How much are the fancy battery chargers?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions How much are the fancy battery chargers?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions How much are the fancy battery chargers?

  • How much are the fancy battery chargers?

     John Malcom updated 7 months ago 10 Members · 26 Posts
  • Spenser Pousette

    Member
    December 2, 2021 at 9:45 am

    I live the idea of just using a normal plug, but with less then 20 miles a hour , I know I’ll need one. Is it the same as a Tesla or any other ev? Thanks

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    December 2, 2021 at 9:54 am

    Hi, Spenser. In one video, the charging plug in the rear of the Aptera looked like the Tesla type plug. Since this was an Alpha vehicle, we’ll have to wait until the final design is set for the production Apterae to be sure of what kind of plug is used. My guess is that it is likely Aptera will include a charging cable of some kind with the purchase of the vehicle.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    December 2, 2021 at 10:06 am

    EVSEs are pretty cheap. I paid $600 for a ClipperCreek 32A J1772 EVSE in 2016 and $500 for a Tesla 48A EVSE in 2019. Installation for the ClipperCreek, i.e. running a 240V 40A line and hooking it up was $375, but that was part of a bigger job where I also upgraded my panel to 200A. Installation for the Tesla EVSE was $750, that was for a new 60A 240V line and hooking up the EVSE.

    The Aptera will be using J1772. There are a lot of good J1772 EVSEs available, I can recommend ClipperCreek, my unit is built like a tank.

    You don’t want to use a regular plug because that wiring is shared with other things on the circuit. You want a dedicated 240V EVSE. Having a permanently wired EVSE is much more convenient than using the portable EVSE that will come with the car especially if you don’t have a garage. My EVSEs are attached to the side of my house next to my driveway, when I get out of the car I just grab the plug and plug it in. With a portable EVSE you would have to roll it up and put it in your car before you leave and take it out when you get home because you don’t want to leave it hanging on an outside wall where it could get stolen. If you have a garage then you don’t have to worry about theft but so you could leave a portable hanging from a peg on the wall. I’d still recommend putting in a dedicated EVSE.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 2, 2021 at 10:38 am

      I don’t think we know for sure what the plug will end up being. I think many are still hoping for a tesla plug. If you have some specific source of this information it would be great to see some confirmation from a company source.

      The J1772 is typically only a type 1 charger as I understand it so it would be an odd choice. I would expect CCS if it isn’t a Tesla plug.

      I don’t think anyone should rush into installing a charger until we know for sure.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        December 2, 2021 at 10:48 am

        I thought I saw it in the FAQ but perhaps it was mentioned in this forum. The FAQ is giving less and less info on charging, maybe it’s still up in the air.

        They were talking about a paltry 50KW DC rate and they haven’t said anything about the AC rate. I hope they are going to fix that. If they do manage to license the Tesla plug and they stick with a 50KW rate then charging the Aptera at a Supercharger will be very expensive, Tesla has already said they intend to have a higher rate for slow charging cars as they should because slow cars tie up the Supercharger for much longer.

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          December 2, 2021 at 11:40 am

          Very likely the 50KW rate is due to thermal dissipation capability since they don’t have fans to exhaust the heat. Pretty sure tesla’s 3rd party rate for superchargers is lower than max speed and if you look at typical charge curves the 250kw vs 200kw for example only saves 1-2 minutes. Charging is a curve not a constant speed.

          Due to energy efficiency even if charged at 50KW the Aptera will functionally get the same range as another EV at ~150KW.

          • John Malcom

            Member
            December 2, 2021 at 1:42 pm

            Curtis is correct. No plug configuration has been officially announced yet. Many are pulling for a Tesla plug with access to the Tesla fast charging network which may be available to other than Tesla cars in the relatively near future. Of course, that will depend on some arrangement worked out with Tesla

            CCS makes the best sense if Tesla will not be available. Many in the Forum have thoughts about charger plugs and expressed them in the previous forum which is archived.

            For me, the type of plug is not as important because the vehicle is so efficient, the battery mileage so high, and the organic solar charging available makes it so charging is not as much of an issue as it is for other EVs.

