MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 5:56 am
Looking at the initial cost of my Aptera plus financing versus gas savings and routine maintenance savings, I estimate it will take roughly ten years for the Aptera to pay for itself. I wish I could add in insurance savings but I think that’s going to be a wash (or higher on the Aptera) since I only have collision on my current car. Any other possible savings I’m overlooking? BTW, I decided not to include any EV tax incentives since I don’t know if they’ll be available by the time I get the Aptera.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 6:33 am
Cars can never ‘pay for themselves’.
As a capital investment where you use the vehicle as part of your business ‘maybe’. For example when will your earnings being an Uber driver pay off for the vehicle? Most businesses must have the vehicle ‘pay for themselves’ after 5 years, or 3 years as a tax writeoff or they are not worth the investment. Intangibles like advertising can be factors, an Aptera will get you noticed more readily than a boxy people mover.
As a personal transport, nope. To be absolutely clear, you have many choices for transportation. The most price, fuel and energy efficient option with today’s crop of vehicles has always been a full Diesel Bus at rush hour. Such a vehicle beats a bicycle, or an Aptera, hands down. By that measure, Aptera can never ‘pay for itself’.
If you have to purchase a vehicle, let’s say you have to commute to work, the choice of vehicle becomes a personal fiscal comparison. It is clouded by your requirements and needs overlapping with the options. You can attempt to do an apples to apples comparison to another car option that you would have purchased instead, and make a value choice proposition. You can also do so for each option on that vehicle. Once you have done so, your final choice must have ‘paid for itself’ unless you chose one over the other for emotional reasons. If you were being emotional, then you better arm yourself, for a vehicle like Aptera, for the long term costs of maintenance, insurance, registration and ‘fuel’ if you hope to rationalize the purchase. I can not help you with that.
I am buying an Aptera purely for emotional reasons; The first _real_(sic) production solar car, the efficiency prospects, the fulfillment of a dream I had when I was 6 years old, the symbolic point and date where americans can alter their perspective towards a sustainable future, saving the power pool from imminent collapse resulting from the growing electrical vehicle load, 3.5.s 0-60mph woooeeeeee, a neato camping option and finally replacing the combination of a Goldwing, S2000 and an RV all in one (the only fiscal statement). And to a lesser extent a (clown?) mobile to get me noticed, look at me, look at me, mwahahahahahaa. This makes the car ‘pay for itself’ for me.
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 10:17 am
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 7:58 am
I’m figuring about ten minutes after the IPO hits the market.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 7:59 am
With the savings from dumping the ice, probably about a decade.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 8:26 am
I don’t care.
I’ll be part of the new experiment and loving every minute.
As long as it’s not all fiberglass and we can get a break down of what composite is where.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 10:10 am
In order to save 36000.- driving the Aptera compared to what my Ford Focus has cost per year over the last 20+ years, assuming I would only drive 12000 km / 7500 miles per year this would be the case in 18 years, assumimng I would drive twice as much it would be the case in 12 years (assuming gas and electricity prices would both stay the same as now, and considering differences in taxes, insurance and half the maintenance costs I had with my old car which hasen’t been too bad so far).
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 10:26 am
If you own a business that requires transportation one or two people (examples: real Estate appraisor, inspector, insurance adjusted, Uber driver, pizza delivery) your travel expenses can be deducted at the rate of $.55 per mile or more. If your yearly business driving exceeds 100,000 miles (2000 work hours per year times 50 mph) your travel expenses per year could be $55,000. For most drivers that doesn’t even cover the real expenses of that travel.
If your only costs were $.15 per kwh electricity, plus a couple sets of tires, 10,000 kwh x $.15 = $1500, $1000 for tires, plus insurance $500, total $3000. Your net travel expenses totals negative $52,000 per year, or about $1000 per week. How long did it take the Aptera to pay for itself? About six months for the base model. Of course this is a best case scenario.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Francis Giroux.
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 10:21 am
I live in New York. Electricity costs me $0.27 kwh. Still a bargain compared to the cost of gasoline.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 10:59 am
It pays for it self the Time you bought it if it‘s true what is promised.
