GM EV NewsPosted by michael-kahlow on October 11, 2022 at 7:25 am
GM’s expanding their Ultium platform to include home and commercial energy management options, called Ultium Home, Ultium Commercial, and Ultium Charge 360. You can find the full article at https://www.engadget.com/general-motors-ultium-battery-more-than-ev-gm-energy-100022884.html.
The effort appears to have many facets, but the quote below caught my eye. An integrated home energy storage system that incorporates an electric vehicle with solar panels and battery banks…
Let’s hope it’s not going to be proprietary.
The new company will be partnering with a number of established firms and utilities in the energy industry. For example, GM will be working with SunPower to develop and market a integrated home energy storage system that incorporates an electric vehicle with solar panels and battery banks to enable easy Vehicle-to-Home (V2H) power transfers. GM plans to have that home energy system ready for sale alongside the release of the EV Silverado next fall, 2023.
MemberOctober 11, 2022 at 7:33 am
It is good to see this strategy! Rather than development proceeding in parallel, the two streams can be complimentary/integrated and help solve issues in both streams to include the fragility of the aging grid structure and EV vehicle charging availability and rising costs.
Now someone needs to address a solution for those of us who live in apartments and condos!
MemberOctober 11, 2022 at 9:08 am
Solar-to-grid would be an especially good thing for the Aptera in particular — after the battery reaches a full charge from the solar panels, you could have a switch in there that allows the solar panels themselves to switch from charging the battery to sending the solar power directly into the grid so it isn’t wasted.
MemberOctober 11, 2022 at 9:21 am
A good idea for home if you leave your Aptera parked out in the sum, but would not work if out and about or at work where you would not be able to connect to the grid.
MemberOctober 11, 2022 at 10:08 am
As someone who has a home in the mountains that will frequently lose power, I’m a big fan of V2H backup systems. For now, we have an auto-start generac whole home generator that keeps us going when we need it. Burns through a lot of propane though.
This concept, if I understand correctly, where you have a reasonable but smaller battery (15-20KW perhaps?) permanently in the home and then can plug your car in to supplement that, just makes a HUGE amount of sense to me. The Ford F150 system is similar, but you need to figure out the ‘what if my car isn’t plugged in right now’ piece for yourself. This seems to have that covered.
Not really clear on why power companies want you to sell your power to them, except I’m sure they will significantly underpay your costs of doing this. That said, if you have solar, then you can rate-shave the dickens out of it, sell when the price is high, charge back when its low, all thanks to net-metering. This only works to offset your own usage, but very doable if you have a wide price change between peak hours and off peak, like I do with PG&E.
MemberOctober 11, 2022 at 11:09 am
“There are more power failures in the US than any other country in the industrialized world,”
Why do people just accept this as normal. US power reliability is a joke. Does power need to be nationalized or more highly regulated to not suck.
MemberOctober 12, 2022 at 8:36 am
Here is a study on the topic. I would love to see more detail, up to date (its from 2010) or how California compares but this is what I found so far.
Update: Here is another study from 2019 which shows the west coast / midwest of the US (zones 5, 6 and 9) have far more outages and longer average outage per year. This shows CAIDI (same thing as SAIDI) at ~4x the national average) https://www.mcphersonpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2019-APPA-Annual-Benchmarking-Report-eReliability-Tracker-002.pdf
MemberOctober 12, 2022 at 12:24 pm
I live in he foothills southwest of Denver. Power outages here are so common that Xcel Energy occasionally owns up to it and issues me a rebate for lack of service. The possibility of using my Aptera as a power backup for my house would be a huge deal for me, I fervently hope that this is built into the design of the vehicle. Beyond that, using an Aptera or any other EV as a micro power source for the grid makes sense on so many levels that I think it would be hard to list all of them. It would, of course, require a good re-evaluation of the design of the national grid, but that is long past due.
MemberMarch 31, 2023 at 11:34 am
Nice to see a major car company following Aptera’s lead! GM will discontinue installing AppleCar Play and AndroidAuto in thier EVs starting with the Equinox going on sale this year. Big win for Google as GM will work with them for an integraed replacement.
MemberMarch 31, 2023 at 12:29 pm
The nuances of this is actually bad for smaller auto companies like Aptera and consumers. This kind of development partnership is very expensive and makes the infotainment of vendors unnecessarily unique and adds development effort overall. Standards and open source reduces costs. The end result is less software consistency, increased dev costs, less features and soft lockin. Basically the non-tech savy will choose the existing vendor because they want an experience they are used to that of their last vehicle (I still cant get my wife to give up on iPhone). We all know modern cars are basically rolling computers and UI consistency is a good thing especially with soo much handled on a touch screen; an argument can be made that software consistency improves safety.
MemberApril 1, 2023 at 7:26 am
They aren’t following Aptera’s lead, they are following Polestar’s. They are going to use Android Automotive, that will give them real Google Maps and a large eco systems of apps. I wish Aptera would do the same and use Android Automotive, that would give them a world class UI and a complete set of apps while also being integrated into the car. Aptera is rolling their own interface, they don’t have the software resource to do this and they won’t be able to get any thirty apps. Tesla has done the best job, by far, of doing an in house infotainment interface and it’s still deficient when compared to Android Auto. Tesla’s nav system lacks the options of real Google Maps and there is hardly any choice of streaming apps, Slacker is OK but I liked Pandora better which is what I used when I had a Volt. It’s not clear if Aptera will even have a nav system when they ship that’s a critical feature in a modern car, I for one don’t want to go back to sticking a phone on the dash or worse the windshield.
