How will the deliveries be done.

[William Baker]

I was wondering. When its time, how will the deliveries be done. Will there be fleets of private contractors with flat bed trailers? Or semi car carrier with special built center wheel track spots. Any ideas. Somebody is going to be very busy organizing this.

[GLENN ZAJIC]

Guess you haven’t heard of the Aptferrys. Only the vehicle is wingless flight, not the deliveries!????

[Henri Miller]

Nice.

[Leonard Nowak]

No idea. Suggested “initially” to use existing carriers like Carvana and Vroom who have the flat bed trucks, experience with their flat bed trucks??? Open flat bed delivery trucks show off your cargo! Some like closed truck beds to protect the new vehicles from the elements/debris/ hide the the precious cargo???

Transport gets more involved when they are into the ten of thousands per year????

( Credit…. I marked up this attachment below with Photofunia)

[Gabriel Kemeny]

There will likely be two different kinds of deliveries. One for the factory to regional warehouses (that was mentioned in their SEC filing) which would be in high volume (could be train, large trucks, etc) and the second to the customers, which would likely be flatbed truck or car trailer.

[John Malcom]

Thanks for this research, I imagine you could pick up at the “Factory” as well at some point if you were willing to pay the state of CA for their registration I think even if you are going to use the car in another state.

Regardless of how it is done, Gabe is certainly correct in his post that this is a major enterprise and if deliveries to reservation holders will start in early 2022 work should already be underway on the selected approach(s) and arrangements and contracts/leases for support services initiated.

Perhaps in one of the upcoming monthly updates we can hear about this plan and a plan for support of “Right to repair” for early reservation holders.

It is good to know progress on engineering and development of the Aptera, but having the vehicle ready for production and produced but not able to deliver or support would be a big disappointment and a major hit on the credibility of the Aptera Company at a time when it is important to make the case with potential buyers and the auto/EV industry that Aptera has ALL of their “Stuff” together

[Joy Pan]

I wonder about that too. I am on O’ahu and I’d love to pick up my Aptera in CA and drive to Kalakaua Ave HI. Love free delivery to the Island when I order stuffs.

[George Hughes]

I understand that the Aptera floats with the doors open 🙂

[Leonard Nowak]

Don’t do this at home…

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[Danny Mattijetz]

Ok, so I mentioned this on the old forum too. You can pick up your vehicle in California and drive it to Oahu, but you’d have to cross that bridge when you come to it.

[Raj Giandeep]

I’m in Utah. I personally would drive down with my dad to pick it up & start the first road trip with the mighty Aptera.

[Derek Fowler]

You guys have it easy. I’m in New Zealand so I’m wondering about international deliveries. We obviously import all our cars here. I may talk to my local ev car sales and see if they are aware of Aptera and if they can facilitate the importation. My order is 7008 and is saying delivery 2022. I thought they may do US builds first before international but if mine is still saying next year, then maybe they are sticking to the order sequence. I guess we will hear more from Aptera as we get closer to the first builds going out. I’m also hoping mine is not the first in NZ so someone else can get the regulatory wheels oiled. (Sorry about the fossil metaphor ).

[Gabriel Kemeny]

Very likely all orders have a 2022 delivery date – that is unlikely to change till well into next year. In addition to a non-US configuration, you have the added hurdle of the team designing a right hand drive version – that may take a while.

[Derek Fowler]

I hope you’re wrong about the delivery dates. I believe they have quite a few international orders and there are a number of right-hand drive countries around. I thought I read or heard the right hand drive configuration was not a big hurdle to overcome. Anyway, time will tell.

[Joshua Rosen]

There has to be at least a year delay before they have a right hand drive version, maybe more. It’s a small company with limited resources, even massive companies take a while before they do a right hand drive version. How strict are New Zealand’s homologation rules? Do you have your own or do you use someone else’s?

[Cameron McGuinness]

#4500 here in Australia… RHD model will be the last built I presume…. I’m expecting 2023.

