MemberApril 29, 2022 at 2:36 pm
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 3:04 pm
If anything like that ever made its way to the USA, the price tag would likely be over $10k. But even at that price, it could be tempting. I might buy one for my 16yr old. I just dont see how its relevant in this forum. How is it comparable to an Aptera? Two people can ride on a bicycle, shall we include bicycles in the conversation as well? The Aptera, in all seriousness, is more like a Morgan than a traditional vehicle. That is- a quirky, cool, high-end, compact, SPORTS CAR. It is the pinnacle of efficient design meets style, safety, and acceleration. I cant believe im buying a car that accelerates to 60 in 3.5 seconds, with all of the technology of the Aptera, for around $40k. I cant wait to get mine!
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 3:12 pm
No-one wants to make super cheap minimalist vehicles in the US (econoboxes). This is part of the reason for the average prices being soo high (for all vehicles). I would see a lot of benefit for small econobox EVs but noone is making them in north america. Automakers are telling consumers what they want and collectively deciding to make higher profit expensive products. The Aptera is one of the cheapest EVs and it is hardly as barebones; it is a high performance solar sports car which despite seating is a lot bigger.
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 4:21 am
The actual reasons there are no new econoboxes being sold in the US is simple:
First, used cars are better deals! US car quality has improved so much over the past 30 years that it is no longer unusual for vehicles to reliably last well past 200K miles without needing non-routine maintenance beyond “rubber bits” (belts, mounts) and wheel bearings. Cars don’t rust-out any more, and suspension components often last the life of the vehicle.
Second, the margins on econoboxes are razor thin, meaning little money for advertisement or overhead, and sales commissions are smaller, so dealers don’t really want to sell them, except as a means to get trade-ins. In SoCal, the non-luxury dealers I’ve talked to make more money from their used car lots than they do from new cars!
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 8:41 am
Cars don’t rust out anymore? Where do you live?
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 3:11 pm
Why do you think anyone at this forum is interested in what you would rather have?
I invite you to troll elsewhere.
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 3:16 pm
Then buy five of them. You will have to move to China. That is the only place they are sold
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 3:36 pm
You may get your chance. Personally, it lacks style and I didn’t hear the guy say once that driving it was fun.
I did a independent study in college in 1970 on the cultural effects of the automobile. I read how in the ’20’s and the advent of the car things like sex in cars became a thing along with a little later, drive in theaters.
I looked at the SCCA scene, NASCAR, USAC, FIA formula one, off-roading, etc. etc. and can see and can confirm from personal experience that the automobile is a great play toy.
But other reading during that summer course led me to issues, which were prominent even then, regarding pollution, destruction of urban neighborhoods for roads and the sprawl – the god awful sprawl – that was the outcome of replacing the redline trolly and dense housing with eight lane roadways to the boonies.
One of the authors at the time suggested that the most efficient form of human transportation was the …. wait for it … elevator. This man imagined whole cities integrated into large buildings with automated walkways (like major urban airports have) and elevators with large natural spaces around each centralized hub. Businesses would be on the ground floor, infrastructure in basements and residences on higher floors. Yep, this was a guy who actually had done his homework and his research showed that in the time before the automobile, which also ushered in the concept of ‘zoning’ of property (restricting land use) was something that coincided with the advent of the automobile as the major form of urban transportation.
What I missed at that time was the true depth of influence of the fossil fuel industry which was fostering all this suburbanization through political influence because they viewed each car on the road as an industry asset. The more assets there was on the road, the greater the profit of the industry.
Of course a lot of people benefited from this sea change in how we came to live in our suburban paradises. Hell, I had an uncle in the car business in 1946 (he was the one who died a multi-millionaire when few folks were millionaires.) but realtors, home builders, small county commissioners, road builders, earth movers, timber companies ,etc. etc. all benefited from this suburbanization … which made a car something akin to a necessity. You know, kind of like food and shelter.
This leaves me with the notion that when cars are strictly appliances, they must be efficient but I’m hard pressed to say that any car before the Aptera was ‘efficient.’
However, what the better cars were, were fun.
