Further Discussion on the Yoke. CleanTechnica Article from 4/7/22

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Further Discussion on the Yoke. CleanTechnica Article from 4/7/22

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Further Discussion on the Yoke. CleanTechnica Article from 4/7/22

  • Further Discussion on the Yoke. CleanTechnica Article from 4/7/22

     kerbe2705 updated 2 months, 3 weeks ago 19 Members · 34 Posts
  • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

    Member
    April 7, 2022 at 8:32 pm

    Further Discussion on the Yoke. CleanTechnica Article from 4/7/22

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    April 7, 2022 at 8:45 pm

    It appears you forgot the link to it, here it is…..

    https://cleantechnica.com/2022/04/07/aptera-defends-choosing-a-yoke-steering-wheel/

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 5:17 am

      Thanks, it was there when I started, I swear it.

    • Lou Verner

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 5:25 am

      Sensible review of yolk controversy by Sensiba. I agree with her perspective. I’m neither a hater/fan of yolk, having never used one. I will reserve judgement of Aptera’s until they arrive at final version and I actually experience during my planned “try before you buy” test drive. Aptera’s yolk seems more extreme than Tesla’s (or the one recently revealed for the new Lexus EV) in terms of graspable surface area and I’m guessing would be annoying to use when trying to back into a parking space or parallel park given your hands have less than 4-8 o’clock area available. I’m a one hand on top of the steering wheel driver most of the time when not in traffic, when I resort to 10-2 position. I’ve recently tried steering with hands in comparable zone to what Aptera’s yolk would offer and found it very tiresome and actually somewhat painful on my wrists as they’re in underhand vs overhand position. Hopefully by time my order comes up (2023-2024), they’ll offer round wheel as extra expense option or aftermarket ones will be available.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 6:40 am

    As a design element, did you notice the yoke is a happy face? It’s certainly a unique take on a steering wheel. Normally a yoke is meant in evoke a fighter plane but Aptera’s is just the opposite, instead of a weapon of war it’s warm and friendly.

    • Arlen Bell

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 6:49 am

      I guess follows the logic of car designers to make the front of cars have a smiling face. If my car can drive itself safely the smiling yoke is ok, but if I have to use it, I want something I can drive without having to have “spaghetti arms”.

    • Lou Verner

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 7:03 am

      Happy face yoke, sad/grumpy/frowny face driver???? Form should always follow Function!

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 11:59 am

    Like most here, I’ve never driven a car with a yoke, so I might be wrong in this observation. Since this yoke actually has a nearly half of a circle at the bottom (the smile!), perhaps that half circle gives you something to grip as you turn the wheel for a turn? I realize, this would probably require some personal adjustment from steering a traditional wheel, but not that much of a learning curve to get comfortable with quickly. I do plan to do a test drive before I buy, whether it’s a meet up with an ambassador who already has one for me to try or flying out to San Diego.

    • Paul Kirchner

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 2:51 pm

      Yes, the bottom half appears to be circular. Comparisons with other yokes out there with flat bottoms are only valid to a point.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 3:49 pm

    I am all for Yokes, as long as the ratio of turn angle is considerably less than vehicles with a standard roundish steering wheel. Most of you know this is known as turns to lock. I to not like this particular design or the materials shown in video. High maintenance to keep clean. Coming from the automotive industry I have experienced several types of steering system. Personally I would like the sides to be slightly higher (10 and 2 o’clock). the support to be connect to the yoke at 8 and 4 o’clock, with tear drop shaped thumb pads on the inside near the tops of the yoke for the controls. This will offer better visibility to the dash and windshield and make the buttons easier to access as long as you have thumbs. An optional yoke may have the controls on the front and rear surfaces mirrored by each other for easy access to those that have different hand usage.

    I know these videos are not the final version, and until I drive one I will now know for sure how I like the design. That being said, I find the yoke in the video very unattractive.

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 3:56 pm

      Like this?

      • Vernon Michael Gardner

        Member
        April 8, 2022 at 4:22 pm

        That is a good starting point. I am not a computer artist, I would like to see the buttons more inside the yoke and lower. This picture is a great way to look at another design, and I like it more than the one in Aptera’s image.

        I just noticed the trim settings, lol. Beech Craft air plane?

  • Ron Ledohowski

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 4:31 pm

    Open your mind to change. I like it. Lexus too.

    • Vernon Michael Gardner

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 4:49 pm

      The Lexus steering is very good looking, and until I try it I won’t know how I would like it. The buttons seem to be better thought out.

    • V Pilot

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 8:46 pm

      Keep in mind that it’s about 150 degrees lock to lock and uses drive by wire with variable ratio with steering characteristics changeable with a drive mode select. It’s the same for the Toyota models.

      • Vernon Michael Gardner

        Member
        April 8, 2022 at 10:50 pm

        Toyota is good about thorough testing before they bring to market. Nobody’s perfect, but from the description and what I can physically see I bet I would be happy with this setup

        • Lou Verner

          Member
          April 9, 2022 at 5:16 am

          I agree that from its appearance I would be happy with Lexus yoke – greater overhand position options almost up to 10-2, and place to rest hand at top. Maybe Aptera should looking to Toyota more than Tesla for ideas!

  • Alex L

    Member
    April 9, 2022 at 10:51 am

    They’re definitely playing around with different styles/form factors of yokes… check out this recent test drive video from AOC:

    https://youtu.be/gSyJMwbTJCI?t=121

    I like this design a lot more than the one shown in the latest renders!

