For those of us not a fan of all the Tesla Hub-bub recently.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions For those of us not a fan of all the Tesla Hub-bub recently.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions For those of us not a fan of all the Tesla Hub-bub recently.

  • For those of us not a fan of all the Tesla Hub-bub recently.

  • Nicholas Dedoszak

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 12:32 pm

    <div>Here is a petition to let those at Aptera that they are making some of their customers unhappy with their latest publicity stunt.
    </div><div>

    </div><div>

    https://www.change.org/p/aptera-enough-with-the-tesla-plug

    </div>

  • Jonathan Reni

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 12:39 pm
    • Nicholas Dedoszak

      Member
      July 17, 2022 at 12:45 pm

      Hi,

      Sorry about that confusion, the link in the main post should work as well.

      • Jonathan Reni

        Member
        July 17, 2022 at 12:52 pm

        Nice. I signed it. I think Tesla Owners Club last YouTube video was spot on. The whole thing doesn’t make sense if taken at face value. If reading between the lines, I think the most logical conclusion is that they are looking to raise serious capital. But they should be able to do this on the merits of Aptera alone, without the games. As for the plug, they should focus on V2H in my opinion.

  • John Voules

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 12:47 pm

    N O T H A N K S

    We truly do not know what the goals are of APTERA’s management in regards to Tesla. We are only speculating at anything they are intent to create or produce. We should have patience and faith to support what ever their intentions are. We do not have the big picture in mind at this point. Why stir up a bee’s nest!

    We are customers at this point hoping to become future clients. Some of us who are also investors understand that management should have some leeway to take a path for what’s best for the future of the company.

    • Nicholas Dedoszak

      Member
      July 17, 2022 at 12:51 pm

      Hi,

      Was this response truly necessary? you could have left the introduction out and it would have been a perfectly reasonable response. Everyone’s opinion should be heard, and since there was only a petition for one side, I made an opposing petition, so that management can have more accurate insight into this topic, that’s all.

      Have a great day, and thank you for your opposing view.

    • Norman Roberts

      Moderator
      July 17, 2022 at 1:05 pm

      I agree with John Voules. I am good with either charging port. I have only used Tesla supercharger and have found them to be reliable and well located. If tesla opens up their network to all, then having a Tesla port on the Aptera would be a Bonus. By opening up Tesla charging network to all it may allow Tesla access to Gov funds to speed up expansion. Tesla can build chargers for less and quicker. I keep thinking that there is more to Aptera’s push than we know

    • Paul Schultz

      Member
      July 17, 2022 at 3:40 pm

      @John Voules

      Aptera has every right to use the Tesla connector and might even gain access to the Supercharger network. That would be their business decision. Asking people to take a stand to make the tesla connector the US standard is not something an Aptera fan, reservation holder, and investor, like myself, needs to agree with. Crusading to make the Tesla connector the US standard is not needed as part of an EV start-up company either. So, in my opinion, signing a petition to back this notion is not something I need to, or want to endorse. Any connector will do for me in the end. But, the Tesla connector does not have the specs to be a sustainable US standard. This was outlined well by Steve in his Aptera Owners Club video.

      • Jonathan Reni

        Member
        July 17, 2022 at 3:58 pm

        Hear hear!

      • John Voules

        Member
        July 18, 2022 at 5:33 pm

        @Paul Shultz

        Paul why are you directing this response towards me…I personally agree exactly with what you just wrote.

        Not sure if this was misplaced towards me?

        • Paul Schultz

          Member
          July 18, 2022 at 7:17 pm

          Hmmm, if your edit timeframe hasn’t closed you really should remove the all-caps “NOTHANKS”. It was already pointed out that it aggressively negates the original post. My post was directed at your NOTHANKS as it implied a disagreement with the OP and further implies an endorsement of Aptera management’s recent actions and strategy. Unless I am reading your post incorrectly I am not sure we are fully aligned. I don’t like Aptera’s recent strategy. Your post appears to favor a ‘wait, trust, and see’ approach with Aptera. I don’t feel their actions to push for the Tesla connector as the US standard is a wise choice for an EV start-up company that, if we are honest, remains in a fragile state in their timeline.

          In the end, all is good. We all want a great vehicle and I am confident that is something we all have in common.

          • John Voules

            Member
            July 18, 2022 at 8:21 pm

            Thx Paul for your explanation. I may have a bit of finesse issues which my cutthroat style. I’ll try and figure out how I can remove the start of that post.