[Donald Kraper]

Have been considering a factory delivery and driving to south florida. Would be great to meet the team members, it would be a fun trip/experience, and would probably get some good exposure for the car.

[kerbe2705]

I’m still hoping for either giant electric drones or unicorn-drawn wagons: Please do not disabuse me of my dreams…

[Richard Marks]

I’ve been wondering if there will be some way to test drive before delivery? I’m in Ohio so would be great if they had some kind of traveling demo program.

[kerbe2705]

At present Aptera has described a 7-day, 1000-mile, no-questions-asked return policy…

It may very well fall to the volunteer “Aptera Brand Ambassadors” in each state to make their personal vehicles available for test-drives.

I suspect, though, that Aptera will be visiting major auto and EV events around the country once production starts.

[Ray Holan]

Hi, Richard. I’m in Cleveland Ohio. Maybe we could get a discount on delivering both our Aptera’s on the same ticket. LOL. Where are you located?

[Ron Ledohowski]

Speediest & easiest for ours. Husband AND wife both purchasing fully optioned. Marketing opportunity? Tell me “ours” are ready & we’ll go “wherever” we need to. ????

Dreaming of those (two) identical Aptera “introductions” & subsequent road trip(s) home; well documented & live.

I’m like a kid. Can’t wait!

[Leonard Nowak]

Maybe you can track their delivery truck

[Bob Kirchner]

Vert-A-Pacs!

[Loren Gilbert]

I live in a rural area southwest of Denver and the sales tax rate here is 4%. The sales tax rate in San Diego is 7.75%. I would love to fly out to San Diego and pick up my Aptera at the factory, meet the team, and have a really nice road trip home but the difference in sales tax would amount to $1245 based on my current configuration, and then there is the cost of the air fare to San Diego as well. I’m not sure that it makes sense for me to do a factory pick-up. Maybe the best thing for me is to take delivery here in Colorado and then one day drive out to San Diego to meet the team.

[Robin Galston]

thanks for posting as I’m a Deverite as well

[John Malcom]

A reminder/summary for all. Aptera will sell the vehicles directly. No dealers (Good because where I live, dealer fees are astronomical) If you pick it up at the factory, you will pay CA tax regardless of what state it will reside in. Of course, if picking up from a factory somewhere else, the rules of that location apply. A poster who lives in a state other than CA but buys cars in CA, says you can hire a service to drive the car over the state line and process the sale to avoid the CA tax. Perhaps chances to test drive at various locations, but if not then the great Aptera return policy will save the day.

[kerbe2705]

Tesla vehicles are purchased online and the purchasers pay the sales tax in their own state – they don’t pay the sales tax where the vehicle is produced. I’m thinking the only way you’d pay CA sales tax is if you went to CA with cash or your checkbook and purchased the Aptera there: Delivery or pick-up shouldn’t play into it.

[John Malcom]

Ken, are you from CA and can you confirm that if a vehicle is purchased on line and delivery is at factory in San Diego, with the home state outside of CA that no fees need to be paid to CA?

[Arlen Bell]

This delivery and sales tax issue needs to be worked out. I’m in New Jersey which exempts EV’s from sales tax. Shipping to New Jersey is going to be outrageously expensive unless it can somehow ship in bulk on a modified car carrier. I thought a solution might be to ship on rail car vehicle carriers. However, all I’ve found so far is a maximum vehicle width of 84 inches. I’m wondering if it’s feasible to ship Aptera crated with the front wheels detached? Still potentially complicated, but someone needs to be working on delivery and the tax considerations. We need some top notch legal/tax expert working on this.

[Kelley Winters]

I purchased my Bolt (a decision I lived to regret) in Colorado and drove it to my residence in southern California. The sale was documented by the Colorado dealer as a California transaction. I did not pay Colorado sales tax, although I was charged a small state registration fee for the temporary license tags. I paid the enormous California sales tax and registration when I arrived home. My only penalty was that I was not eligible for a California EV cash incentive because I did not purchase my car from a California dealer. However, the Colorado price was lower than California prices for the same car by more than the amount of state incentives, so I came out ahead.