Because you save Lifetime!
Time spending in the Shop because of Trouble in one of the 1000 Car System‘s in your Ford Focus.
Or Rust (Also known to every Car Owner, especially Ford Owners in colder Regions)
Or at the Gas station to fill up your Dodge
Or at Service every other Time
Or at The Car Wash ( You need it because otherwise your Car rust away faster than you payed it off)
Or at the Bar – Because you bought an „good american“ Car that burns holes in your Pockets!
If you do not need to do this kind of Stuff anymore you should Pay Aptera more than estimated😃😃
I do work as an Automotive mechatronic technican and let me say: If Aptera can release you from the extreme Automotive Industrie that is made to burn your Pocket. It will pay out the Minute your fossil Car is gone.
MemberAugust 13, 2022 at 3:17 pm
My thoughts exactly with an add on I don’t care if it costs the same as an ice at least I’m smiling every mile driving a unique vehicle.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 11:00 am
Only comparing savings based on the free 40 miles of recharge per day it will take 18.5 years to pay for itself compared to my tesla model 3 and 9.5 years compared to my gas car.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 11:20 am
My last “oil change” cost me nearly $1,600 and a month’s use of my car. (Broken spark plug replacement immediately followed by fuel injector failure on my Malibu hybrid, plus dealing with slow shipping speeds sending the plugs then the injectors to Alaska.)
I am kind of liking the idea of not having to deal with an ICE of any kind. It’s feeling like the question goes beyond $$$.
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 6:36 pm
👍 Well stated!
MemberAugust 8, 2022 at 12:00 pm
Of course everyone’s numbers will be different, but the average should be 10 to 12 years. Now if you actually keep it the 40 years that it is predicted to last that would be paying for it self 3 or 4 times.
MemberAugust 9, 2022 at 1:42 am
Maybe we even shouldn’t compare the Aptera to ICE vehicles because the latter ones are already condemned to be a thing of the past.. The savings compared to other EVs might take many years until the difference paid for electricity will have paid for the Aptera, but all savings (including taxes, insurance and maybe less expensive repairs due to the right to repair) plus other benefits still remain remarkable though:
- Free mileage from direct solar energy on it’s own (compared to solar energy from one’s home roof that first had to be stored in another battery and plugging in the vehicle),
- composite material shell that will not corrode,
- better, unbeatable overall efficiency
- plus is the Aptera the coolest vehicle design available (well, soon available at least – I’m confident of that)
MemberAugust 9, 2022 at 7:09 am
Possibly the question should be framed differently, maybe a better question is what does it cost, not buying the Aptera. Well, a lot more carbon in the atmosphere, who knows what gas prices might be in ten years? Not having to smell those hydrocarbons being burned, and placed into a tank, is way much better for the average person’s health. Asthmatics, will rejoice, and some species might even survive that might not otherwise. The cost benefits analysis is pretty hard on this one. But I am convinced it severs the earth’s needs too. Good luck placing that into a balance sheet. But we all need to take better care of mother earth, and this serves that, and it should be a blast to drive too.
Currently, I drive a Prius Eco, getting decent milage, and a surprising well-made car. My biggest reason is cost of operation. On a per mile basis, I get a fair amount out of this Prius, and it gets around 55+ MPG on average for me. The EPA rates electric vehicles and places an MPGe rating. Due to its light weight, aerodynamic shape, it might get a rating as high as 355 MPGe. So about 6.45 times more on the equivalent basis, according to that guesstimate. Now, Prius, made a decent car, kind of ugly, but it works well. great utility and longevity on the road are proven too. But, frankly Aptera, is not ugly, (quirky maybe), and if Chris and Steve have done the job as well as it appears, the longevity will be great too. So, the deprecation of course is built in, as advancements occur, past experience dictates. Might be a rarity, but demand for this might make a value uptick, instead of the normal downtick. You question makes me feel it is a bigger risk, higher cost not buying this vehicle, than buying it. Unless of course you can walk to work or live a life with no vehicle.
MemberAugust 9, 2022 at 5:38 pm
I don’t care.