            My point though still stands….you are fighting against the wishes of APTARA’s management for reasons you may not be aware of. It is great to question, but not great to respond without knowing the answers.

            • Paul Schultz

              Member
              July 19, 2022 at 3:20 am

              They have spelled out very clearly their wishes at least for one aspect. It is that aspect I expressed disagreement with. It can’t be more clear when they state they want the Tesla connector to be the US standard and started a petition to congress to make that happen. I think the discrepancy with all the back and forth on this thread and elsewhere is the fact there are two parts to what Aptera is doing: 1) strongly hinting at using the Tesla connector… that part is their decision as a business. We all will get whichever connector they decide on. No discussion on the forum or social media will likely change their business decision. 2) Crusading for the Tesla connector to be the US standard and asking backers to sign a petition.

              Number 1 is their choice and I can go in either direction, CCS or Tesla. It is only a plug for me and will serve me well in either format.

              Number 2 is not a requirement at all for an early EV start-up company. I don’t have to agree with this aspect. Others have mentioned this is a publicity opportunity and it gets Aptera in the forefront of EV news. This is the only benefit I see for Number 2.

  • John Voules

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    No worries…as far as I can see, there were opposing views on managements proposition included on the same page.

    Please educate me as to your point of introduction, not understanding your reference?

    My statement was not there to offend! My apologies if it did.

    • Norman Roberts

      Moderator
      July 17, 2022 at 2:27 pm

      John

      I think he was referring to the NOTHANKS

      • John Voules

        Member
        July 17, 2022 at 2:46 pm

        Thx Norman…sometimes the obvious is not so apparent.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 4:24 pm

    Lol much as I disagree with the original petition a 1 sentence petition with typos will definitely not get my support. I see the issue with the original tesla plug petition in the dependency on a single company and limitations for large vehicles (CCS can scale where the tesla plug is reaching practical engineering limits). I don’t feel that the tesla plus is the right choice for large high power vehicles and the petition wasn’t to accept the tesla plug as valid standard but to replace the industry for ALL EV CHARGING (not just for Aptera). 800v vehicles with 150+ kwh packs will need CCS to achieve reasonable charge times. As battery densities rise and larger EVs are made this problem will get worse.

    I’m honestly completely fine with the tesla plug on the aptera if they can meeting these requirements:

    • Tesla superchargers will be available for reasonable prices and the deal will guarantee that tesla wont disable all our access.
    • CCS adapters will be available (many locations especially in canada only have CCS available – Check Alternative Fuels Data Center). CCS sites (not plugs) outnumber superchargers 8 to 1 in canada and almost 4 to 1 in the US.
    • The charge location will not require parking at odd angles to reach (supercharge cables are really short). I suspect it may need to be moved to the rear-left behind the tail light like Teslas.
  • Nicholas Dedoszak

    Member
    July 18, 2022 at 8:18 am

    I simply created and posted this petition to give individuals who do not want a tesla charging plug, I am not engaging with anyone further, since most of the people are replying to complain, not contribute to a real conversation.

  • Lisa Hillard

    Member
    July 18, 2022 at 2:59 pm

    While I’m on the fence for Aptera using Tesla charge ports, there are pros and cons, I’m not in favor of making those chargers the US Standard. Europe has already called CCS their standard, forcing Tesla to make changes there. To push to make them the standard here is, to me, counterproductive.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      July 19, 2022 at 11:50 am

      Just because the eurocrats of the EU decided to ram an inferior standard, doesn’t mean these United States have to meekly follow that dictate.

      • Lisa Hillard

        Member
        July 19, 2022 at 12:46 pm

        FYI, Tesla is adding CCS to it’s US network as well, and, supposedly, will be opening up that network to non-Tesla EVs. So it’s not just the “eurocrats”.

        But, more importantly, is CCS actually inferior to Tesla?

        Currently, Tesla chargers need to have extra circuitry *in the car* to handle both AC & DC charging, CCS does not. From an efficiency standpoint, which one is better?

        I agree that Tesla’s “pump handle” is much more elegant. But, Tesla’s charger being as small as it is may also limit it’s abilities to grow to super fast (over 350) charging. My understanding is that it’s a physical limitation of how close the pins can be to each other to achieve the higher rates. Obviously, the larger CCS pump will have less issues in this regard.

        At the moment, Tesla’s charging network is stellar. But it’s also had quite the head start on the other networks. Those networks are growing and getting better, and they are mostly using CCS. Do you now slow that growth, and possibly stop it altogether, by demanding all those networks now use Tesla’s charger?

