Gamma features discussion thread.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Gamma features discussion thread.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Gamma features discussion thread.

  • Gamma features discussion thread.

     Mark Elliott updated 2 weeks, 1 day ago 45 Members · 117 Posts
  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 6:23 am

    A thread to note what we’ve learned from last weekend’s Gamma reveal, factory tour videos, etc.

    Here’s what I have:

    Cargo space is now 28 cubic feet.

    Elaphe motors no longer need seal replacements.

    Batteries are 23, 45, 66, and 99 kWh.

    Third seat will be a thing. Seats are NOT height adjustable.

    It will be wrapped.

    The knob-like thing at the back serves as a charge port light, plate light and reverse light.

    Hatch is knock to open, like the doors.

    It has a functioning wiper and seat belts.

    It has functioning solar panels.

    Ventilation is through the screen surround. There will also be foot level and defrost vents.

    Lights are controlled by a stalk on the left of the steering column. Buttons control the door release, interior lights and hazard flashers. Everything else is controlled from the screen.

    They are proud of the specs of the center headlight, but I don’t remember those specs or know how to compare them to other vehicles.

    They are still planning a hitch, but that’s on the back burner for now.

    Still no word on Bags of Air, or the exact functioning of the steering system.

    What did I miss?

  • Joel Smith

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 6:37 am

    That’s a pretty good list.

    Add that the Plus & Minus pedals are up-cycled skateboard deck material (maple plywood). Seems a bit gimmicky there.

    And the little circular objects on the front edge of the wheel pants are ultrasonic sensors. Pretty sure that’s what I heard Chris say.

    Looked like there were two similar circular objects on the back of the keel also. One a camera, the other another ultrasonic sensor maybe?

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 4 days ago by  Joel Smith.
    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 6:57 am

      Yes those two dots are a camera and a sensor.

      I forgot to include that Gamma has a Tesla plug, but there was no new information about how they are negotiating to make that possible for production.

    • M T

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 3:40 pm

      It seems to me I hate everything the “interior designer” works on. Cat face yoke, +/- pedals with recycled skateboard decks, stupid bungie cupholders.

      It’s too bad because the outside is all business, purpose built. I guess I’m asking too much to get a set of aluminum pedals, a real!black steering wheel and a real clip on set of cup holders…

      • Donald Crittenden

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 10:01 am

        I love everything I see about the Aptera… except the cup holders. The cup holders are the one thing I immediately would look for a replacement.

      • James Gatan

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 7:26 pm

        The LACK of interior roof grab handles (standard on nearly every vehicle, sans a convertible) is a LET DOWN.

        How can Aptera overlook this..

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by  James Gatan.
        • John Trotter

          Moderator
          September 14, 2022 at 7:02 pm

          James. Interesting point. Holding onto the raised door provides some overhead stability, but impossible to judge without experimenting. (My Tesla has no grab handles and I have not missed them.)

      • Mark Elliott

        Member
        September 14, 2022 at 11:49 pm

        Was at the show this weekend; was skeptical of interior before sitting in it. Everything really felt amazing to me. The center console’s organic-composite material+color+texture, and the skateboard-deck pedals: these things likely not mass-producible exactly as seen. The cup holders: held a 1.5L + 24oz water bottles I had; but the materials in the cup-holders: whoa. So well done. The Hello-Kitty Steering control: I don’t care if it comes in a version that looks like a Batman face for people that want it; if it’s made of these materials, it’s a Win. Feels very nice. I Hope everything is durable, (felt like it was easily wipeable?) but my main take-away: Gamma interior feels very premium. Am 190cm tall; (6ft,3″) Felt I had 80-100mm clearance above my head, at minimum.

        • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  Mark Elliott. Reason: "wheel" to "control"
  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 6:46 am

    I assume that the battery sizes listed are gross not available. My reading of this is that the 250,400 and 600 mile versions are all going to meet the range promises. For the smallest version they are going to beat the efficiency number by a lot, 12-12.5 Miles/KWh instead of 10. That makes sense because the car will be so light. The 45KWh and 66KWh will come in around the promised 10 miles/KWh, the extra 5 and 6 KWHs are the buffers to protect the battery. The version that’s not going to meet it range promise is the 99KWh, it’s going to be 900 miles not 1000, still a ridiculously long range but not the eye catching number it was. I presume that the reason it’s 99KWh and not 110KWh is that they ran out of room, they simply couldn’t stuff any more batteries into the car. It’s going to be a long time before they build the 1000 mile version, they might wait until they can get a 10% better battery which would allow them to hit the original range objective. However if they want a round number they could still advertise the 66KWh variant as 1000 kilometers, that should be good enough.

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 7:41 am

      One possibility, Early on it was stated that they would have to find room/space for the 1,000 pack, the 99 may refer to the main pack as shown, and additional smaller packs might be inserted behind the seats or elsewhere to make up the difference.

  • Paul Kirchner

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 7:43 am

    The internet was all in a twist about sun visors so now we can all calm down. Yes! Sun Visors!

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 8:08 am

      Though to be honest they are tiny, tiny sun visors, with HUGE gaps. Driving west late in the day will be problematic.

      • John Voules

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 8:19 am

        I thought the same, I’m sure that if they don’t make changes to the visor that I will need to add an extra attachment to widen my visual protection from the sun. Maybe add extra solar panels on the visor itself that can protrude a little further😁

      • Russell Fauver

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 8:43 am

        Might not be too bad driving west in the evenings. Yes it looks small but it depends on how it’s mounted. It looked to me like the mount was adjustable at the elbow. I only had a quick look but if that’s the case it should be pretty easy to put it where it’s needed. Also, if the visor can be slid back and forth on the horizontal part of the mount then it could positioned almost anywhere on the windshield.

      • Markus Schmid

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 9:30 am

        The sun visors are big enough to throw a shade on your the eyevballs. Nothing more is needed to not get blinded by the sun. unless you are changing Aptera’s orientation in space faster than a squirrel you’ll be fine in 99,999% of all the time, just like you might (or might not) be with any other sun visor that doesn’t fit seamlessly to the outlines of the whole upper half of the windscreen frame, including complete coverage the centre.

        • Bob Kirchner

          Member
          September 12, 2022 at 1:38 pm

          I guess I’m spoiled because my 17 year old VW has a little visor that flips down above the rear view mirror in the centre, offering nearly complete coverage.

          • Dennis Swaney

            Member
            September 12, 2022 at 7:37 pm

            Bob, my ’05 Jetta has that and I find it mostly useless. There are large gaps to the left (at least 2cm) & right (3cm) and a 7cm one between it and the top of the mirror. While there is a pattern of small black polka dots on the glass in the area behind the mirror, they do zilch in reducing the sun’s rays. I’m going to see about having opaque black film put in that area, probably a 10cm x 30cm piece.

            I’ll have to see how the visors on the Aptera work across the whole top 10cm of the glass; if I have the same blinding sun problem, I”l just see about sticking some solar cells/squares on the affected area(s).

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 9:24 am

      I went back and had another look at the visors… I’m not impressed. But hey, it’s their first try at making a visor. And this isn’t their production-ready vehicle so they have time to make changes.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 7:58 am

    The 3rd seat option will only be available on the 200 mile version as the smaller battery pack will allow room for it.

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 8:21 am

      Your extrapolating a whole lot from a single sentence. We should probably wait for a better explanation from Aptera.

      • Bernd Zeugswetter

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 9:09 am

        A third seat is a new priority for me. I will adjust to whatever battery pack will allow the 3rd seat.

    • Francis Giroux

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 12:51 pm

      What? Is the third seat going to be under the floor where the batteries are? Seat for a squirrel?

