I am sure there will be no launch mode delivered with an Aptera.

    • LoveAptera YokeDealbreaker

      Member
      September 7, 2022 at 7:10 am

      1.99 seconds divided by 2.29 seconds equals 86.8% honesty and 13.2% lies. Not huge, but not insignificant, either. This testing method is deceptive, but perhaps it helps lower the difference caused by economy tires? Then Toyota doesn’t have to put UHP tires on the Prius and the rest of their fleet just for 0-60 testing. As OP said, every manufacturer tests this way, so “if you can’t beat them, join them”.

      By the way John, you are always “sure” about everything you write in every post (which is a LOT). I wish I had your level of foresight and intuition. “My way or the highway!” so to speak.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        September 7, 2022 at 9:45 am

        As long as everyone uses the same lie then numbers are still relative and useful. Aptera especially with AWD will be a fast vehicle but not soo fast that gimmicks like launch mode are needed. Software for the Aptera will be basic initially and will likely never catch up with Tesla – games, toys, and every major service will probably never be included. Development is expensive.

        If I had to guess I expect the features will be something like (pure conjecture):

        Day 1:

        • Basic preheat cabin
        • Battery Limit and Usage stats (focus in marketing)
        • Navigation and music streaming (one vendor) with some weird quirks and poor if any voice or phone integration

        Within 1 Year:

        • Sentry Mode Equivalent
        • Pet Mode Equivalent
        • Battery preconditioning

        Within 2 Years:

        • Netflix and perhaps one other streaming service
        • Most navigation and music issues resolved
      • John Malcom

        Member
        September 7, 2022 at 7:53 pm

        I am confident. It comes from decades of engineering experience in this business domain. If you have been there done that a hundred times it is pretty easy to see where things will go. It is not my way or the highway, It is according to the engineering plan and how closely the engineering organization adheres to their culture. Aptera is draconian about sticking to their plan and culture. Others may say “Hey about this or that” Aptera says this is what is in the plan and what it will be. Part of the ambassador’s role is to help people stay on track with what Aptera wants there vehicle to be.

        There certainly is nothing wrong with speculation, but at the end of the day we need to return to what was planned and what can be done with the time and resources available and those things marketable to the majority of potential buyers.

        You certainly are free to post as much as you want too. It is a demonstration of interest and commitment to what Aptera stands for and what it will be in the market place. you certainly are free to disagree with me.

        • LoveAptera YokeDealbreaker

          Member
          September 11, 2022 at 10:43 am

          Thank you John Malcom, that is a much more mature pose than others on this forum have shown me. I definitely learn more from conversing with people that disagree with me, than I learn from people that agree with me (true for every human, wish they would realize). I am here solely because of my interest in Aptera,

    • Philip Sandiford

      Member
      September 7, 2022 at 10:19 am

      Here, here John.

  • Henry Robin

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    Some of us are environmental/efficiency enthusiasts, and some of us are environmental/efficiency enthusiasts and car enthusiasts. I happen to fall into the latter category and, while you might not be planning on going to car shows/drag strips to show off your new ride, I definitely am. I believe in this company so much and want to show everyone that science and engineering can be good for the environment and economical, as well as cool, aesthetic and fast.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      September 6, 2022 at 1:53 pm

      Feel free to do so. But it will be without a launch mode.

      Nearly all that are interested in the Aptera are interested in it for its efficiency and contribution to reducing vehicle emissions. It would be a bad business decision to allocate resources to implement a feature that is desired by a vey small minority. With right to repair you can modify an Aptera any way you want to after purchase.

    • James Bianco Sr

      Member
      September 6, 2022 at 3:25 pm

      I’m also with you in the latter. Currently show off a 2010 Viper SRT10 Vert. Toxic Orange/Black stripe. 1 of 13 in that schema. Obviously it’s not in the gas fuel economy realm.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 5:26 pm

    I don’t know about actually measuring the times and I do normally drive for efficiency. However there are times when not having a quick acceleration time for me has been a little bit of a problem. Like trying to merge into heavy traffic on a 55 MPH road from a side street, especially when that heavy traffic is averaging 60 MPH.

  • John Trotter

    Moderator
    September 6, 2022 at 9:53 pm

    The 0 to 60 concern, and the need for precision, is so yesterday. I venture to predict that noisy drag strips will go the way of steam tractor contests. Car tracks with curves will remain, with just wind and tire noise. That said, I have reserved an AWD Aptera so it can keep up with my Tesla Model Y Performance. Either will be faster to 60 mph than virtually all stock ICE cars out there. I’ll drive one or the other to old fashioned drag races or tractor pulls.

  • Henry Robin

    Member
    September 6, 2022 at 9:57 pm

    There are electric vehicles that have launch control. Some change stance (Tesla Cheeta Mode), some have a transmission (Porche Taycan), and some just increase the amount of energy supplied by the motors (Hummer EV). There are things they all have in common too, like having specific settings for traction, abs, torque vs acceleration, all temporary settings that only apply while in launch mode.