I am buying it because it will be maintenance free, a two seater, sleek, and 0-60 in 3.5 seconds.
At my age, I intend to have all the fun I can !
MemberAugust 9, 2022 at 7:30 pm
Exactly as Pistonboy D says…but also add inexpensive to run sports car!
The days of oily and gassy garages will soon be a much healthier environment to boot. Electric cars also don’t heat up your garage in the summer. Somehow it seems also easier to keep my garage somewhat cleaner.
The realty is that APTERA fills so many subcategories other than most efficient.
MemberAugust 12, 2022 at 5:49 am
What price freedom? No more gas station stops. No more oil changes. Awake every morning to a “full tank” with a simple wall socket charger. Free miles whenever I park outside. Lightness of heart as my local trips are powered by the sun. No more worry about scheduling local errands carefully to pack as much as I can into one gas-burning trip. Cleaner air, cleaner garage.
As I get older, the noise, drama and wrenching associated with operating and maintaining an ICE vehicle is rapidly losing appeal. Aptera frees me to devote my time to other interests.
Can you factor those into a simple cost spreadsheet?
MemberAugust 12, 2022 at 6:25 am
_this_ ^^^^^ is the only real payback! <thumbs up>
MemberAugust 12, 2022 at 7:41 am
If I only use it as a commuter car ? Over 20 years , if I get rid of my 3 ice cars and my Harley and drive it 7 days a week ? 10 years. (And that doesn’t factor in the price or electric if I should have to charge it ) or any of the costs of ownership other than the payments,
Once I factor in my insurance being higher , the cost kWh , maintenance on the aptera.
I’m spending way more than my ice cars.
MemberAugust 12, 2022 at 7:54 am
Chris wants to redefine the original question, sound familiar ?
No Chris there is no cost to NOT buying the aptera. Roughly 27000 pre-orders
There are roughly 1.46 billion ice cars in the world that we know of ( registered )that’s .0018% of the cars on the road are now apteras. Do you really a drop of water in the Proverbial ocean is going to make one bit of difference ?
To quote a famous re-definer. “Come on man”
- This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Patrick Liebknecht.
MemberAugust 12, 2022 at 11:19 am
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘pay for itself’.. If you mean how long until the money saved by not buying gas will equal the price of the vehicle… decades?
Compared to my current vehicle, I think that the aptera will cost me quite a bit. I own my car, and the insurance is fairly low, so I’ll only really save on gas and maintenance. At the same time, I’ll probably be paying more for insurance, and I’ll have a big loan payment tacked on as well.
The real value that I see in the aptera is that of reliability and a foot in the door of the future. I also really want to support Aptera and in turn, the philosophy of right to repair.
MemberAugust 12, 2022 at 3:12 pm
My only reason for buying is I rather have a car that has a big battery and the ability to self-charge over a gas car that requires constant maintenance and gas. Financially, I would be better off avoiding all EVs and just sticking with my cheap ICE sedan. Unless this car can power the grid and I can leave it somewhere and make a few bucks from those solar cells, I never see it paying for itself unless it appreciates like a tesla.
MemberAugust 13, 2022 at 4:29 pm
When compared to the beaters I usually drive, I don’t think the savings in fuel or maintenance could pay for the additional tens of thousands of dollars in purchase price of the Aptera in the years I have left. That said, I consider the peace of mind of knowing I’m using the lowest-carbon form of transport available to me to be priceless.
MemberAugust 14, 2022 at 6:47 pm
& all who think EVs are saving the planet
MemberAugust 14, 2022 at 7:58 pm
It read “the website you’re trying to reach cannot be found”, that was breezy reading!
MemberAugust 14, 2022 at 8:11 pm
Yeah that’s a pretty crappy thing than unscrupulous entrepreneurs and a blind eye turning government just looking for their own kickbacks are doing. But using that filth laden brush to paint the push for EV adoption in a bad light is a stretch at best. Disingenuous at worst.
Rare earths are used in all kinds of electronics for more decades than EVs have been a significant thing and consumers have been throwing their electronics out and buying new well before any kind of end of life (or worse they are simply designed for obsolescence) for all that time. The shear willfully ignorant stupidity of that boggles a more conscientious mind.