      I have suggested for two years now that if you remove the arm rest center consul you can put a cushion between the seats to make room for a third person to sit. That center space has gotten smaller now that they have moved the seats 20 mm toward the center (40 mm or 1.6 inches total), room for a small person to sit while sharing foot room with the passenger in the right seat. I think their likely option for a third seat will include pushing the seats back out where the were or introducing a bench seat, or hybrid seat like I had once in a Ford Ranger (bucket seat for driver and 1 1/2 wide bucket seat with added width cushion area for the passenger(s). Note the second picture might be for a right hand drive car.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 8:15 am

    This Gamma is the first implication of there solar and without having an announced solar cell supplier and the somewhat crude application on the roof, we should expect improvements to it. Also it was said to have only been installed days before the show. They have also said they found that they are pioneering this tech on vehicles, resulting in the large effort and extra time they are putting into this.

    Hopefully to assure actual production by early 2023 they will have to pick a supplier of solar cells soon to have them made in quantity to their specifications. They did announced that they will be assembling the panels at there facility near there assembly building.

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 1:48 pm

      I think, though I am often wrong, that the cell supplier was chosen long ago. The name escapes me now.

      • Alain Chuzel

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 6:55 am

        The solar cell supplier may have been “chosen” long ago but Aptera hasn’t “officially” announced who it is. The name that “escapes” you is Maxeon/SunPower.

        • Bob Kirchner

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 12:09 pm

          That’s the one. Thanks.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 7:02 am

      I’ve obtained a few pics/vids of the solar panels Aptera brought to the show and intend to study them and give a “critique” some time soon. Overall they looked great but there is plenty of room for improvement. By the way, “looking great” and “being great” are two different things. Finally, as I’ve more than suggested before, they are not “pioneering” so much as “re-inventing” as high quality, high performance solar on compound curves has been done since, at least, the late 80’s (as in 1980’s).

      • Russell Fauver

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 9:27 am

        I’m interested to hear your opinion about the cells. Please keep us posted.

        • Alain Chuzel

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 3:24 pm

          Will do.

      • Francis Giroux

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 3:23 pm

        Alain: Could go post those pictures and videos on this forum so we could see them too? Thanks.

        • Alain Chuzel

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 3:25 pm

          Sorry, yes, I plan to.

  • Patrick Troutman

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 8:33 am

    I learned they need to still do some work on those cup holders in the center console….

    • John Hermann

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 9:28 am

      Agree on that one. The center console, and to a lesser degree the yoke, seem to be mild misses from a functional aesthetic standpoint.

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 9:49 am

      Agreed, cup holder looks pitiful. But it looks like they’re keeping the center console accessories detachable. So I’m sure there will be lots of aftermarket options.

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 1:41 pm

        Yeah, I’m a heavy drinker (diet cola- the demon’s drink), so I’ll need to bodge some better solution.

      • John Voules

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 8:32 pm

        My plans are to go to Weather tech and hopefully have them design new cup holders along with floor and cargo mats.

        • James Gatan

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 7:42 pm

          That would be awesome, John. Yes please. I am a huge believer of WeatherTech. I use lightweight DigitalFit ones now on my 2014 Mazda6, procured since new 9yrs ago. The rear trunk mat now is actually 22yrs old (still going strong, and condition looks surprisingly new) The fitment is so spot on, from my old ride, a 2000 Passat Wagon.

  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 8:51 am

    Long and slightly chaotic Q&A Here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvdmVFu4HgE

    Slow speed cooling provided by small internal rad supplied with fresh air from back edge of the hood.

    Third seat again described as aspirational.

    Seats are not heated at this time.

    “dog mode” a future upgrade.

    • Jeffrey May

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 12:35 am

      “Slow speed cooling provided by small internal rad supplied with fresh air from back edge of the hood.Slow speed cooling provided by small internal rad supplied with fresh air from back edge of the hood.”

      That’s hugely reassuring. I knew skin cooling wouldn’t be sufficient at low/zero speeds and was worried they weren’t planning to incorporate a forced-air radiator due to space constraints. So that’s a big relief. But I’d still love to learn more about the nitty-gritty details of the overall cooling system design.

      (FYI: the bit above about the radiator is mentioned around 9:00 in the video.)

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 3:11 am

        I had speculated that this would be the case, although in my imagination the fan would blow air across the reverse surface of the cooling pan.