I’m an engineer nerd and don’t give tax advice, but my understanding is that vehicle sales taxes are paid to the state of residence where the car is registered, not at the point of purchase. I’m happy to be corrected if this is wrong.

[Robin Galston]

thank you for your comment, trying to figure this out too!

[Danny Mattijetz]

I’m ready for mine now. My Leaf has been in the shop for three weeks. It needs to have a water pump replaced. I didn’t even know it had a water pump, but that’s what they said. The part has to come from Tennessee (I’m in LA). We thought the part made it to LA last week, but that was wrong. Latest info says October 4. Once in LA it gets FedEx’d to Ontario. Then a day to do the work. Maybe I’ll see the car between five and six weeks. Can I have my Aptera now please?

[Robin Galston]

How’d it go? What did the car do when the pump went out? (I drive LEAF)

[Philip Raymond]

I’ll gladly fly out to San Diego to pick it up and hopefully, tour the plant as well. Then drive it back to Chicago, via Dallas, where my son and grandson will get a ride in it.

[Joshua Rosen]

Delivery is the easy part of the problem, I assume they’ll just ship it to you on a car carrier. That will be more convenient than going to a dealer to pick it up. My two concerns are how will they offer test drives and how will they handle service. I won’t buy a car I haven’t driven and once I have it I want to have a means of servicing it aside from putting it on a truck and shipping it to California. Rangers can only do so much, there has to be a garage somewhere that can do more serious work. I’d like to see them set up a system where they can qualify, provide training for, and authorize independent garages. I’d also like for them to be proactive and reach out to repair shops that are already handling EVs. For example call Electrified Garage, which has one shop in New Hampshire and two in Florida, and setup a formal authorized repair agreement with them.

[Leonard Nowak]

I am sure you saw Aptera’s videos and answers in the website’s FAQ/ spreadsheet. Granted at this point it is not detailed and those “ arrangements, like suppliers all need to be ironed out.

https://insideevs.com/news/441170/aptera-wants-anyone-repair-its-evs/

I have only experienced the present Aptera “from the passenger seat” ????and that was only an Alpha FWD model, but I also had a ride in the original Aptera back about 2009. So exciting “ for me” to follow where “the original founders/ owners” are taking this.

Remember stories like this:.

Elios was going to use Pep Boys “trained” to repair their vehicle….

EM Solo has not yet revealed “ in any detail” who/how they will service Solo

Important… “ Work In Progress “( WIP)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Joshua Rosen]

I don’t think they’ve thought through the service problem yet. Elio’s solution clearly came from an MBA not an engineer. By doing a deal with Pep Boys they can claim that they have service everywhere in the country but in reality they won’t have any service. Pep Boys does oil changes and brakes, they don’t have the kind of mechanics that can solve complex problems. They also have zero experience with EVs and unless the corporation want’s to pursue the EV business in a serious way and do deals with multiple manufacturers, not just a no hoper like Elio, and invest in training they can’t possible be a primary service point.

Service is an area where the legacy companies have a huge advantage. They have thousands of dealers and they can force those dealers to invest in the equipment and training necessary. Look at what GM has done with Cadillac, they’ve given their dealers an ultimatum, either invest $200K in EV service and support or get out.

Tesla is going it alone. The only option is Tesla Service Centers, they allow third party body shops but refuse to deal with third party service shops. Everyone loves their cars and their charging network but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks their service solution is adequate. They are great if you have something simple that a Ranger can do in your driveway, I’ve had my brakes cleaned and tires rotated at home, but if you need an actual repair the service centers are inconveniently located if you are lucky enough to live in a state that has them or out of reach if you live elsewhere.

