Hope against climate change and evolving trends

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News Hope against climate change and evolving trends

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News Hope against climate change and evolving trends

  • Hope against climate change and evolving trends

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    April 5, 2022 at 2:48 pm

    The following is a very well made video analyzing the climate change situation, phycology and looking at the wider problems and trends.

  • Jon_J

    Member
    April 5, 2022 at 7:08 pm

    Kurzgesagt is a good YT channel. Well researched content. Nicely presented. We have a number of their purchasable items around the house. Of course, we have Aptera merch too!

  • David Marlow

    Member
    April 5, 2022 at 9:47 pm

    Great video, there is hope if we don’t give up!

    Go Aptera!

  • Llewellyn Evans Evans

    Member
    April 6, 2022 at 4:35 pm

    Hmmm, Optimism is great.

    I think I am still in the “we are doomed” phase …. I will catch up later.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZgoFyuHC8

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 12:29 am

      Also good and funny as $#@&. I binged dozens of them a few days ago. Given all the things going on in the world a positive outlook is a breath of fresh air which is why I skated the original.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 7, 2022 at 9:18 pm

    It could take as long as 1,000 years after a complete halt of greenhouse gas emissions for environmental measures like sea level and ocean surface temperature to return to pre-industrial levels [source: NOAA]. In addition, other factors besides greenhouse gas emissions can contribute to global warming.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 4:17 am

    Although I feel for those who want to Save The World, please keep in mind that this has been thrown at us for the last 50 years. The earth goes through cycles. Ice cores prove this. I’m 62 and have heard the doom and gloom story forever. I’m not buying it. Sure we got rid of ozone killing refrigerant and the ozone hole closed back up. But they don’t tell you how the new stuff is worse for increasing the heat of the planet. Yet, everyone feels good about themselves for using it.

    Solar is a convenience nothing more. It still takes carbon footprints to produce and is not something (currently) that can be recycled. If you charge from the house it still takes a coal fired plant to produce that electricity. Any savings in green house gasses is lost as soon as any volcano goes off and ruins all your efforts for the next 100 years.

    I’m not a fan of California speak about flowers, my kids or sitting around a camp fire throwing positive feels at the world so this Get Well Mother Earth pitch falls on deaf ears.

    Carbon emissions will always be here. The earth produces carbon emissions naturally. Sure we can have cleaner factories and more efficient cars but to think we can eliminate carbon is a falsehood and fear controlling element from the government in order for them to have carbon taxes and push more money spending agendas.

    Appreciate the Aptera for what it is, a partially solar powered car that stops you from spending money on gas and breaking away from the game of driving box cars of the past.

    Now break out your Neal Young albums, sit in your wicker chairs, smoke your natural herbs and feel good about yourself.

    I’m a realist, reservationist and an investor. But I don’t think I’m part of the Save The World crowd.

    To hear more and more California speak from some of Apteras marketing hurts more than it helps. California doesn’t have the best reputation so stand clear from it in your speeches and you’ll sell more cars. We’re talking sales here. Stick to the facts, listen to what the customer wants and sign the paperwork.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 9:54 am

      Thanks for this post. Courageous to think/say these things on the forum. I suspect many on the forum have the same thoughts but are reluctant to voice them.

      When I am in my academic environment I am among mostly young idealistic people who are motivated by environmental issues and can be moved to action, although ineffectively, by environmental appeals. In my work environment I am among STEM professionals that see the environmental appeals as chiefly propaganda to sell a different set of products which, on the whole, would be mostly ineffective at having any real impact on solving environmental issues.

      In the case of Aptera, my professional colleagues do/would applaud the efficiency of the Aptera and its engineering achievements as they relate to improving the lives of customers. These colleagues would raise an eyebrow at the marketing pitch in the recent investors video and judge it as “Snake oil salesmanship” When I viewed the video, I was disappointed that first, it addressed the topic of the video only superficially and briefly, while spending most of the time on what was clearly a marketing pitch on potential positive environmental impact.