      • Trevor Anderson

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 9:12 am

        This gives me hope for some vehicle to load/home connectivity. I would love to retire my Honda Eu2200 for home power purposes (also the ability to run our 220V stove rather than cooking off the grill during outages would make her happy as well)

      • John Trotter

        Moderator
        September 14, 2022 at 7:20 pm

        I believe all cooling, at any speed, will be provided by a metal plate heat exchanger inset into the belly of the car. Air on outside, of course, and pumped liquid cooling on the other side. That liquid will cool the battery and AC. Fan is for AC service, not battery. Heat will rise off the plate up along the car body. The Aptera heat load will be relatively low, given the relatively small battery and the (probably) relatively (to Tesla for example) low charge rate (stationary) and high efficiency (moving). A flat-plate heat exchanger can transfer plenty of energy, even in stagnant, hot, air.

        • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

          Member
          September 14, 2022 at 7:37 pm

          Per one of the engineers in an AOC video at the show. Low speed/stopped cooling will be provided by a cross connection of some sort to the A/C cooling.

  • Norman Roberts

    Moderator
    September 12, 2022 at 9:17 am

    There were Air bags front driver and passenger .

    Gray areas on wheel pants and rear wheel covers were only representations and not actual foam material that will be used.

    2 cameras on rear, 1 for back up the other for rearview mirror

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 9:44 am

      Where were the airbags located?

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 1:45 pm

        I missed them too, and they never came up in the discussions I watched.

        • Francis Giroux

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 3:30 pm

          They came up in the video above. He said one is in the yoke and the other in the depressed area on the passenger side of the top of the dash.

      • Peter Jorgensen

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 9:12 am

        In the Q&A it sounds like the passenger front airbag is in the dash now not the seatbelt.

        • Bob Kirchner

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 12:13 pm

          And I saw a video with some early Gamma interior components including a partially disassembled steerin… uh, yoke which had a pretty large barrel shaped hollowed out space in its hub, so…

          I guess we’ve solved it.

          • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 2 days ago by  Bob Kirchner.
      • John Trotter

        Moderator
        September 14, 2022 at 7:30 pm

        OZ et al, I am still wondering how the airbags will work in side impact. Other cars need sidewall curtains and Tesla reportedly even has a curtain between front occupants. Aptera’s lateral acceleration in a side impact will be relatively high, given the strength of the shell and the lack of crush space. (Basically, as I see it, the shell does not crush, so term may need to be “distortion space”.) I will just continue to have faith in engineering simulation or, in the end, testing.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 9:26 am

    Headlight. I thought I heard them mention it cast a 150 degree wide beam. I don’t know how that compares to the standard headlight but they did seem proud of it. I like the looks of it.

  • Jerry Molnar

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 9:38 am

    I’m not happy about a wrap, out in the sun it will be lucky to last 5years, I know Chris said it’s more environmentally friendly and cheaper but I can see these looking ratty after a short time and that won’t be good PR for a car that is supposed to be generational. Just my 2cents

    • Kevin Bradbury

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 10:49 am

      I feel something I can’t put into proper words that they reveal a painted Gamma but say vehicle will be wrapped. First words sound too harsh in my head and others don’t properly convey….maybe….disappointed?

      • John Voules

        Member
        September 12, 2022 at 12:22 pm

        Good Point Kevin…I didn’t understand why they went through all the trouble to paint Gama in the 1st place. It conveys to me that this is something you can’t get.

        Also a good point was made, in a marketing sense in a few years if some passerby looks at an APTERA up close for the 1st time…do you really want them to look a vehicle who’s wrap is coming apart?

        • Kevin Bradbury

          Member
          September 12, 2022 at 4:59 pm

          The video below allayed one of my fears. First time I actually heard someone from Aptera speak the words that it does have HVAC. Woohoo!🙂

          In the factory reveal videos as Gamma is driven in, it looks like the front wheel pant angles down towards the back as the vehicle is turning. Don’t know if that is an optical illusion or an action caused by the turn. Anybody else notice or have any ideas. I noticed it in other videos filmed by different attendees at different angles as well.🤔

    • Scott Gilbert

      Member
      September 14, 2022 at 12:18 am

      And for a solar car that is expected to live out under the harsh sun for the solar benefits. UV can be very damaging to skin!