I don’t think I have to recite the specs for the three-motor Aptera or compare it to the Morgan of British fame to establish the two-seat roadster with three wheels can be a barrel of fun.
That the Aptera promises to be the first, true, mass produced efficient vehicle – even this diminutive Wuling only gets 8 miles/kwh because it is so small and light and also promises to be fun is why I would choose it over five Wulings.
All that said, a vehicle like the Wuling has a place. The local pizza shop, if they run five drivers for delivery, would do well to buy a passel of them and just pay the drivers who use the company vehicle.
I’d buy a pizza from the first company to offer zero emissions pizza delivery.
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 4:35 pm
Drive one for a year and throw it away…what’s the point? 1 Aptera will last way longer that 5 of those.
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by V Pilot.
MemberApril 30, 2022 at 8:02 am
five of those are reality, Aptera still isn’t hahaha
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 6:05 pm
…than what? COVID-19? Diarrhea? Cancer?
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 12:56 pm
In response to the mostly absurd comments I read here:
It’s a GM collaboration. For every Tesla that is sold five of these little cars are sold. At least they’re real and they are scheduled to go on sale in the US this fall. Will any Apteras be sold this year? No.
The main feature of this three wheeled monstrosity is the solar panels. Which if you can wait will give you only 40 miles? Is that even a feature? I’m going to be plugging it in solar panels or not so to me it’s no better than a Bolt. Which by the way is far more comfortable and functional than an Aptera at the same price, because no one is going to be satisfied with the $25k model. And I can take a ride over to the Chevy dealer and buy one this afternoon.
My point is EVs are too fn expensive. I can buy years worth of gas for the premium I will pay to replace my current cars with EVs. What makes sense is a little inexpensive car I can cost justify to do the 60 miles or so of urban runs we do everyday. That would actually save me money, which is a priority for me but perhaps not for the cash rich folks posting here.
The EV problem to be solved is not solar panels, which are just a gimmick. It’s the battery stupid! I was all set to buy a used BMW EV for $15k until I learned a replacement battery costs $16k! As things are now, you buy a new quality EV, Aptera or otherwise, enjoy 8-10 years of driving if you’re lucky, your vehicle depreciates by half or more, your battery is used up and replacing it costs more than your vehicle is worth. You are net 0.
But this little car could change everything. People with ordinary incomes could actually leverage this EV to save money and contribute to improving the environment. Those of us who do not have money to burn on a three wheeled whatever-it-is or a Bolt or a Tesla would be all over a real EV for $5k.
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 1:13 pm
It’s absurd that you continue to post on this forum. Move on please.
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 2:57 pm
Perhaps so. But absurdity deserves more absurdity.
Why don’t you move on from my post? Nothing useful to add? If it bothers you so much, that’s just a bonus.
MemberMay 2, 2022 at 7:11 am
“But absurdity deserves more absurdity.” Right, that’s why there were “mostly absurd comments (you) read here” following your original post. You catch on quick.
Regarding my “nothing useful to add”, I’ve added as much as you so there you go.Regarding my “nothing useful to add”, I’ve added as much as you so there you go.
Now, seeing as how you seem to delight in what bothers me, it would really, really, really bother me if you weren’t here.
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 5:22 pm
I could find nothing about mini EV is coming to the US and per other posts it would never hold up to safety standards. I’m all for smaller commuter vehicle options for the US but without major safety rework and taking a ~25% hit from import tariffs this wont be an option for US consumers.
As to battery degradation requiring replacement statistics don’t support your statements (except the Nissan Leaf). It is simply not a problem with liquid cooled 2170s and if Aptera ever adopts LFP for the shorter range options it will last 50+ years.
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 2:58 pm
I am not sure if Aptera will do five times better than this, but odds are it will be significantly better:
Death box Chinese cars aside (maybe you get to keep the shipping container to charge safely in your garage), I do think we do not have enough low price vehicle options in America.
I was just reading about the RAM 700 available for the Mexican market, and I would buy it in a second. Small pickup with 1630lbs of payload, 880 lbs towing, for 12k USD. Sure it’s a 4 popper, <100 hp, 5 speed manual . So what. It would meet my needs perfectly. Even with potential safety upgrades/reinforcements and “high end” labour, it would still likely be a steal. But they would rather sell us a 55k F-150 I guess.