      From my experience in both environments, the marketing direction in the video may appeal to the young academic crowd that will not have money to buy these vehicles for a long time and will put off the technically savvy market with the income to buy Apterae especially at first, because of the engineering accomplishments.

      The posted video is great. Identifies an area which needs attention and focus but maybe too much sustained effort needed to make a meaningful change. Easier to buy an EV and say we have done our part to save the environment.

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 8:00 am

      Just a note, the hole in the ozone layer is still around. Full recovery is not expected until 2040-2070.

      Interesting links have been found between recent lower solar activity, cooler upper atmospheric temperatures and ozone hole size.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 7:45 pm

      Hmmm…..

      I’ll start with an easy one and gauge your receptiveness to being “fact checked”.

      You claimed: “Sure we got rid of ozone killing refrigerant and the ozone hole closed back up. But they don’t tell you how the new stuff is worse for increasing the heat of the planet.”

      “Old stuff” global warming potential: 10,200 to 10,800

      Most widely used “New stuff” global warming potential”: 677 to 6380

      By the way, why is any of this important if “you don’t buy it” (it being AGW)?

    • Llewellyn Evans Evans

      Member
      April 10, 2022 at 1:54 am

      Hi Steven,

      The facts don’t support your comments. Global warming is here now. It is impacting local weather events now.

      https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

      https://climate.nasa.gov

      Seriously, what does it take to get it into people’s heads that this is real, serious and requires urgent action.

      • Alain Chuzel

        Member
        April 11, 2022 at 6:38 am

        Your question “what does it take to get it into people’s heads that this is real….?”

        Human Psychology may be, at least partly, to blame. There’s quite a bit of research on the question of why it can be difficult for people to change their minds.

        Here’s at least some consolation for you:

        “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.”
        ― Max Planck, Scientific Autobiography and Other Papers

        and

        “Science advances one funeral at a time.”
        ― Max Planck

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by  Alain Chuzel.
    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      April 12, 2022 at 6:58 am

      “Any savings in green house gasses is lost as soon as any volcano goes off and ruins all your efforts for the next 100 years.” (Steven G. Bueche – April 8, 2022 at 4:15 AM)

      or:

      Both can’t be true.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 9:10 am

    Thank you Steve

    I want to touch on the R12 issue ( ozone killing refrigerant )

    What was the real reason for banning R12 ?

    Well a little digging back when it happened , and knowing many people shop owners who used R12 in cars and trucks hi etc.

    It turned out that , the patent that DuPont held on R12 Freon was set to expire and open it up to foreign competition , so DuPont led the testing and investigation on the harm that R12 Freon was doing and painted it as. “ Look what we are doing to save the planet “. Not the real issue. “We knew this and we made billions and now that we are going to lose out , we have decided it’s bad and you need to ban it “

    😬.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 7:19 pm

      Apparently the urban legend you fell victim to has been making the rounds for over 20 years.

      http://www.imcool.com/articles/aircondition/refrigerant_history.htm

      In short, the patents for all ozone destroying refrigerants, including DuPont’s, “ran out” in the 1950s which is way before Scientists discovered, in the early 80’s, that the ozone layer was being damaged.

  • George Hughes

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 9:58 pm

    I like both videos you posted here; the first is a pretty good encapsulation and the second is a hilariously cynical demonstration on how we let government work. It really doesn’t need to be that way.

    And, to their credit, both videos appear generally factual, although both also have ‘an attitude’ … which is both expected and exploited. We’ve all been dealing with fungible truths spun for the value of spinning by those who fund effective communications in support of their agendas.

    Economics and economists make the mistake of assuming people are motivated almost exclusively by money and improving their personal access to more money. It would be foolish to ignore the role that acquiring money in this society is able to incentivize. But it is equally, if not more foolish to ignore other aspects including loyalty, honor, duty or my favorite, just doing what I want to do.

    We all actually have a choice on what media we consume and I’m afraid, on a broad scale, we’re eating raw, half-pound media burger patty on a massive sour-dough bun with five slabs of different cheeses piled on top with a mixture of mayo, ketchup and a single leaf of lettuce … the first day home after a heart attack.