  • Loren Gilbert

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 10:50 am

    Things I saw that I have not seen before:

    Third break light at the top of the rear hatch cover.

    No solar panels on the nose. Also it appears that the only functional solar panels are those on the roof as they are the only ones with the copper connections.

    Small hatch cover of unknown purpose at bottom of the inside B pillar.

    Huge block at the rear of the inside compartment for the hatch latch loop.

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 12:19 pm

      Loren, if I read you right, the hatch cover at the base of the B pillar is one of two each behind the seats, that are supposed to be access to storage compartments.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 6:51 am

      A “nose” solar panel was on a table at the booth at the show and it, too, had the “un-tinned” (i.e., bare) copper cell to cell interconnects and sub-string to sub-string interconnects (or “bussing”).

  • Elzo Stubbe

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 10:57 am

    The skin cooling system is operational…..

  • GREG MIRICH

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 11:04 am

    The life of wraps can be extended by periodically applying a ceramic coating, this will also make it easier to keep clean and make the surface slicker.

  • Jeffrey May

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 12:28 pm

    “Ventilation is through the screen surround. There will also be foot level and defrost vents.”

    Can someone point to where this is discussed? e.g., a video link and a timestamp, if possible. Thanks!

    • Paul Kirchner

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 1:43 pm

      At the 13:51 mark here

  • Tim Dean

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 3:23 pm

    Chris did say that Gamma is only 80% of Delta and that the “Delta pencil in was almost complete”. Still, we should expect that ongoing testing will cause small (component level) changes such as larger sun-visors. I did see a photo of a “fronk” some time ago, but no idea if it remains but it would be a convenient charger & tool storage. The bonnet must open anyway to add windshield & brake fluids and possibly change the cabin air filter. Still a ways to go.

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by  Tim Dean.
    • Kevin Bradbury

      Member
      September 12, 2022 at 4:38 pm

      In the other video in this thread that was filmed on a cell phone by one of the Aptera staff at the reveal. Someone asked him if it has a frunk and he said no that it is a crumple zone, the front suspension and HVAC.

  • Joseph Wall

    Member
    September 12, 2022 at 9:14 pm

    In the factory reveal videos, you can see the Gamma drive in and turn very slightly, as it drives to where it parks for the presentation. When it turns, the wheel pant on the inside of the turn dives backwards, as in it tilts towards the ground at the back, and the one on the outside tilts forwards. The tilt is rather dramatic, the type of thing that could prevent you from reversing out of your driveway if there’s a 1 inch bump at the end and you have to turn while you’re reversing, which is a common situation. It makes me wonder if they’ll change the shape of the wheel pant at this point to be more sloped in the back like it is in the front so it doesn’t hit the ground, or if this is an anomaly with the Gamma suspension and that’s what’s causing the orientation of the wheel pants to tilt forwards and backwards. Either way, this definitely has to change for the production vehicle, or I guess the off road kit will be a requirement for me, because I literally can’t reverse out of my driveway with that level of clearance at the rear of the wheel pant while turning.

    • Riley …

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 1:12 am

      This is my only concern with the gamma reveal with them strengthening the wheel pants going over a speed bump while turning may couse damage. Hopefully the wheel pants have some kind of give but that won’t help if it catches a ridge while reversing. Aptera must already know about this and will make adjustments.

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 3:22 am

      For those interested, it’s at 6:50 in Raj’s improved audio version of the factory tour video. It’s pretty extreme, and I agree it’s a problem. Good catch.

      It is unlikely that they are going to change Rousch’s suspension geometry, so there will have to be a change in the wheel pants.

      • Sam Adams

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 7:36 pm

        Those pants are a $40 replacement per Chris a while back.