MemberApril 1, 2023 at 8:10 am
GM is not following the “Aptera lead” because Aptera doesn’t have anything right now.
GM is actually improving the user experience by using a built-in Android Automotive instead of having you to connect your Android Phone to your car via cable or wirelessly. And yes, they are completely ditching Apple CarPlay.
Aptera should follow GM, Volvo, Polestar, Honda, Renault, BMW, Rivian, Lucid etc. and implement the Android Automotive, which is an open source operating system. Google Automotive Services (GAS) which can be also integrated cost money to license them, so this might or might not be a good idea, depending on the cost.
You can see at the link below which manufacturers are using GAS and which not.
MemberApril 1, 2023 at 9:04 am
The post was made in jest. GM barely knows Aptera exists and would have no inclination to follow an Aptera lead. I am in favor of the approach that can provide the most dependable functionality with the least cost to the buyer. It is certainly true that Aptera does not have the software skill set or the number of resources to do a good job at a custom infotainment system out of the gate. I think the cost of licensing something that is developed and works may be cheaper than trying to develop inhouse. I trust Aptera to make that tradeoff. As stated, even the Tesla (Internally developed) system is not up to par.
Additional news. Ford has decided to not include AM radio except for trucks. I have learned my lesson and will not claim they are following the Aptera lead.😜
MemberApril 1, 2023 at 10:09 am
Nice, now you will have to have a separate subscription for your car. Just one more smart device on your account that you have to pay an additional monthly fee instead of using the service already provided with your phone.
I was looking at the nice Volvo electric and PHEV options but decided I was not going to buy a car that was going to require a subscription that mimics what I already have with my smartphone and likely won’t let me shop for 3rd party providers.
Not having Android Auto is probably my biggest complaint about the Aptera. I’ll probably still buy the car, but I’m getting close to moving on.
MemberApril 2, 2023 at 12:32 am
The GM integrated Android system is not a subscription from what i read here. GM is doing this as much to simplify the driving experience, as it wants your data to monitor your driving and how often you go to a level 3 rapid charge stations (more big brother watching you). Some good, some bad, but mostly good imo. Here’s the article…..https://9to5google.com/2023/03/31/gm-evs-android-auto/
MemberApril 2, 2023 at 4:07 am
That article says it includes 8 years free. It is definitely a subscription. It doesn’t say if the 8 years transfers if you sell the car, either.
MemberApril 2, 2023 at 6:05 am
The push toward a subscription model has already started in the automotive world. Remember that on some BMW models, the heated seat feature was present but required activation after buying/subscribing to the feature.
Using Android Automotive isn’t the important aspect. If GM continued to go its own path with a proprietary system it still can add a subscription model for adding features. We are driving rolling computers. Think how much money Google and Apple hall in through their App or Play stores. I see a GM app store equivalent in the future. Other vehicle makers will follow suit.
Right now, Aptera has focused on the right-to-repair philosophy. I don’t see an Aptera App store on the main screen in the near term. But, they could end up doing this too in the future. Especially if it becomes a big money maker for other manufacturers.
MemberApril 2, 2023 at 6:15 am
And people are pushing back. BMW tried charging a subscription for apple car play and that didn’t last long.
I decided I wouldn’t buy a new Volvo because of the Google integration that will require a subscription.
If the consumer pushes back enough and lets manufacturers know why they aren’t going to buy certain vehicles, we don’t have to be forced into this.
Forced subscriptions are part of a culture of debt.
MemberApril 2, 2023 at 9:24 am
There is nothing wrong with a subscription for something that’s continually evolving, as long as you get updates then a subscription is worth it. Most software uses a subscription model these days. Connectivity has an ongoing cost also, premium connectivity on a Tesla cost $10/, when I had a Volt I paid OnStar $20 a month (that include an unlimited hotspot).
Heated seats are different, a one time payment for a feature is fine but a subscription isn’t. Heated seats won’t get any better, there was a cost to put them in so there should be a price to use them, if you live in Florida you can live without them but if you live in the North it’s worth paying for. Tesla has a power boost option for $2000, it’s a one time expense. I’m perfectly happy with a lackadaisical 0-60 in 4.4 seconds so I’m not going to buy that option but if someone else feels the need for an extra 1/2 second that’s their business. If they purchase it the option will stay with the car when they sell it (to anybody but Tesla) so it’s the same as a factory installed option.
MemberAugust 8, 2023 at 10:23 am
Not surprising that EV manufacturer are developing this capability. The for 150 Lightning has it now and it is a logical migration for EVs with battery capacity much greater than Tesla Power Walls or Enphase home batteries. Still, for GM, a long way away for all of their vehicles.
I have Enphase batteries for my home solar. Enphase will have a two way charger that will work with the grid, home, and vehicle in 2024. I will get one to work with our Tesla and Bolt. Will make our home batteries obsolete and their expense a loss.
A note to those that are thinking to install home solar, it may be wise to wait and not get home battery packs with are very expensive.