Hope against climate change

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News Hope against climate change

Aptera Community Solar EV Industry News Hope against climate change

  • Hope against climate change

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    April 5, 2022 at 2:48 pm

    The following is a very well made video analyzing the climate change situation, phycology and looking at the wider problems and trends.

    • This discussion was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by  bbelcamino.
  • Jonathan Jansson

    Member
    April 5, 2022 at 7:08 pm

    Kurzgesagt is a good YT channel. Well researched content. Nicely presented. We have a number of their purchasable items around the house. Of course, we have Aptera merch too!

  • Llewellyn Evans

    Member
    April 6, 2022 at 4:35 pm

    Hmmm, Optimism is great.

    I think I am still in the “we are doomed” phase …. I will catch up later.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZgoFyuHC8

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 12:29 am

      Also good and funny as $#@&. I binged dozens of them a few days ago. Given all the things going on in the world a positive outlook is a breath of fresh air which is why I skated the original.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    April 7, 2022 at 9:18 pm

    It could take as long as 1,000 years after a complete halt of greenhouse gas emissions for environmental measures like sea level and ocean surface temperature to return to pre-industrial levels [source: NOAA]. In addition, other factors besides greenhouse gas emissions can contribute to global warming.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 4:17 am

    Although I feel for those who want to Save The World, please keep in mind that this has been thrown at us for the last 50 years. The earth goes through cycles. Ice cores prove this. I’m 62 and have heard the doom and gloom story forever. I’m not buying it. Sure we got rid of ozone killing refrigerant and the ozone hole closed back up. But they don’t tell you how the new stuff is worse for increasing the heat of the planet. Yet, everyone feels good about themselves for using it.

    Solar is a convenience nothing more. It still takes carbon footprints to produce and is not something (currently) that can be recycled. If you charge from the house it still takes a coal fired plant to produce that electricity. Any savings in green house gasses is lost as soon as any volcano goes off and ruins all your efforts for the next 100 years.

    I’m not a fan of California speak about flowers, my kids or sitting around a camp fire throwing positive feels at the world so this Get Well Mother Earth pitch falls on deaf ears.

    Carbon emissions will always be here. The earth produces carbon emissions naturally. Sure we can have cleaner factories and more efficient cars but to think we can eliminate carbon is a falsehood and fear controlling element from the government in order for them to have carbon taxes and push more money spending agendas.

    Appreciate the Aptera for what it is, a partially solar powered car that stops you from spending money on gas and breaking away from the game of driving box cars of the past.

    Now break out your Neal Young albums, sit in your wicker chairs, smoke your natural herbs and feel good about yourself.

    I’m a realist, reservationist and an investor. But I don’t think I’m part of the Save The World crowd.

    To hear more and more California speak from some of Apteras marketing hurts more than it helps. California doesn’t have the best reputation so stand clear from it in your speeches and you’ll sell more cars. We’re talking sales here. Stick to the facts, listen to what the customer wants and sign the paperwork.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      April 8, 2022 at 9:54 am

      Thanks for this post. Courageous to think/say these things on the forum. I suspect many on the forum have the same thoughts but are reluctant to voice them.

      When I am in my academic environment I am among mostly young idealistic people who are motivated by environmental issues and can be moved to action, although ineffectively, by environmental appeals. In my work environment I am among STEM professionals that see the environmental appeals as chiefly propaganda to sell a different set of products which, on the whole, would be mostly ineffective at having any real impact on solving environmental issues.

      In the case of Aptera, my professional colleagues do/would applaud the efficiency of the Aptera and its engineering achievements as they relate to improving the lives of customers. These colleagues would raise an eyebrow at the marketing pitch in the recent investors video and judge it as “Snake oil salesmanship” When I viewed the video, I was disappointed that first, it addressed the topic of the video only superficially and briefly, while spending most of the time on what was clearly a marketing pitch on potential positive environmental impact.

      From my experience in both environments, the marketing direction in the video may appeal to the young academic crowd that will not have money to buy these vehicles for a long time and will put off the technically savvy market with the income to buy Apterae especially at first, because of the engineering accomplishments.