    That red meat banquet is quite effective in filling tons of tummies and putting people to sleep, and one way to do that is by highlighting stories of stupidity and corruption by authorities anywhere everywhere. A well documented example of this effect is the understanding that the general public thinks there is more murder and mayhem than there is. Why? Because if it bleeds, it leads gets its name in local TV news from the practice of importing really not very sensational murder stories from distant locales damn near every night for about the last 60 years.

    Here’s another thing folks forget … and that is the value of progress for the better of mankind.

    Just like the first video that acknowledged significant progress due in large part by the mental attitude, not of the ‘general public’ but of the class that is motivated to solve the issues. They are working to change things in basic structural ways and it is working despite the corrupt shenanigans like that depicted in the second video.

    The plain fact is there will always be corruption but the trick is to have the 80-20 rule working in favor of doing the right thing. That feat requires strict accountability which is far beyond the scope of this forum.

    The lesson here is to not disrespect those whose fervor for the environment leads them to work in any number of ways to solve the problems posed by climate. If they raise fears about climate challenges they’re just trying to communicate using the tools they’ve learned through imitation of advocates of other points of view.

    Our biggest problem is only the self-assured are tolerant enough to avoid the pitfalls and hot buttons others use in their trite efforts to employ fear. With half a century in community journalism and media, I’ve covered good news and bad news and I remain optimistic in a trust but verify kind of way.

    • Steven G. Bueche

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 6:49 am

      Well said George.

      My concern is that if Aptera continues more environmental concerns over the efficiency comments we will lose customers. People are more practical outside the west coast. They have real budgets and real concerns. They’d rather buy a car that gets them from point A to point B for as little as possible for the best price. Some of this generation is mind controlled by the media and its agenda and some are easily educated to the Spin placed upon them. My 15 year old Grandson can tell the difference and doesn’t fall for it. He also spends his time educating those friends around him. Kids these days are quick to filter the chaff from the grain with their computer skills.

      Yes it’s nice to get your power from the sun. Yes it’s good to travel farther on these batteries due to aerodynamic styling. But let’s not kid ourselves. The batteries are costing us the mining issues in other countries, everything has a carbon footprint, the body can’t be recycled and it’s not gonna save baby rabbits from their habitat.

      It’ a uniquely styled car that gets some charge from the sun and is (claims) efficient and a reasonable price. You either love it or hate it.

      Like I’ve stated before; I’d buy it for the sake of leaving the box shapes even if it was a gas powered car.

      Steve and Chris have some special with the Aptera and I want it to succeed. I just don’t want the Kum ba yah crowd to ruin it’s chances.

      • George Hughes

        Member
        April 9, 2022 at 9:27 am

        We all know this: Perfection eludes us all

        One can think of Aptera as a triple-crown winning horse, retired, going where it wants to go, stopping on the side of the road to bask in the sun, graze on that delicious blue grass, while preparing to gallop off at a moments notice at breakneck speed at its owner’s call.

        Others can cuss it as a mechanical contraption that insults the earth like every other physical manifestation of mankind, the sinner, who has no right on the earth and for whom all things are representative of damnable sins. These are the people who don’t mind loose springs poking them in the back as they drive their 1948 rust bucket of a Dodge truck onto a highway from the farm road without looking whether there’s traffic and eliciting from the driver who nearly crashed into their unlighted rear-end the comment, “there is no defense against absolute stupidity”: True story.

        People bring what they bring to the party. Some bring great ideas, others, wacky ones and still others worse but know that like that misguided yokel farmer driving the ’48 Dodge pickup (or you and me driving our 2023 Aptera) perfection eludes us all.

        And the grim truth remains, this planet is on a journey that ends with its annihilation so it means none of it really makes a damn … at least until it does or doesn’t. … so, what ‘s left?

