Aptera › Community › Aptera Discussions › Internet connectivity and updates
Internet connectivity and updatesPosted by jacob-bunce on November 14, 2021 at 10:56 am
Does the Aptera have internet connectivity? (ie cellular modem)
If yes, can it be removed or disabled?bruce-mengler replied 3 months, 1 week ago 13 Members · 19 Replies
Internet connectivity and updatesbruce-mengler updated 3 months, 1 week ago 13 Members · 19 Replies
joshua-rosenMemberNovember 14, 2021 at 11:11 am
Internet connectivity isn’t optional for any modern car. OTAs require an Internet connection by definition. Navigation requires connectivity and so does service. One thing they should do that Tesla doesn’t do anymore is allow OTAs over cellular. I’ve seen discussions on Tesla forums from people who can’t easily provide WiFi access to their cars, for those people being able to do updates via the cell network would be great.
jacob-bunceMemberNovember 14, 2021 at 5:42 pm
All of that is false. But even assuming features like navigation, etc require internet connectivity, I don’t need or want those features, which leads to my second question… can it be removed or disabled?
I must assume the car can function without connectivity. For example, if driving through a dead zone. Therefore I would simply want to ensure it is always disconnected.
Let’s be clear… I am mainly concerned about forced, factory installed, cellular data service in the car. Wifi is something else entirely and doesn’t bother me as much because I can (presumably) just not select any networks.
RajGiandeepMemberNovember 14, 2021 at 6:34 pm
I would hope you could download maps to be offline for the states you plan or routinely travel in. I don’t wan to pay for another data plan or use data for the car regularly. Perhaps a maker series in the future would cover this.
curtis-cibinelMemberNovember 14, 2021 at 7:52 pm
I would hope that if we don’t have cellular for OTA and navigation that they can use a cellphone for this. As much as they are trying to be minimal I think Joshua is correct that it would be very odd not to have it. Modern cars are generally highly connected devices so if they avoid the use of direct cellular they will need to put substantial design effort into ensuring a good experience to download maps and check for OTA updates.
RussellMemberNovember 14, 2021 at 8:36 pm
I hope connectivity is optional. With so many things tracking, monitoring, listening, I don’t want to add yet another to the list of things that I can’t have nearby when I want to have a private conversation. While we’re on the subject of options, I’d like the self driving hardware to be optional too.
joshua-rosenMemberNovember 15, 2021 at 10:35 am
Internet connectivity can’t be optional, you need OTAs and they need to be able to access the diagnostic information on the car. When the car first starts shipping the software isn’t even going to be half baked, it’s going to be raw batter, it will need to be updated frequently. If you have a problem with the car you aren’t going to be able to take it to a dealer because they won’t have any. Their support is going to look at the logs in the car to see what’s going on, they need to do that remotely and that means Internet access.
jacob-bunceMemberNovember 15, 2021 at 10:55 am
It’s a recursive and inane distinction. As if to say, software requires internet delivery if it requires internet delivery. That is not strictly necessary for software. You can do manual installs with other delivery methods. It all depends on the software architecture and deployment model.
I am a computer scientist, programmer, and cyber security engineer. You have just stated the precise reason why I don’t want internet connectivity:
“When the car first starts shipping the software isn’t even going to be half baked, it’s going to be raw batter, it will need to be updated frequently.”
What you are essentially describing here is a CI/CD software model. In the industry, this model is basically an excuse for bad quality software. I don’t want bad software connected to the internet for security reasons (especially when that software can control my vehicle).
Recognizing the dire state of the software industry, and the fact that these issues can’t be avoided, I choose not to use software features whenever possible. That means no self-driving, navigation, cloud music, etc.
The fundamental point here is that the car can function in the middle of the desert with no cell service. That is exactly the level of software functionality I want. Nothing more.
Worst case, maybe I can install a Faraday layer inside the shell.
david-b-bealMemberJanuary 8, 2022 at 6:16 pm
Im with you on this. I’d be “ok” if I could enable long enough when I’m not driving it, to do updates but I’d rather update via USB download via my computer where I have full control.
RileyMemberNovember 15, 2021 at 7:36 pm
I am sure it will be easy to find and remove the data antenna. Hopefully it isn’t the same antenna that supplies radio. I understand the argument for privacy and freedom. There is also an argument for important updates for safety. Were all adults and understand the risks.
FranMemberDecember 18, 2021 at 4:22 pm
I guess the correct original question should have been, “Will the Aptera have internet disconectivity?” Guy SKEER said in another forum section last week:
“For a WOMAN, a CellPhone is Actually a Sceptre – It Makes Her QUEEN of ALLLLL She Surveys.
But, For a MAN, a Cellphone is but LEASH! I Don’t Need No Steeenkin’Leash!”