      The posted video is great. Identifies an area which needs attention and focus but maybe too much sustained effort needed to make a meaningful change. Easier to buy an EV and say we have done our part to save the environment.

      • James Wolf

        Member
        October 26, 2022 at 11:45 am

        You nailed it!

        I hope Aptera steers clear of pushing the climate change agenda.

  • George Hughes

    Member
    April 8, 2022 at 9:58 pm

    I like both videos you posted here; the first is a pretty good encapsulation and the second is a hilariously cynical demonstration on how we let government work. It really doesn’t need to be that way.

    And, to their credit, both videos appear generally factual, although both also have ‘an attitude’ … which is both expected and exploited. We’ve all been dealing with fungible truths spun for the value of spinning by those who fund effective communications in support of their agendas.

    Economics and economists make the mistake of assuming people are motivated almost exclusively by money and improving their personal access to more money. It would be foolish to ignore the role that acquiring money in this society is able to incentivize. But it is equally, if not more foolish to ignore other aspects including loyalty, honor, duty or my favorite, just doing what I want to do.

    We all actually have a choice on what media we consume and I’m afraid, on a broad scale, we’re eating raw, half-pound media burger patty on a massive sour-dough bun with five slabs of different cheeses piled on top with a mixture of mayo, ketchup and a single leaf of lettuce … the first day home after a heart attack.

    That red meat banquet is quite effective in filling tons of tummies and putting people to sleep, and one way to do that is by highlighting stories of stupidity and corruption by authorities anywhere everywhere. A well documented example of this effect is the understanding that the general public thinks there is more murder and mayhem than there is. Why? Because if it bleeds, it leads gets its name in local TV news from the practice of importing really not very sensational murder stories from distant locales damn near every night for about the last 60 years.

    Here’s another thing folks forget … and that is the value of progress for the better of mankind.

    Just like the first video that acknowledged significant progress due in large part by the mental attitude, not of the ‘general public’ but of the class that is motivated to solve the issues. They are working to change things in basic structural ways and it is working despite the corrupt shenanigans like that depicted in the second video.

    The plain fact is there will always be corruption but the trick is to have the 80-20 rule working in favor of doing the right thing. That feat requires strict accountability which is far beyond the scope of this forum.

    The lesson here is to not disrespect those whose fervor for the environment leads them to work in any number of ways to solve the problems posed by climate. If they raise fears about climate challenges they’re just trying to communicate using the tools they’ve learned through imitation of advocates of other points of view.

    Our biggest problem is only the self-assured are tolerant enough to avoid the pitfalls and hot buttons others use in their trite efforts to employ fear. With half a century in community journalism and media, I’ve covered good news and bad news and I remain optimistic in a trust but verify kind of way.

    • Steven G. Bueche

      Member
      April 9, 2022 at 6:49 am

      Well said George.

      My concern is that if Aptera continues more environmental concerns over the efficiency comments we will lose customers. People are more practical outside the west coast. They have real budgets and real concerns. They’d rather buy a car that gets them from point A to point B for as little as possible for the best price. Some of this generation is mind controlled by the media and its agenda and some are easily educated to the Spin placed upon them. My 15 year old Grandson can tell the difference and doesn’t fall for it. He also spends his time educating those friends around him. Kids these days are quick to filter the chaff from the grain with their computer skills.

      Yes it’s nice to get your power from the sun. Yes it’s good to travel farther on these batteries due to aerodynamic styling. But let’s not kid ourselves. The batteries are costing us the mining issues in other countries, everything has a carbon footprint, the body can’t be recycled and it’s not gonna save baby rabbits from their habitat.

      It’ a uniquely styled car that gets some charge from the sun and is (claims) efficient and a reasonable price. You either love it or hate it.

      Like I’ve stated before; I’d buy it for the sake of leaving the box shapes even if it was a gas powered car.

      Steve and Chris have some special with the Aptera and I want it to succeed. I just don’t want the Kum ba yah crowd to ruin it’s chances.