        There’s a lot of nuances in this discussion. And points can be made for either charger. I’m just not onboard with petitioning the government to pick a particular standard. Especially since our government isn’t known for being the most tech savvy people. LOL

        • Ray Holan

          Moderator
          July 19, 2022 at 1:35 pm

          Nicely put, Lisa. Apterae can’t take advantage of the faster charging rates — like over 350 DCFC — but some of the current and future models from other manufacturers do (or will). In my mind, a standard should include as many vehicle models as possible and provide for some future growth. It’s an acknowledged fact, as you stated, that Tesla (for all its virtues) has a current flow limit that leaves too many vehicles wanting more than it can support.

        • Dennis Swaney

          Member
          July 19, 2022 at 2:09 pm

          Use of a J1772 plug will require a redesign/relocation of the port on the Aptera; an even greater redesign/relocation will be required for a CCS plug. I saw some YouTube videos comparing the four different plugs (the two above plus Tesla & CHADEMO) and saw how cumbersome and clunky the three non-Tesla designs are. Here are some links to them:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFOJulv77hw

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51JTXo8r0Xc

          • John Voules

            Member
            July 19, 2022 at 3:07 pm

            Thx Dennis, just watched the second vid on chargers and adapters…Very Informative. At the end of it all, as long as I’m not using the clunkiest of nozzles (gas pump) I believe we will all greatly benefit.

  • David Jones

    Member
    July 18, 2022 at 5:21 pm

    My opinion isn’t terribly important, as I am not an investor. But sometimes it’s better to be a good team player and trust the coach’s gameplan. Not always, but usually. Aptera has their reasons and they have requested our help. And it was a pretty quick process. Literally seconds. If that helps get Apteras into production (sooner? or at all?), why wouldn’t you fill out a simple form? No need to rock the boat over something as inconsequential as this. You probably will only have to use the plug a handful of times in the lifespan of the vehicle. Enjoy your freedom from having to worry about silly chargers. 🙂

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      July 19, 2022 at 12:09 pm

      This decision has long term impacts for the industry. The tesla plug is reaching its engineering (thermal dissipation) limits and very likely cannot handle 800V. CCS has engineering headroom. Americans will not change their demands and will continue to buy trucks and SUVs and to electrify these without massively long charging times needs CCS. In the highly unlikely scenario this is successful it could delay the EV transition. Batteries will continue to improve allowing larger and faster charging and the tesla plug cant keep up. Its a great and elegant plug for small cars but will fail for large vehicles with 150+ kwh packs. Here is a charge curve analysis from insideEVs which shows the charging rate cliff as the tesla plug reached its limits.

      The tesla plug functionally dictates the location of the charge port and a friend of mine with a model 3 verified he couldnt reach the center of his vehicles license plate when parking squarely in a stall; if we get that plug it will need to move behind the rear lights.

      PS: I would absolutely support tesla plugs being recognized as A standard for the purpose of government funding just not the ONLY allowed option as the petition attempts. Here in canada CCS sites already outnumber superchargers 8 to 1 and in the US it is 3 to 1. Yes tesla has great interstate coverage but for rural locations it fails terribly. Allowing both and making adapters commonly available with related safety / compatibility certifications satisfies everyones needs.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    July 19, 2022 at 3:33 pm

    Lots of strong emotions and opinions for both sides. A good conversation all around.

    If I may, I’ll add this; Having only one choice as the stand is dangerous. Remember when the Ma Bell phone company had nearly every phone as a hostage? They set the server, they set the rates and there’s was nothing you could do about it. That is, until they were broken up.

    For me this is the same for chargers. There must be competition. I like Aptera and I like Tesla but having us give one organization the sole control of the American charger system is a no. Will this be only the plugs? What’s wrong with adapters? I’ve seen some that prevent others from removing them while you’re having lunch. Higher rates can have their type of plug (with your adapter) right next to the tesla just like Premium Gas does at the pump.

    I don’t use Fast Charging stations. I’m never in that much of a hurry that time is a factor. Some are, I get that.

    Let the chargers fall where they may. Equip your vehicles with whatever plug and let the clients find their own charge stations. If it becomes too much to bare buy an adapter.

    For my needs, I’d like to keep the Tesla plug. Firstly because I already have the cable and I heard Tesla is not charging about $400 for one. Secondly, I like the design and I think it will fit the needs of the Aptera.

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