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              December 2, 2021 at 3:06 pm

              They have said – several times – that Aptera will have CCS charging.

              Note that the Tesla charging connector is used only in the US and Canada: Teslas in the rest of the world use CCS.

            • BigSky Country

              Member
              December 3, 2021 at 10:17 am

              I hope so. Personally, I’m pulling for CCS because I don’t want to get locked into the Tesla’s closed network. I want flexibility and I’d rather go with standards that the broader industry is going with. Tesla has been pushed to CCS in Europe as someone mentioned and I do not believe Tesla will win the DC charging standard that will inevitably need to be determined in the future. I think CCS has a much better chance of winning that fight. Finally, there is a lot of free J-1772 out there that is useful which works well with the CCS design. For such an efficient car, I can get a lot of mileage plugged in while at the supermarket. For a company big on Right to Repair, I’d think going with Tesla would be a mistake.

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          December 2, 2021 at 3:04 pm

          They did, actually: At one point they mentioned using a 3.2 kW onboard charger because it was small and didn’t generate much heat. As most new EVs are using at least 6.6 kW chargers, well…

          • John Malcom

            Member
            December 2, 2021 at 6:39 pm

            This is the Aptera statement and an observation of Aptera charging plugs, at that time as reported by Clean Technica. Much could have changed from that time of course. Maybe even a decision.

            On December 4, 2020, Aptera Motors revealed the Aptera solar powered prototype including a photo showing what appears to be a Tesla Supercharger shaped connector being plugged into the Aptera’s charging port. Speculation then started concerning whether or not the Aptera will use Tesla’s Charging Network. When contacted by CleanTechnica, the news site, Aptera said “which [fast-charging] plug the vehicle will have is still an open question.”

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              December 3, 2021 at 7:48 am

              I refer you to this item from the Aptera FAQ:

            • BigSky Country

              Member
              December 3, 2021 at 10:31 am

              This is a bit of a kitchen sink answer. I’d be shocked if they support ChadeMO at this point. Sounds like they are pretty open to picking their standard, but will have adapters to support more than 1 platform

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              December 3, 2021 at 10:50 pm

              They have no intention of supporting ChaDeMo – they are using it to describe Electrify America charging stations and other charging stations that have ChaDeMo and CCS, hence the slash.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    December 2, 2021 at 11:31 am

    For most EVs, 120V is barely adequate. 240V is overkill but very nice to have. If you want to drive home after 4 hours on the road, plug in for 2 hours, then go out again 240V is really nice. That’s really the only time it’s useful. For Aptera 120V should be more than plenty. I wouldn’t bother with any more unless you plan on getting some other EV in the future like a Cybertruck or F-150 or other power-hungry EV.

    If you want to upgrade:

    Get a 240V wall outlet put in. 14-50 50A outlet is the gold standard ($200-$800). A lower power wall outlet is fine too especially for lower power cars like Aptera.

    Get a 16A 240V cord ($200) from a reputable supplier. https://store.evsolutions.com/turbocord-ev-charger-c20.aspx

    Or get a 32A 240V cord ($300) from a reputable supplier.

    Or you can get a wall-mounted 32A unit for $600 with wifi that will give you a report of how much power you used every month. Chargepoint, Wall Box, Clipper Creek, Enel-X Juicebox, Grizzl-E, Bosch, Webasto, Tesla, etc are all reputable and UL certified. Tesla has a J1772 charger now, but if you get a Tesla type plug you’ll need an adapter.

    Leave your charger plugged in all the time (so the contacts don’t wear out as much) and hang the charger on the wall next to where you park. Pull in, plug in, walk away. It’s super easy. If you get creative and can hang the cable from the ceiling you can avoid tripping hazards too. Or wrap the cable in striped tape.

    Whatever you do, don’t buy a cord that isn’t UL or Intertek certified. These cheap cables (Like Mustart from Amazon) have a reputation for melting the charging port on the car.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    December 2, 2021 at 3:11 pm

    What you’re talking about is a “Level 2 EVSE” – a 220V power supply.

    They are available for hard-wire (permanent) installation or as plug-in units, requiring a NEMA 14-50 receptacle (the kind used by electric clothes dryers).