MemberMay 1, 2022 at 3:10 pm
Those are excellent points and safety is not good enough for me to buy the EV box in spite of the low price.
But I like the bar they set. I like the Aptera too. But without a doubt better, more practical choices are coming.
No comments from anyone on the battery issue? You don’t mind throwing the vehicle away and buying it all over again in 8 years or less? What about materials and environmental issues with lithium-ion? Can you say “peak lithium”?
MemberMay 2, 2022 at 1:31 pm
The battery in my wife’s 2012 Volt is still performing to expectations and my very early Spark EV with a nine-year old battery still outputs the 120 kw’s its motor will use while generating 400+ lb/ft. of torque.
I’m not worried about either ‘making it’ until I take delivery of my Aptera.
I’d almost wager if you just parked those five metal cans outdoors, you might find watching them rust away at least as entertaining as trolling the boards.
There, we talked about your battery concerns and don’t give me guff by saying that those batteries are better than what are being included in EVs now ’cause they cost five times the price of today’s batteries on a kwh basis.
MemberMay 2, 2022 at 1:50 pm
How dare you be so absurd!!! (sarcasm)
MemberMay 18, 2022 at 1:02 pm
Cheap cars like this have always had a fascination. Remember the Yugo (combine Italian engineering with Communist workmanship)? They have just never worked out in the US. As mentioned, a good used car is cheaper and a better option. Simple cars aren’t that much simpler or cheaper than fancier cars. There is just no money in a basic car. My base model Dodge Dart was $17,000 new and there was only $400 in the whole thing. When you added options, the price increased easily to $25,000 and the amount of profit went up to ~$5000. Small cars have about the same number of parts as bigger cars and steel is not that expensive, so a Fiat 500 only costs a few thousand dollars or so less than a full sized car or a pickup truck.
Now on to the Aptera. The Aptera is expensive compared to a mass-produced vehicle from a major car company, but it is reasonably priced for such a low-production vehicle (there are savings in scale). The Aptera is fairly simple compared to a modern ICE car. I like the Aptera because it is the electric vehicle I was waiting for, a car DESIGNED to be an electric vehicle. My first electric lawn mower was a Neuton because that was DESIGNED to be an electric lawn mower. It wasn’t a gas lawn mower with an electric motor stuck on it. They used lighter blades, easier to sharpen. They used a plastic deck that didn’t rust out because they didn’t need to support the weight and vibration of the gas motor, making it easier to transport and making it last longer when I have to mow the grass wet. I loved the single lever to change cut height. The Aptera is designed to be light and aerodynamic because batteries aren’t as energy dense as gasoline. They didn’t start with a mid-sized sedan and try to make it electric. It is the engineering I was waiting for in an electric car.
The other thing that interests me about the Aptera is the self-sufficiency. I am looking at the world today and I see a world where I can’t rely on the government and society to have available food, reliable electricity, safe water (my city can’t get enough chemicals to treat the water properly right now), or education. What do I do if the gas station has no gasoline and the electric grid has rolling blackouts? Strangely enough, the Aptera could be marketed as the ‘homesteader’s car’. I only drive about 15 miles/day. The Aptera will generate enough electricity that I rarely plug it in. Even if I go to the next city, 90 miles round trip, I won’t deplete the battery and the panels themselves may recharge the car in a week or so. I also have some off-grid solar panel systems that could add 10-20 miles/day to the car if I need it. This is a car that doesn’t need infrastructure beyond the road.
As far as the batteries go, technology will continue to advance. As new batteries are developed, you may have to replace the charge controller to use whatever new batteries they have in 5-10 years, but that should hardly be a major problem.
MemberMay 18, 2022 at 4:15 pm
“My first electric lawn mower was a Neuton because that was DESIGNED to be an electric lawn mower.”
My first (and only) electric lawnmower was a “Flymo” I bought back in the 80s. Perfect for very small yards.
MemberMay 19, 2022 at 5:39 am
I’d be interested in something like this. A cheap small car is perfect for my delivery business.