    • Norman Roberts

      Moderator
      September 13, 2022 at 6:57 am

      I spoke with Aptera person at show and the wheel pants on production vehicles will have more clearance

  • David Marlow

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 1:03 am

    Interesting, I did not notice that, however they did mention that the wheel motors on the gamma were not the final version. Also the front and rear of the wheel pants are designed to take some rubbing as some pot holes are deeper than the few inches of ground clearance on the Gamma. We will see in the testing of the Delta’s, if more people will want to order the off road kit to get a few more inches.

    • Francis Giroux

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 3:48 pm

      Also on the factory tour video on the table with Elaphe motors, the green one is on the Gamma, and the silver colored one was said to be the first one produced of the production version. It also looked like it had a structural component that attaches to the suspension parts that looks like it is made out of something not metal, maybe high strength nylon.

  • Konijnerd the Great

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 2:18 am

    hope those lights and wipers will have a automatic mode as well…

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 3:09 am

      Given that the wipers are controlled from the screen, they’ll have to. The lights at least have a switch on the stalk.

    • Sam Adams

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 7:42 pm

      You mean wiper as there is only one.

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 10:56 pm

        True. The plural was by force of habit.

  • Riley …

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 4:19 am

    Looking closely at the “knob-light” for the charge port / license plate I can’t see how it is also a backup light.

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 5:46 am

      During the Gamma reveal at fully charged, in the question and answers at the end, When CA describes the ball, he starts off with “It doesn’t have the rear part yet.” so forthcoming I guess.

      • Kevin Bradbury

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 7:18 am

        I’m not so sure about it also being a backup light. I was thinking the backup/reverse lights were the white sections in the middle of the brake light ovals. In one photo of the knob, it showed a clear lens on only one side facing the license plate/charge port.

        Edit – Well after reviewing the video, the ovals that I thought were brake lights did not illuminate. Just reflectors? Or something just not yet finished out?

        • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 8:01 am

          You know, I’m kinda gonna go with Aptera and Chris Anthony here. They have a bit more first hand knowledge. It’s a reverse light as well.

    • Francis Giroux

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 3:51 pm

      Concerning the back-up light comment above, how can the black ball also be a back-up light unless the bottom of it is clear, not black like the rest of it? But that wouldn’t allow the light to shine very far from the vehicle. I guess 10-20 feet would be all you would need?

      • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

        Member
        September 14, 2022 at 10:38 am

        Let me repeat here, go listen to the video if need be:

        During the Gamma reveal at fully charged, in the question and answers at the end, When CA describes the ball, he starts off with “It doesn’t have the rear part yet.” so forthcoming I guess.

        He was specifically talking about the back up light at that point.

    • Peter Dezendorf

      Member
      September 14, 2022 at 9:03 am

      Motorcycles aren’t required to have a backup light. That might include autocycles.

      • John Trotter

        Moderator
        September 14, 2022 at 7:37 pm

        “Required (by law)” isn’t the point.

  • BLAKE ENGLISH

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 9:47 am

    Did they mention any details about the key/unlock system? I’m hoping a company located in San Diego will keep us surfers in mind when selecting entry key system. Waterproof key fob/entry code (knock pattern? lol) /etc…

    • Rob Spruijt

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 10:01 am

      They demonstrated over the weekend that the doors and hatch can be opened by just knocking on it. Presumably this requires you to have a fob/phone app nearby. There will almost certainly not be a separate key.

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 1:24 pm

      The vehicle will open for you if it recognises your smartphone (not good for surfers) or alternately you can use an rfid card. I assume those are durable enough? I don’t surf so I defer to you.

  • Ron Scholz

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 9:49 am

    I attended Saturday’s session of the Fully Charged unveiling of the Gamma.

    Loved what I saw and placed a pre-order the next day.. Woo Hoo !!

    With that said, there are a couple thing I hope they change:

    1. Center Console material. Please go back to black, like what is shown on the interior order page.

    2. Cup Holder. Please replace with something more functional and easier to clean.

    3. Did not see much cubby storage in the passenger area. You know for small stuff like sun glasses, hand sanitizer, Kleenex, phones, ect..