      • George Hughes

        Member
        April 9, 2022 at 9:27 am

        We all know this: Perfection eludes us all

        One can think of Aptera as a triple-crown winning horse, retired, going where it wants to go, stopping on the side of the road to bask in the sun, graze on that delicious blue grass, while preparing to gallop off at a moments notice at breakneck speed at its owner’s call.

        Others can cuss it as a mechanical contraption that insults the earth like every other physical manifestation of mankind, the sinner, who has no right on the earth and for whom all things are representative of damnable sins. These are the people who don’t mind loose springs poking them in the back as they drive their 1948 rust bucket of a Dodge truck onto a highway from the farm road without looking whether there’s traffic and eliciting from the driver who nearly crashed into their unlighted rear-end the comment, “there is no defense against absolute stupidity”: True story.

        People bring what they bring to the party. Some bring great ideas, others, wacky ones and still others worse but know that like that misguided yokel farmer driving the ’48 Dodge pickup (or you and me driving our 2023 Aptera) perfection eludes us all.

        And the grim truth remains, this planet is on a journey that ends with its annihilation so it means none of it really makes a damn … at least until it does or doesn’t. … so, what ‘s left?

        FUN

        I wouldn’t worry about the climate zealots and I don’t think the climate zealots are worried about you – Vlad Putin maybe – but not you. Indeed, I tend to let them slide in zealotry a bit because I know their screeching really does irritate folks like Vlad, his seven sisters and about half of all Texans. Comforting thoughts that let me sleep at night.

        But you know what is fun?

        Watching a video like this and then seeing the stats for my Aptera:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxNUsq5BZyU

        • This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  George Hughes.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        October 27, 2022 at 6:58 am

        Correct Steven. The environmental argument will grow weaker as inflation deteriorates disposable income and people/families need to allocate their transportation expenses with greater discrimination which means price grows as a more significant criteria. It does not matter how good a vehicle is for the environment if you can’t afford to purchase it.

        GM appears to have that insight as they have priced their 2023 Bolts within reach of most middle class buyers resulting in a massive demand for the vehicle and increasing production at lest 40% to meet the 2023 demand. This followed by the 2023 release of a 30K Equinox SUV.

        2023 will be a water shed year for EVs with rising inflation and the possibility of a recession.

  • Joel Smith

    Member
    April 9, 2022 at 10:57 am

    I still think that there is a whole lot of missing the real problem in the vast majority of the rhetoric on either side of this subject. All the feel-good tree hugging in the world isn’t going to save our civilization (though a fair bit of it can help) and all the most advanced technological innovation in the world isn’t going to save our civilization either (though again a fair bit of it can help). As long as the commercial capitalism driven rampant and ever increasing conspicuous consumption of our society makes us a cancer on our environment, we are all in the same hell bound hand basket.

    Rather I think that Gandhi was spot on when he said that there is enough in the world for everyone’s need but not for everyone’s greed. If the vast majority of folks could embrace something more like the notion of just having and using what you need (and a realistic notion of what that really is), then the burden we collectively impose on our environment would be vastly easier to manage.

    I see Aptera as an opportunity (yet another) to do what I need using a lot less; both material resources and energy. Because it is so distinct looking, there will be a good deal of showing my community what that looks like (and at least to my mind, how good it can look!).

    My choices alone aren’t going to charge the world but I can add my bit of push in the right direction. I reckon that setting a good example is never wasted.

  • Elzo Stubbe

    Member
    April 10, 2022 at 2:35 am

    Maybe we all should plant a tree. That would be something positive.

    • Llewellyn Evans

      Member
      April 10, 2022 at 2:46 am

      Maybe when we get our Aptera and have to settle the bill, we could get the option to spend a couple of bucks and plant a tree.

      That would be 40,000 trees per year and it could offset some of the green house gasses emitted during making the car.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    October 26, 2022 at 12:42 am

    On a bang for the buck government investment, a 100 million grant to Aptera to open a second factory would cut the time in half for Aptera production to actually have a significant effect on climate change. However to convince any government to make this investment they will have to see actual production vehicles.