Aptera isn’t going to be able to build service centers outside of their home region any time soon, they just won’t have the volumes to justify them. They are planning to have Rangers but that’s not a complete solution. I’m thinking that recruiting independent garages that already have the basics like lifts and have a business that sustains them already and providing training to handle them. They will need to limit the number of garages that they support in each state so that they don’t cannibalize the business, and they will need to make sure they are competent. I can see where a younger garage owner who is worried about the long time viability of his business would want to find a way to transition to EVs. There is going to be a massive shake out in the service industry starting in about 10-15 years because EVs will need so much less service than ICEVs, getting on board with EV service now, even if it’s a small part of their business, will pay big dividends in the future.

[John Malcom]

The information in Len’s post is a start. Of course that represented thinking sometime ago. I am sure that that thinking and planning has advanced from that point. I believe the current management team have the skills and experienced to develop a number of alternatives, set criteria for evaluating, and select and implement the best for its customers.

At one point in my previous life, I managed the development of GM’s current world wide Warranty System and connections to engineering, sales and dealer operations. Of course it is a complex system because of all of the models and model years they need to support, national and local laws requiring compliance. Their cars are very complex, mostly ICE, and require a lot of warranty and repair support. They are by no means “Right to Repair” and have built their infrastructure accordingly. Also their cars are not engineered to support simple and easy repair. Somewhat on purpose as service is a large revenue generator for legacy car companies.

Aptera has two advantages that mitigate the need for a legacy type service infrastructure”

– Engineered for easy production and high reliability

– Simple design that facilitates “Right to repair” by an owner

I do not believe that “Right to repair” as currently described will be adequate for a majority of users. It is a fully electric car with high voltage safety concerns, complex electronics and computing components. To properly diagnose a defect may require sophisticated diagnostic equipment. Certainly not all owners will be able to obtain or use such equipment. Repair will consist of system level parts (New computer, controller, etc.) which will be expensive.

I am technically inclined, but don’t feel qualified, even if I had the service level manuals, to diagnose and repair some of the things that could go wrong.

All of that said, I trust the engineers and managers at Aptera including the new VP of production to devise the right creative approach, plan and schedule it implementation.

Certainly there will be issues until everything is running smoothly but certainly not anything close to what a new ICE vehicle would require.

Management and Engineering at Aptera know infinitely more than most of us, so lest refrain from say the sky is falling and have some trust and patience. It is all worth it to own and drive this remarkable vehicle and to be able to tell others we were in on the ground floor for this game changing vehicle

[Len Marinaccio]

I hesitated to buy a Prius for fear that I would never be able to work on it. I now find it pretty simple once I have learned how it works. I believe Apterra will be the same BUT it will require diagnostic tools. The (hopefully) good news? A wide array of problems in a Prius can be diagnosed through the OBDC port with a $25 dongle and an app. I am hopeful that Aptera will use a similar approach. Getting live data from the Prius goes far beyond error codes. Since this is a matter of software and the computer will already have access to almost anything that is happening, I would expect that live data delivery will be provided with Aptera. From there it’s just developing troubleshooting procedures. Not that hard.

The Ranger idea is not bad but there needs to be factory training spun up as soon as cars are being produced. Of course there will be bumps in the road but issues of maintenance need to be allayed as fast as possible to prevent nay-sayers in the media from stigmatizing the Aptera. On the positive side of that, I expect Aptera to issue press releases about the improvements planned for the second generation not long after the first generation hits the streets – showing that they are ahead of the game.

[Harry Parker]

My understanding is that no ODB type tool will be required. Rather, all the diagnostic messages will be available straight from the main screen. The service and repair manuals will be built into the Aptera and available as a free download from the company’s web site.

[Len Marinaccio]

I like the idea of straightforward error messages! However I strongly suggest that live data be made available because it allows diagnosis of problems that were not anticipated by the software developers. Case in point? I installed a bunch of temperature sensors at key points in the circulation system of a house I own that is heated by moving hot water throughout. These sensors report to me across the country so I can keep tabs on it. When testing this from 2500 miles away, I noticed an anomaly in temperature near a junction after the circulation pump turned off (also detectable by temperature variances). After some thought, I phoned a relative at the house and asked him to go up to one particular room and bleed air out of the line. He doubted there was any but sure enough there was and afterwards the temp readings were normal.