    The car I have currently is a hybrid with electric motors. It has eco mode, normal mode and sports mode, in addition to mud and sand, rock and dirt, and snow. Launch mode is no different, it is just a computer setting that allows the vehicle to preform the best way it can depending on the way that you are using it.

  • Sam Adams

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 5:20 am

    Some even have Insane Mode and Drag Strip Mode… It’s crazy, but it’s in all good fun.

    I’m getting my Aptera for a daily commuter that never needs charging but I know I’ll regret it if I don’t get the AWD.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 5:24 am

    I wonder if the 400 mile version would have a better 0-60 time. The additional weight and location of the weight might aid in traction of the rear wheel. Plus the larger pack would have less voltage drop under high loads.

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 7, 2022 at 5:52 am

      This is one of those things that no one seems to bother to think through. Aptera says “0-60 In As Little as 3.5 seconds” Does anyone really think that they wouldn’t post a lower time if one was anticipated in any way? You can take this to say that the fastest model may reach that goal, but different/heavier models will be a little slower. (“You Cannae Change The Laws Of Physics.”)

      • John Trotter

        Moderator
        September 8, 2022 at 9:40 pm

        OZ. Good point. I wonder if the calculations from when the statement was first made don’t have enough uncertainty to cover all the variations we talk about before hand (weight, temperature, tires, traction control sophistication.) Production will tell.

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      September 9, 2022 at 3:14 am

      I was struggling with the responses to my post then I realized my first sentence was incomplete. It should have read, “I wonder if the 400 mile version would have a better 0-60 time than the 250.”. I didn’t mean to imply that the 400 mile version would exceed Aptera’s predicted specs. I was just making a guess between the two models. Sorry for the mix up.

  • guy vanoppen

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 12:22 am

    I prefer the opposite of lauch control, this car is way to fast. So I prefer a possibility to limit the launch to e.g. 7 seconds. Perhaps a profile for each driver. You don’t let your kids drive with such a fast car. So I hope for this user profiles.

  • Wes Man

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 8:53 am

    I’m pretty sure some math wizard on here, or in a previous video from Aptera, someone mentioned that the 400 mile range battery will be faster than the 250 battery. Traditional power to weight ratios aside, we have to also consider how fast power can be consumed, with electric vehicles.

  • Chris Hale

    Member
    September 8, 2022 at 3:52 pm

    Speeds are relative. For me I have an old Mazda pickup. I estimate that it goes from 0-60 in about 20 seconds. Yes, it’s that slow. I then bought a Lexus ct 200. This was fast at a blistering 10.5 seconds from 0-60. I bought my wife a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a v6. It’s even faster at a 7.5 second 0-60 time. So, I will be very happy with my front wheel drive only 0-60 in 5.5 second Aptera. Thank you. Everything is relative. 😄

  • Ricky Camacho

    Member
    September 9, 2022 at 1:41 pm

    they said on the google spreadsheet that they have that the smaller the battery the fastest they even said that maybe a 3.1 0 to 60 in the smallest battery! but of course, we will never know until it is released. I’m buying 1 AWD 250 batt for the same reasons XD.

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 9, 2022 at 2:32 pm

      You may be mis remembering, or working from someone else’s post. On my last saved version of the Google sheet, they address it as 0-60 for the 250 mile version as 3.5 seconds and slower for the others.

  • Richard Harris

    Member
    September 19, 2022 at 12:42 pm

    I’ve looked for, but haven’t been able to find a published 1/4 mile time. Lot’s of us Boomers who grew up in the muscle car era use that as a reference point. Car and Driver, Hot Rod, and other car magazines always included 1/4 mile times along with 0-60 times. I’m just curious as to what the 1/4 mile times would be.

  • Andrew McKeown-Henshall

    Member
    September 20, 2022 at 7:00 am

    It’s one of the most pointless statistics for 99.9% of drivers (along with top speed) in that it bears no relation to how people use their vehicles (pure Willy waving!)

    Much more useful are 50-70 times (Highway overtake) and 0-30 times (traffic light dash)

  • Taylor Konowe

    Member
    September 7, 2022 at 12:53 am

    Yes… but there are perfect conditions that can allow for a better 0-60 time. The tesla plaid has a launch mode where the battery needs to be relatively high charge and some other stuff I don’t care to learn about. I am like most, a few hundredths of a second isn’t going to matter that much, it is still faster than most ICE cars, even performance ones. And I am buying it for the range over anything else. If there wasn’t an AWD option, I would still buy it at the slower speed. Though, for the price, it is worth buying.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    September 19, 2022 at 1:12 pm

    Until they start real world testing everything is based on simulations. MotorMatchup.com projects a 11.82 second 1/4 mile for the 400 mile aptera with ~1 second of that being at the 110 mph top speed. This is all based on constants many of which are estimates with the physics calculations. This puts Aptera in the same ballpark as the model 3 performance or Rivian R1T with optimal tires.

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