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    April 9, 2022 at 11:27 am

    A tsunami of yokes is coming. The 1M preorder of Cyber Trucks will come with yokes. All future Model S and X will come with yokes. Lexus is switching to yokes. Only a matter of time until Toyota branded cars do as well.

    I was disappointed to hear that the Cyber Truck yoke will retain the same 14.0:1.0 steering ratio that causes difficulty with steering at low speeds. I had assumed that the Tesla Cyber Truck implementation would be drive by wire variable ratio. I hade hoped, since Aptera seems to track with Tesla that the Aptera yoke would be drive by wire variable ratio. I do not believe the case now.

    I have defended the Aptera yoke, some times vehemently. I am officially changing that to “Skeptical” even though I have driven a Tesla yoke without issue.

    So, apologies to all Aptera yoke opponents! We need to know more about the Aptera yoke implementation

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 12:01 pm

      Over time, my vehement opposition to a yoke has softened a bit. It seems we may have converged on “skeptical” simultaneously, but from opposite positions. As you imply, it’s all about how it is implemented.

      One thing that becomes clearer during the drive in the video is that having the yoke is primarily or exclusively about making the side view screens visible. If this is the case, I would have preferred that they apply a little more creativity to the placement of the screen(s), and a little less to reinventing the wheel.

      An idea I had was that maybe they could stitch the side view images together with the rear view image into one wider screen where the central rear view screen is located. Then they would be free to have a full wheel. There may be obstacles to this I haven’t considered. Maybe it wouldn’t meet regulations.

      In any case, I’m currently undecided about if I could reconcile myself to a yoke implemented with a regular steering rack. There’s just so much else about Aptera I really like that I might be tempted, but I doubt I’ll ever believe that a yoke is necessary, or an improvement.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Bob Kirchner.
      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        April 10, 2022 at 3:43 am

        Regardless of the yoke outcome, I think your idea of a “Stitched” view of left, center, and right view is a good idea! One place to look for a comprehensive view. Do not have to look up and right for rear then in front for left and right side.

        Yoke with regular steering rack, even with electric power steering (No fly by wire and variable ratio) is troublesome. I had thought/hoped that Aptera would have a solution that included variable ratio steering and that was their technical justification for going with a yoke.

        I guess that is what comes for being young and naïve

        • Bob Kirchner

          Member
          April 10, 2022 at 12:46 pm

          Don’t say “naive”. “Hopeful” is better. I choose to remain skeptical, but hopeful. They still haven’t said that it WON’T come with some sort of variable ratio setup. N. Bruce Nelson seems convinced they have a pending solution. So, it could happen?

          About the stitched image: I caught from the various ride-alongs in the Beta that they used an old-school version of the same thing, which has an array of rear view mirrors across the full width of the top of the windscreen. I think it used to be call a “wing mirror” or “wink mirror”: a low-tech solution to the same problem.

    • V Pilot

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 12:14 pm

      Tesla says that their drive by wire is years away. Their FSD will most likely get all their attention and be fully functional before drive by wire, thus negating the need for it.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  V Pilot.
      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  V Pilot.
      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        April 9, 2022 at 5:20 pm

        From the engineering perspective, it will be hard to have an effective and reliable FSD without fly by wire computer controlled steering with functioning ratio steering. There is a startup EV company that claims to have redundant (Needed for failure mode remediation) steer by wire which allows them to locate the steering wheel on either side for US/European/Australian delivery.

        I am a space system engineer and not intimately familiar with vehicle systems engineering, but I intend to dive into the EV company’s technology to see if t is vapor or the real thing. The company is Canoo.

        Commercial airliners have had steer by wire for a long time. If it can be made to work in three dimensions then it should not be a difficult task to make it work in two. The Navy has a carrier landing system that will land a fighter on an aircraft carrier pilot hands off. Probably the most difficult fly by wire challenge.

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: deleted duplicate phrase
        • V Pilot

          Member
          April 9, 2022 at 5:29 pm

          I have no problem with fly, drive, or ride by wire systems. I have experienced it on motorcycles

          • Jonah Jorgenson

            Member
            April 9, 2022 at 5:30 pm

            Oh, didn’t know it was in the motor cycle domain as well. Thanks for the learning experience

  • Raj Giandeep

    Member
    April 9, 2022 at 12:31 pm

    I’m open to trying the yoke. I think it’s fine for everyday driving. For racing on autocross tracks, may be a little challenging & would want a uniform wheel just for racing.

  • Peter Dezendorf

    Member
    April 9, 2022 at 4:44 pm

    Don’t like the yoke? (Not yolk.)

    Take a hula hoop, or other circular plastic device. Cut out a section. Glue/Velcro/clamp it to the yoke. Now you have a wheel.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 5:24 pm

      Well, you had the solution all along. why didn’t you tell us sooner so we could have avoided all of this controversy 😉

    • V Pilot

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 5:36 pm

      That’s basically what T Sportline does.

  • Elzo Stubbe

    Member
    April 10, 2022 at 3:04 am

    Aptera will surprise us with a pleasant Yoke experience. I am sure!

  • Matthew Modesitt

    Member
    April 10, 2022 at 11:11 am

    Ya’ll are missing the Bandit Child’s Face with One Tooth in the Yoke!

  • Donald Zerrip

    Member
    April 11, 2022 at 7:23 pm

    I would be interested in seeing video of the moose test, handling in roundabouts, parking and reversing maneuvers being performed with a yoke in a gamma vehicle. Preferably by someone with extensive driving steering wheel experience but limited or no yoke driving experience.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      April 11, 2022 at 10:25 pm

      A recent ride-along video shows that the Luna Alpha has been fitted with a yoke.

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