I agree with him and I don’t carry around a steeenkin leash (cell phone). And I cycle in my velomobile many miles away from home almost every day, and still don’t carry a cell phone. I drive a 22 year old car (Honda Insight) and a 19 year old car (Prius), nothing online. I reserved an Aptera but if its going to be a steeenkin leash, I may give up the idea, or figure a way to disconnect from the leash. Here’s what I’m willing to do.
I have wifi in my house just inside from where I have the best sun exposure. The car will sit there when I’m not driving it. If updates need to be done there are plenty of hours of connectivity. If I decide I don’t like automatic updates because the factory is messing with stuff I don’t want changed, I’ll move the wifi or park out in the field. I am not interested in carrying a cell phone just to lose my privacy. That’s why I don’t carry one now. Not because I am doing anything I am ashamed of, but because my Bible tells me about the coming end times when Christians and Patriots will be hunted down like criminals, and I want my privacy when that happens. In fact I may move the wifi anyway because someone might be able to tell when I am home when the car is parked, unless I am out in my pedal vehicle (picture in my profile, yellow contraption in front of me). I don’t want self driving, I know about uninterruptible autopilot on airliners that can be taken over from the ground, and if they can do it to an airplane, they can do it to an “online” car, which is why I would have never got a car with onstar. No phone, no “online,” no leash. If that means no Aptera or any other new car, then I pray my present cars last a long time.
So, I guess I can take off my tinfoil hat and go to bed now.
trevor-andersonMemberSeptember 16, 2022 at 6:21 am
I have an unlimited plan with 50gb free 5G per month. I typically only burn through about 15gb/month.
Most car companies only let you buy cellular service through the car maker or through their “brand partners”. I know that most companies need to prove “recurring income / subscriptions” in order to be “worth more” when they IPO but I hope we can use our own sims and service.
I would love to tether my car to my cellular plan in lieu of paying another subscription (which I wont 😀).
joseph-wallMemberSeptember 16, 2022 at 7:14 am
Yeah, being tied to a subscription service or specific cell plan just to use the car and get OTA updates is definitely not green or sustainable. But what is sustainable? Simple wifi or bluetooth internet sharing. I can always share off my phone’s data plan, no matter what cell tech is being used, and I don’t have to upgrade the car’s head unit. It’s absolutely unnecessary to have two separate ones. The car can easily connect to wifi at home for OTA updates and to my phone’s wifi for everything else.
trevor-andersonMemberSeptember 16, 2022 at 8:06 am
I figured that large updates would be over wifi like tesla’s; my Hyundai head unit was updated via an USB drive from my home computer and that was an absolute mess.
Chris Anthony has talked several times about the “connected fleet” of Aptera vehicles, so I assume by default that there will be some LTE connectivity built in and I just want the option to use my own.
RileyMemberSeptember 16, 2022 at 7:22 am
I think aptera will just connect to wifi from home in order to update the car (same as tesla) that would be fine. I see no need to buy vehicle specific internet but I am one to talk i just paid $100 for a year of premium connectivity for my model 3.
trevor-andersonMemberSeptember 16, 2022 at 8:20 am
Yea I am a cheapskate, Aptera speaks to me at that level, and would love the option.
give me an option:
– remote control of vehicle functions, free for x years, then $5/month
– LTE, $8 month
– Premium package, remote control and LTE, 10$
Lets frugal POS like myself save $5/month by using my own LTE SIM card and they still get their subscription.
michael-thwaiteMemberSeptember 16, 2022 at 1:04 pm
I’m happy to have a $99/year plan like a wearable. Being able to check charge state, location, remote preconditioning, live charger status, control locks/activation/deactivation, etc. whilst I’m out and about is useful to me.
I feel conflicted on things like streaming audio and definitely video though. I’m rather of the opinion that all services are either all onboard and very comprehensive like Tesla with LTE/5G and a price tag to match or, there’s absolutely nothing at all and it needs CarPlay/AndroidAuto to do anything, even navigation. Why? Well, I don’t really want a half-way house with OKish nav, sort of passible streaming but not great, etc. Plus I’d rather that they do an amazing solid CarPlay integration and then move onto other things.
HeliumHeadMemberDecember 7, 2022 at 10:42 pm
I haven’t heard anything about the manner in which software updates will be managed for the vehicle. Via cellular network? Would that include maps and recommended routes to destination?
RileyMemberDecember 8, 2022 at 1:09 am
Definitely over the air updates but I don’t recall if that would require wifi connection or can be done via cellular data. I imagine they will copy tesla which requires wifi to update.
bruce-menglerMemberDecember 8, 2022 at 4:58 am
One approach I have personally used was to download the new software configuration file to a thumb drive, sneaker net the thumb drive to the vehicle, plug the thumb drive into the vehicle, & proceed with the software update from there. I thought was a very workable solution.