Setting aside that rant, the notion that because of this or any other misdeeds that can tied however loosely to efforts to make the world a better place overall, we should all just throw up our hands and do nothing is non sequitur. That’s what those same consequence denying, greedy people would like us to do.
It’s like those movie villains who say, “do what I want or I will start killing hostages and it will all be your fault!” No, it will still be your <the bad guy’s > fault and it remains for the rest of us to make the best of things we can in a world that invariably includes turds like you <again the bad guy>.
MemberAugust 14, 2022 at 8:26 pm
I think this is the link
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 3:15 am
Hype to fill ones pockets, that’s all that is, and there’s many. Global warming is real but nothing humans did caused it and nothing done will prevent it. It’s just how the world turns.
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 8:42 am
I’m trying to figure out how the green movement works.
It’s okay to destroy large parts of the world ( like Myanmar ) as long as we save the part we live in ?
I’m pretty sure there are some tigers and red pandas and untold amounts of creatures who would disagree with that. But they don’t live in the area we are trying to save and they don’t vote or pay taxes.
Just like it’s okay to destroy 100s of 1000s of acres of farm land to put up solar panels or wind turbines, we don’t really need to eat anyway right ?
- This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by Patrick Liebknecht.
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 8:42 am
Pay for itself? This is a very interesting question.
How far do we want to dive down the rabbit hole of passenger vehicle economics? Which costs do you include in the calculation (or which costs do you not include). There are initial costs, operating and maintenance costs (includes fuel, repairs, insurance, etc.), opportunity costs, environmental costs, social costs, lifecycle costs, depreciation, inflation, pleasure value, etc.?
If it helps, I have built, owned, leased, and driven EVs for 25 years and I have figured out the fuel costs for operating an ICE has been roughly $0.15 per mile. Assuming you only dirve “solar miles” ($0.00), the acquisition cost of the vehicle is ~$30k, use Aptera’s “41 mile” per day solar range, and you drive every day, in fuel savings alone you should be able to cover your initial investment in 12 years. I made a lot of assumptions to come up with 12 years and have not included any other savings to come up with this number, but I suspect the amount of time to pay off the Aptera will be less.
LMK know if you have any questions.
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 8:57 am
When I see word thrown around like “responsible” and they are followed with EV, I get skeptical and do research on just how “responsible” EVs are and how they saving the world from global climate change.
When an article like this shows up on my google feed. I feel the need to post it in places where I see words like “responsible” thrown around.
Or when I posted the article about wind turbines killing scores of Bald and golden eagles and someone posted how cats kill birds all the time ( apples vs oranges ) you don’t get fined $5,000 and a year in prison when your car eats a sparrow.
So I’m asking, are EVs truly “responsible” is there any difference between drilling a hole in the ground to pump oil and make CO2 and the deforestation of huge areas of the world for rare earths to make batteries ?
Or is just fine as long as it’s not in “my backyard” ?
I thought climate change was a global problem, isn’t deforestation a global problem ? Considering trees clean the air of CO2 which is claimed to cause climate change ?
MemberAugust 15, 2022 at 11:42 am
“So I’m asking, are EVs truly “responsible” is there any difference between drilling a hole in the ground to pump oil and make CO2 and the deforestation of huge areas of the world for rare earths to make batteries?”
Well let me see. The vast majority of what goes into making an EV should be recycle-able. And there are folks working really hard and reportedly making great strides in making it so. Can’t say I’ve heard of anyone trying to recycle the million of gallons so petroleum we currently burn thru everyday. That sounds like EVs are movement in the right direction to me.
Again, bad people are going to jump onto that wagon and try to make there ill gotten gains from it. That doesn’t make it the wrong wagon to be on. It just means we of good conscience need to see the bad (as you are so good at pointing out) and push them off where we can. Or take some of that money you will be saving and put it to environmental reclamation?
It’s not like the current paradigm isn’t trashing things already. That’s the hell bound hand basket we all need to be bailing from!