        FUN

        I wouldn’t worry about the climate zealots and I don’t think the climate zealots are worried about you – Vlad Putin maybe – but not you. Indeed, I tend to let them slide in zealotry a bit because I know their screeching really does irritate folks like Vlad, his seven sisters and about half of all Texans. Comforting thoughts that let me sleep at night.

        But you know what is fun?

        Watching a video like this and then seeing the stats for my Aptera:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxNUsq5BZyU

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  George Hughes.

  • Joel Smith

    Member
    April 9, 2022 at 10:57 am

    I still think that there is a whole lot of missing the real problem in the vast majority of the rhetoric on either side of this subject. All the feel-good tree hugging in the world isn’t going to save our civilization (though a fair bit of it can help) and all the most advanced technological innovation in the world isn’t going to save our civilization either (though again a fair bit of it can help). As long as the commercial capitalism driven rampant and ever increasing conspicuous consumption of our society makes us a cancer on our environment, we are all in the same hell bound hand basket.

    Rather I think that Gandhi was spot on when he said that there is enough in the world for everyone’s need but not for everyone’s greed. If the vast majority of folks could embrace something more like the notion of just having and using what you need (and a realistic notion of what that really is), then the burden we collectively impose on our environment would be vastly easier to manage.

    I see Aptera as an opportunity (yet another) to do what I need using a lot less; both material resources and energy. Because it is so distinct looking, there will be a good deal of showing my community what that looks like (and at least to my mind, how good it can look!).

    My choices alone aren’t going to charge the world but I can add my bit of push in the right direction. I reckon that setting a good example is never wasted.

  • Elzo Stubbe

    Member
    April 10, 2022 at 2:35 am

    Maybe we all should plant a tree. That would be something positive.

    • Llewellyn Evans Evans

      Member
      April 10, 2022 at 2:46 am

      Maybe when we get our Aptera and have to settle the bill, we could get the option to spend a couple of bucks and plant a tree.

      That would be 40,000 trees per year and it could offset some of the green house gasses emitted during making the car.

      • Elzo Stubbe

        Member
        April 10, 2022 at 2:59 am

        👊👍

      • Llewellyn Evans Evans

        Member
        April 10, 2022 at 3:37 pm

        They could just forward any donation to an organisation that plants trees …. They could be planted anywhere in the world by an organisation like that. Plant where they can make the biggest difference by creating positive feedback loops. More trees in some dry locations that have been deforested means more rain …. and more trees.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 11, 2022 at 5:56 pm

    I tried to post this before. It either failed or was removed. Either way. It’s an unfortunate truth about wind power as a “green” future

    https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/07/wind-energy-company-guilty-killing-eagles

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 12, 2022 at 12:39 pm

    I don’t think they are actually “scare tactics” or “scare quotes” . You don’t fine a company $8 million dollars if it isn’t true or there isn’t factual evidence behind it.

    It also states they are expected to pay the fines … you don’t pay the fine if you didn’t do it , you fight it in court

    How much money does ESI have to pay? ESI will likely have to pay more than $30 million in total for these incidents, according to the Department of Justice.

    The company owes $6,210,991 in restitution over a five-year probation period. During the probation, ESI will also have to dedicate $27 million to bald eagle preservation efforts. They will also be required $29,623 per bald or golden eagle death in the future

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      April 12, 2022 at 1:11 pm

      Again, perspective.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 12, 2022 at 12:40 pm

    Also. Cats aren’t killing protected bald eagles

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      April 12, 2022 at 1:12 pm

      Perspective.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      April 12, 2022 at 1:56 pm

      Hate to say it but all things have side effects; nothing is perfect. A few eagles vs hundreds of premature deaths (including animals) from side effects of fossil fuels isn’t a hard choice if looking at the bigger picture. Solar isnt a great option in many climates and large enough scale storage is a problem. Offshore essentially solves the bird issues but has its own unique challenges and chemical leaks kill fish.

      An interesting evolving wind power technology is kites. This solution keeps the heavy parts on the ground and is easier to transport / deploy with far less materials.

      Product

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airborne_wind_energy_organizations

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