It was totally unexpected that I would be able to spot such a problem but the live data presented the clues I needed. Using an app called, “Torque” I have been able to do the same thing with the Prius. So I think this would be VERY helpful because some pretty smart people (and maybe even me) could use it and perhaps further the development of new error messages.

All that said, this could be present in a future firmware release as there are bigger fish to fry right now. But using “Torque” as an example of how to make customizable diagnostic screens could offer an easy way to make this happen. If the software in the car is open source, you can bet I’ll give it a shot! If the developers wanted to incorporate it, they could. It would not be the first time for me.

[Joshua Rosen]

I love the idea that ODB type data will be available on the main screen rather than an antique ODBII port, that’s where it belongs. It would also be nice if it was available through the app, if the screen fails you still need access to this data and it’s interesting to have at your fingertips even if nothing is wrong. Tesla uses an Ethernet port for it’s techs rather than a ODBII port which is fine for the techs but for users the only way to get at the data is to hack an ODBII port in by removing a panel and sticking in an connector, that sucks. The ODBII port is from the 90s, it makes about as much sense now as an RS232 port on a computer, you have have a computer and a big screen in modern cars plus they are all Internet connected, so it only makes sense that all of the internal diagnostic data be available the screen and via the Internet.

[Philip Raymond]

Joshua brings up some very good points and I thought of one other possible option for providing service for Aptera. Perhaps AAA would be willing to work with Aptera on vetting independent garages for Aptera service, like they already do for ice vehicles? I don’t know if they already screen for EV service in general, but I don’t believe they do. AAA is a privately held not-for-profit entity in the U.S., but I do believe there are other similar auto clubs in other countries that could do the same thing, I just don’t know them by name.

[John Malcom]

The first step in such a process would be to define the criteria for vetting. This is a complex technical analysis process. Of course Aptera Engineering and Production are the only ones qualified to do this task. This criteria is usually based on a detailed reliability analysis at the part/system level to determine component failure rates (FR). It then might move to determine the time between failures (MTBF) and how long it would take to make a repair of that kind of failed component. (MTTR). All of these are men (Average) times with a statistical distribution that describes each one. The next level up is at a system component level. Multiple failures at the same time either related or unrelated. The final major thing to determine is how many of each kind of part to have on hand based on the above calculations for one vehicle times the expected number of vehicles that might require repair services. Of course the logistic people have to determine the sources of the parts and the lead time to order then to get them either to a warehouse or the repair facilities in sufficient time and quanties that the customers do not need to wait for a part. In the case of Aptera, it seems this will be a central site with overnight shipping.

Perhaps all of this is part of their plan. perhaps it isn’t. But only very few of us on the forum have the the background knowledge, or the knowledge of Aptera Engineering and Production to legitimately evaluate Aptera’s approach to warranty and repair service until we see more detail.

Lets leave the particular handwringing to the professionals at Aptera until we have enough information for us a nontechnical people to make a valid assessment.

[Peter Jorgensen]

Standard flatbed is apparently 102 inches – So Aptera will fit easily – since the wheel footprint is around 80″. Now, I don’t know if that’s the most cost effective for mass deliveries…

[kerbe2705]

I’m still bucking for either giant electric drones or unicorn-pulled flatbed wagons, but it’s difficult to type while wearing these restraints… ????

[John Malcom]

Ha! Great post. You made my day. Thanks for lightning the mood of this thread We will come visit you in the asylum. Or join you as the case might be

????

[Clifford Williams]

I am hoping to pick mine up using a trailer like that pulled behind my Mercedes Sprinter 3500 RV. It should make a great back up battery. We hope to head for Alaska next year if production is in time. Not sure how strong the sunshine is but almost 24 hours a day should not hurt. A hover craft platform powered off the wheels would be nice as well.

