Idea: Fourth Wheel for Europe Aptera

[Konijnerd the Great]

Leon in the forum here came up with a idea to perhaps have a fourth wheel for the Aptera, so it can legally be sold in Europe in mass production. And then also easily qualifies for the EV grants.

(As everyone knows, the Aptera is 23cm too wide for Europe, and even 36cm too long)

I am just thinking out loud here, so perhaps it’s not do-able…But i could forsee two thin tires next to each other, so the aptera is technically a full car with 4 wheels, and is not sacrificing much in it’s current design.

The negatives are that thin tires like that do not exist, so they would need to be mass produced just for Europe Aptera’s. Replacing them would be harder (maybe?) and aerodynamics would probably take a small hit.
But the positives are obvious. no need for laws to change, no need to shave off centimeters in both width and length.

Would be curious what others think of this.

[Joshua Rosen]

I’m sure that there is a minimum distance between wheels, I can’t believe that the regulators would count two thin wheels next to each other as separate wheels. They’ll have to come up with a way to actually put two rear wheels on the vehicle. If they forgo AWD and just offer it in FWD it might be simpler. They might also have to lose a little efficiency but that might not be so bad, suppose it was 12.5 KM/KWh instead of 16 KM/KWh, that would still be better than anything else on the road.

[Konijnerd the Great]

As Qiang has said in the post below, there are already vehicles like this. It could likely be just for regulation purposes.

[Qiang Fu]

In a separate thread, our fellow member George Hughes has suggested an airplane style dual wheel😀:

Will a dually rear wheel Aptera qualifies for EV tax credit

A link to gulfstream for a visual of the dual wheels:

https://www.gulfstream.com/en/

I would expect that with such dual wheel, the front wheels can be brought closer to the body without scarifying the stability. And, icing to the cake: it may just become eligible for the EV tax credit. 😀

[Konijnerd the Great]

thanks, that is a useful read.

[John Read]

If it is classified as a normal EV then it probably needs a front licence plate. Which is obviously a big problem.

[Konijnerd the Great]

that is a very good point, but for EU there might not be a other option. Thank the fossils in the government who would rather see the world burn then changing a law to make the planet greener with aptera.

[George Hughes]

I think that the license plate is not a problem.

There are several solutions. One would be a project the plate on an aerodynamically shaped video screen embedded into the front of the vehicle, or alternatively, a plastic box integrated into the Aptera’s aerodynamics that you just slide into place behind the smooth contours of the plastic.

If someone were really smart, they’d say, screw the prisoners in the penitentiary, go electronic with the car tags that include RFIDs’ that can be read by the cops on their in-car computers and also allows self-driving vehicles to recognize surrounding vehicles.

Add a little bit more to these ‘license devices’ like GPS and you’ve got a lot of traffic data to parse for fun and profit. Imagine, for instance, how you might give that grey sedan an extra-wide berth in rush hour traffic if your car’s computer informs you that this guy has had five wrecks a year for the past 30 years and he’s due for another.

[Konijnerd the Great]

it’s probably a requirement to make the license plate visible to the front, not bend around anything. it will sacrifice aerodynamics, and not by a small amount.

[George Hughes]

If someone can come up with an idea of how to individually track every bit of traffic and in so doing, improve traffic flows AND provide for a tool to raise more money for the vehicle licensing through electronic ‘licenses’ … they will dispense with the car license tag. It will be the next collectable.

[Leon Wubbe]

Great idea 😀

Why do you think that thin tyres like that do not exist? Do you know the size of the current rear wheel?

I also think (but I’m not sure) that there must be a minimum distance between the two rear wheels. That is an aerodynamic disadvantage, but a stability advantage. The further the rear wheels are placed from each other, the narrower the front wheels can be placed having the same stability.

[Dean McManis]

Outside of efficiency, the big reasoning for designing the Aptera with 3 wheels is that it circumvents all of the government red tape that has to be done for normal new vehicle sale. Which wastes a lot of time and money. Even though some EU countries have more flexibility in terms of new vehicle approval, it is probably more likely that Aptera will export over a limited number of 3 wheeled Apteras in 2023 under provisions of low volume manufacturers, to gauge interest and future demand. And then they can just set up a European factory for the production of the next generation (4 wheel, 4 seat) Aptera. Which should already be in production in 2024/25 anyway. Remember, the current Aptera factory plan potentially only needs 23 people to operate and assemble up to 20K EVs a year (with their subsystems outsourced). Maybe they could even partner with Elaphe to build them in Slovenia?

[Leon Wubbe]

That is, when you choose to convert the Aptera to a ‘real’ car, not a three-wheeled motorcycle, which is still a possibility too.

Then the aptera only has to be made smaller and shorter: 2 x 4 meter.

It’s all to Aptera to make the decision 😀

[Dean McManis]

I believe that there is a solid market for the Aptera, just as it is right now (as many thousands of people demonstrate). And once Aptera (the company) establishes themselves by going into production and ramping up from the current EV, then (and not before) is the right time to start looking at making more traditional “cars”.

[Leon Wubbe]

Well, the question was not when Aptera starts looking at making more traditional ‘cars’, but when Aptera can deliver a vehicle that is allowed to ride in the EU (and other countries, outside of the US). That is not the same thing 😉

[my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid]

i said maybe add a small wheel behind ror front of the normal wheel at back, dont know if it legally works. maybe even have the wheel not touch ground for less friction

[my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid]

along with maybe making rear wheel turn for sharper turns and more areodynamic high speed lane changes etc, this small wheel turns too, otherwise too much friction when turning, low grip wheel tire thread, like some metal surface that wont cause sparks. connect it to rear wheel so no suspension of its own

• This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by  my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid.

[Uwe Kall]

Actually, at least in Germany, there are modified vehicles that are used to allow students below legal driving age to drive a car by putting the rear wheels close together so that they count as three wheelers but have the passive safety of a real car. This looks rather funny and much less elegant than the normal unmodified car.

For the front license plate, the most elegant solution would probably be a solution like they did it for the Citroën SM, I think: a clear part of the nose with the flat number plate behind. This could probably even serve as an easily replaceable front body part in case of a very light impact.

[Konijnerd the Great]

that is quite a good idea indeed!

[Leon Wubbe]

Or, use something flexible that can adapt the curves of the car?