    Happy Trails

    – Ron

    • Paul Kirchner

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 3:36 pm

      According to the Aptera Club Owners video that was dropped today, the materials on the center console will be different than in the Gamma vehicle shown.

    • Mark Elliott

      Member
      September 15, 2022 at 12:34 am

      Hey Ron, I wanted to provide a counter-point as a reservation holder who was also at the show:

      1.Center console material: what we saw+touched definitely was prototype. It’s an organic composite, but depending on their testing (including spill and durability testing), will determine how it changes for the Delta+launch vehicles. More interesting, the cup holder and center console appear to be replaceable and swappable. Might take a couple years, but there should be some options there.

      2.Cup Holder held my tall 1.5L and shorter 24oz water bottles simultaneously. It was a little shallow to be comfortable with the tall bottle going on/off highways or stop/go traffic, but I was impressed by the materials. The cork-bases in the cup holders: maybe not mass-producible, certainly replaceable. Shoutout: All the Fabrics (including those black elastics) felt super premium: don’t know if that is evidence of the preproduction best-case material samples, but the feel of everything was really impressive to me, a car-guy who has been in a variety of garages over the past 3 decades.

      3. Cubby storage inside doors seemed standard to me; the as-yet unimplemented behind-seat, closed storage cubbies will be in Delta. The full-solar option blacks out the back end: making the entire 28cu.ft rear vault a giant cubby. I hope there is some more options for quick storage.

  • Lane Costilow

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 2:53 pm

    A condensed list of features presented by “Instant Torque”

    • David Marlow

      Member
      September 14, 2022 at 9:27 pm

      The batteries are not upgradeable for significant range increases, but for replacement for newer tech. A significant range increase would also require suspension changes and changes to the belly pan and possibly other parts, to handle the greater weight and a larger pack.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 4:01 pm

    I see side mirrors now , not cameras and monitors on the sides of the dash.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      September 13, 2022 at 4:20 pm

      NHTSA requires them. The cameras are in the side mirror units. This could mean that when the rules are fixed to get the extra efficiency the entire side mirror will need to be replaced with a camera pod.

      • Lane Costilow

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 4:38 pm

        Or perhaps the mirror part is removed, leaving the camera.

      • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 4:39 pm

        Based on what CA said about it being planned for easy removal, I would guess that the physical mirror portion slips over and attaches to the camera, so when the time comes, remove fasteners, discard, rinse and repeat for the opposite side.

      • Paul Kirchner

        Member
        September 13, 2022 at 5:04 pm

        I would like to hear some real numbers on efficiency with and without the mirrors. I’d be satisfied with computer generated numbers.

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          September 13, 2022 at 5:10 pm

          It was asked at Fully Charged but the company doesn’t have numbers for us currently. I think its safe to assume the mirrors have had a negative impact in excess of what was saved by the recent optimizations. Those at the show said the camera was integrated into the mirror and didn’t appear separate (although this might change for production). At the end of the day a camera and plastic housing isn’t that expensive so even if the entire unit needs to be replaced eventually it isn’t that big of a problem.

          • V Pilot

            Member
            September 13, 2022 at 6:49 pm

            I hope they are separate for production. How many vehicles can be produced before the NHTSA rules get changed? Maybe the current backlog? That’s 30K+, which would be 60K+ rear view devices just tossed away.

            • John Voules

              Member
              September 13, 2022 at 6:57 pm

              I for one am grateful for the mirrors. I believe it will take me time to adjust and if I find it’s better for me to leave them on I will. Safety first then efficiency.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    September 13, 2022 at 11:14 pm

    I for one have a love / hate relationship with backup cameras. When they are clean. They are awesome. When it’s raining , or foggy or snowing and they are dirty. They are trash, absolute trash.

    Side note: Dave Kindig did NOT design that center console that has to be the most hideous console ever installed in a car.

    • John Trotter

      Moderator
      September 14, 2022 at 7:43 pm

      Patrick. I wonder too if the aerodynamics may hurt here, with that flat area being a low pressure zone where dirty rain water will dry and crust. (like the back window of some vans or station wagons.)

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