  • seth feldman

    Member
    October 26, 2022 at 3:30 am

    <div>It would be interesting to see what the green house emissions of building an aptera vs standard steel bodied vehicle would be. Fossil fuels are probably used to refine most if not all of the chemicals that go into the resins/foam/battery and almost everything else in the aptera.
    </div><div>

    Solar panels take 5-7 years to offset the fossil fuels used to create them. I think that’s assuming they’re putting the power to use, and not sitting on a fully charged battery. A nice reduction, and less reliance on a “grid” but probably not near as green as most greenies seem to claim. Besides we don’t have recycling, because it isn’t cost effective. Should new solar panels get a recycling tax to fund recycling plants?

    Most people I know who’ve bought efficient cars didn’t buy them for the green factor. They bought them for the cheap running cost which will likely be my biggest reason to purchase an aptera. Even if the average solar output will likely be significantly less than the up to/max claimed 40 miles per day.

    </div>

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    October 27, 2022 at 1:38 pm

    I believe we need to be good stewards of our planet. We should use its resources wisely. And we should do what we can to not mess up our atmosphere. I mean we all have to live and breathe this air around us, so…

    But sometimes I think there are greater things going on that are outside of out control. Like our planet’s magnetic field is weakening, its poles are shifting, and its rotation speed is increasing. These things cause me concern and I don’t think there’s much we can do about it.

    Strange things are happening on other planets in our solar system too. Like the solar wind has been found to be heating up Jupiter’s atmosphere and the wind speeds of its great red spot are increasing. Even as far away as Pluto. What little bit of atmosphere Pluto has is being blasted off into space! (I hope that one doesn’t happen here)

    So yeah, we need to fix what we can on our home planet and I guess we’ll have ride out the rest of the changes.

    https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/899/jupiters-atmosphere-heats-up-under-solar-wind/

    https://www.space.com/jupiter-great-red-spot-wind-speeds-increase

    https://astronomy.com/news/2020/05/plutos-strange-atmosphere-just-collapsed

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      October 27, 2022 at 4:20 pm

      I quickly read the links you provided. Between those and what I’ve read about “Mother Earth’s” weakening magnetic field and pole shifting as well as her increasing/decreasing rotational speed, while scientifically interesting, leave me with 0 concern. I’m more than 100% with you, however, on the issue of Mother Earth’s climate change problem and our collective unwillingness to confront it. Not to ruin your day/evening but, have you read this recent climate change news?

      https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-63407459

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    November 28, 2022 at 9:09 am

    The volcano in Hawaii that is erupting today, will spew more carbon into the atmosphere than 1000 years of driving ice vehicles,

    Maybe if we had some kind of tax and threw billions of dollars of money into the volcano, it would stop the disruption of the worlds global warming ?

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      November 28, 2022 at 10:27 am

      Do you have a source for those numbers?

      • Alain Chuzel

        Member
        November 29, 2022 at 7:16 am

        The source for THOSE numbers is someone’s imagination.

        Here’s a 2017 article from Forbes that I found.

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/06/06/how-much-co2-does-a-single-volcano-emit/?sh=612d2c195cbf

        (Below is just one stunning sentence from the article)

        “It would take three Mount St. Helens and one Mount Pinatubo eruption every day to equal the amount that humanity is presently (2017) emitting.”

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          November 29, 2022 at 9:08 am

          Thanks. I was aware of that but couldn’t find any specific estimates from the Hawaii eruption. Since I can currently breath Patrick’s statements seemed highly questionable.

  • Alain Chuzel

    Member
    November 28, 2022 at 9:54 am

    From USGS.
    “There is no question that very large volcanic eruptions can inject significant amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. The 1980 eruption of Mount St. Helens vented approximately 10 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere in only 9 hours. However, it currently takes humanity only 2.5 hours to put out the same amount. While large explosive eruptions like this are rare and only occur globally every 10 years or so, humanity’s emissions are ceaseless and increasing every year.”

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