    Home Depot sells factory-refurbished Siemens Versicharge units at a very good price: They’re basic – no wifi – and they’re not stylish but they work like a charm!

    Check with your electrical utility: They might offer rebates. I got $250 back from mine!

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 2, 2021 at 4:36 pm

      Fair point. That will definitely work regardless of the plug on the car. The only issue is some people like overpriced plastic boxes with a hook to hang the cable on.

      Personally I think most people are jumping the gun since you will probably get 150-170 miles per night (12 hours) off 120V

      • Ray Holan

        Moderator
        December 3, 2021 at 9:01 am

        I agree with your advice to wait before purchasing an EVSE from Clipper Creek or any other supplier. Depending upon your use scenario, a 110V approach might be just fine. Several years ago I had a 2014 Chevy Volt. I found that 110V charging for too slow so I did spring for a Clipper Creek wall unit that gave me good service. I was in a situation where I would deplete the battery with morning errands and wanted to do afternoon errands with a full battery. I couldn’t charge fast enough with the 110V for that. As has been pointed out, if overnight charging of your Aptera works for you, no urgent need to invest in 220V charging. I suspect though that most Aptera owners would welcome the insurance of the fast charging provided by that method.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    December 3, 2021 at 9:10 am

    Let’s make this as simple as possible. If you have a 220 line for your dryer you’re set. Simple jump from the same breaker and add the socket. My model 3 works just fine. If you know a handy man they can charger at the same time. I charge mine from 12 midnight until 6AM when the rates are cheapest for my area.

    Most times I just use the 110 line.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    December 3, 2021 at 2:19 pm

    Only 50kW for DC charging unless forum comments have convinced them to increase the limit. I think a lot of things still to sort out on charging in Beta. With long battery range the charging issue becomes less critical for outside of the home.

    My first EV was a Leaf with two connectors. One for Level I and II and a CHAdeMO which I never used as I charged at home at night and only used the car for commuting to work. CCS of course allows for AC and DC charging from the same port eliminating the need for the additional J1772. certainly makes sense if there is a need for Level I and II charging and fast charging.

    I have a Tesla Model 3 now so am use to the Tesla fast charging connector here in the U.S.

    I am probably biased but I like the Tesla network. Always available where I drive and the charging is fast.

    At the end of the day I will take what ever standard Aptera decides on and the they provide as I know they are rigorous about picking the most efficient solution


    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 3, 2021 at 4:08 pm

      Do you think that given the right to repair commitment and need for different plugs for international buyers that the port could be a small modular component? This would seem to be a way to design one product and support varied formats for different countries.

      Tesla manufactured cars in the US for Europe with CCS2 ports while simultaneously making for the NA market with their own plug; The number of the components that needed to be changed should ideally be fairly small.

      Aptera has reservation holders in australia and europe where a Tesla plug or CCS1 not very useful.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        December 3, 2021 at 5:46 pm

        Actually Curtis, a really good idea! Fits with efficient design , standardization, simplification as well. You should suggest that in a note to their CC contact to pass on to the engineering team. As an ambassador I have another chain to send through and will suggest they read your post. Hopefully not to far into Beta to consider it

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          December 4, 2021 at 9:02 am

          If you can communicate it that would be great – obviosly you have the background to better explain and knowledge of how to best reach out. Quite possibly they already take this approach but it’s not the kind of detail to be in the FAQ. While I am now in the ambassitor program (as of a new days ago) I haven’t had time to examine the resources yet much.

          • John Malcom

            Member
            December 4, 2021 at 10:04 am

            Great to hear! you area great addition!

      • Robert Klasson

        Member
        December 4, 2021 at 6:20 am

        Unless I’m mistaken, Everything about CCS1 and CCS2 are identical except the physical connector. If I ran a supplier of charging ports, I would make standard CCS1 and CCS2 connectors with the same car-side interface, both mechanically and electrically, so it would be possible to swap without any design changes to the rest of the car.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        December 4, 2021 at 7:39 am

        Robert, no such supplier is available and I suspect will not be. I agree that engineering changes should be avoided if possible. But, if one has good down range benefits, both technically and cost/ benefit then it should be evaluated for adoption.

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