[GLENN ZAJIC]

Hovercraft Clifford? I was picturing skis on front and snowmobile type track driven by the rear wheel. Kind of a triangular track that I bet you have seen on modified vehicles.

[Kelley Winters]

I was a San Diegan for many years and totally look forward to picking up my Aptera in my former home city. In fact, I operated my open-source software venture from the Hera Hub women’s business incubator in Sorrento Valley–just a couple miles from Aptera’s office.

[Leonard Nowak]

Great!

A home coming of sorts!

I only visited the San Diego area and Aptera for the first time in June. Lovely!

[Lilie Bufford]

Honestly, I would (more than willing) want to just pick it up at their physical location, and drive it along the whole coast to my home in Seattle. Getting that experience would be way more exciting than a delivery via truck or freight.

Which begs the question, will aptera provide the option of picking up ones vehicle at the facility or physical location?

[Oz Man]

I remember seeing a remark frim Aptera along the line of, they would allow for people to pick up from the factory, also with the possibility of a discount on the price with the cost savings that would create. (That was quite a ways back, so their thoughts on that might have changed.

[Allan Sjogren]

Lilie: I too would pick up in San Diego and drive up the coast back to Seattle. Question – did you add solar options? I did not and I am wondering if I made a poor decision. My parking area in Shoreline has a lot of trees surrounding it. In late fall, winter, and early sprint the solar would be close to zero.

[Patrick Liebknecht]

I read an article on yahoo the other day

Aptera aims to build 4000 vehicles in 2022 , that means roughly 8000 preorders will go into 2023 and 2024

[John Malcom]

All speculation at this point until Aptera provides official production guidance for 2022/2023 and even that is subject to change. Many variables most of which are out of Aptera’s control In play.

[kerbe2705]

The most recent number is “over 15,000” preorders.

[Joshua Rosen]

They aren’t orders they are reservations that put you on a priority list. Nobody is obligated to buy the car and Aptera isn’t obligated to deliver any particular configuration or to meet the price listed on the reservation. What’s more it’s only a token amount for the reservation. The actual conversion rate to real orders when they are ready to ship is unknown but it won’t be anywhere near 100%, I’d guess 10-20% but I’m just pulling that number out of my ass. If they can really build 4000 in 2022, I’m skeptical but would love to be proved wrong, then your chance of being able to get one next year are pretty good no matter what your reservation number is. Even for reservations that do convert to orders lots of them won’t do it immediately, many people will want to wait until they get the worst bugs out, count me in that camp.

[Ron Ledohowski]

It ends up being “semantics” in the end and previously discussed in depth in some threads already.

BTW, you can check on your “orders” with this link available on the site. It will take you to your configuration and “preorder”.

[Guy SKEER]

For “Delivery”, I would be willing to Make the First and Only Exception to My personal rule to “Never Set Foot in CaCaLand Again”, after I left in 1994. I will Drive Mine back to Seattle/Tacoma Area.

I am particularly well suited to be an Early Owner: Engineering Degree, Aircraft Builder/Owner, Container Crane Maintenance Department Supervisor, MotorCycle/Automobile/Sailboat Racer, Electronic Kit Builder from Tubes to ICs, Computer Builder and More…I can Weld. Test Equipment Galore, From DC to AC even up to 1.3GHz, up to 2500Amps…22KV or less.

I am Confident, having made the transition from Analog to Digital in My Career (1971-2003) several Times over: (Merchant Marine Ships’ Enginerooms, Container Cranes, and in Amateur Radio Operations) – that I will be able to handle almost anything Going Wrong with My Aptera. (I also have worked on Composite Aircraft Fuselage Kits’ Construction as well)

Cue “Dire Straits”, playing the tune “I Want My MTV”<Gritting My Teeth> I Want My Ap ter a!